Canon's Advisory a lot of double-talk in my opinion.

Started Apr 24, 2012 | Discussions
DFPanno
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Canon's Advisory a lot of double-talk in my opinion.
Apr 24, 2012

The more I read it the less satisfied I am.

Either the camera has a problem or it doesn't. Either it should be looked at or it shouldn't.

Why should the customer be left to message boards to decide what should be done if anything?

Why the "it's not a problem but we are happy to look at it". If there is no problem you don't need to see it and doing so costs you unnecessary money.

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GaryJP
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The more I read it the more it confirms what some of us have been saying.
In reply to DFPanno, Apr 24, 2012

The sky is not falling.

But there are neurotics who tend to blag a blackhead up into a tumour. And doctors look at them too.

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DFPanno
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I did not suggest the sky is falling..........
In reply to GaryJP, Apr 24, 2012

and your use of that expression trivializes my concern.

Canon should just state "your camera has a problem and needs service" or "there is no problem and happy shooting".

What is so complex about that?

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bhollis
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Re: Canon's Advisory a lot of double-talk in my opinion.
In reply to DFPanno, Apr 24, 2012

DFPanno wrote:

The more I read it the less satisfied I am.

Either the camera has a problem or it doesn't. Either it should be looked at or it shouldn't.

Why should the customer be left to message boards to decide what should be done if anything?

Why the "it's not a problem but we are happy to look at it". If there is no problem you don't need to see it and doing so costs you unnecessary money.

Canon's response seems very reasonable to me. They're saying that although the phenomenon exists in cameras with certain serial numbers, it occurs only in very dark environments and is unlikely to have any noticeable real-world effect. All of which lines up perfectly with the testing I've done with my 5D3.

But for those who are dissatisfied or continue to have concerns, they're giving you the option to send the camera in to them, and they'll then inspect it, and presumably fix it, free of charge.

What more do you want? Seems to me the only other thing Canon could do would be to send out the light leak police to round up all of our 5D3s.

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GaryJP
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Re: I did not suggest the sky is falling..........
In reply to DFPanno, Apr 24, 2012

DFPanno wrote:

and your use of that expression trivializes my concern.

Canon should just state "your camera has a problem and needs service" or "there is no problem and happy shooting".

What is so complex about that?

The problem is that the seriousness of many problems is subjective.

Some people go to the doctor for a cold, which he can't cure. Other avoid him for double pneumonia, which he perhaps can.

And judging from posts here, more of those people who don't own the camera and prefer their old Mark II's or their Nikons would seem to be wanting to send it in than those who do.

So I assume you own the camera and are deeply concerned? Then send it in.

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DFPanno
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Nonsense............
In reply to GaryJP, Apr 24, 2012

A $3500.00 camera is a precision instrument.

Whether or not it is working correctly is NOT subjective. It is either working according to design or it ain't.

Relativism is fine for art; not instrumentation.

The issue is not my personal concerns or "comfort level".

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zlatko
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Re: Canon's Advisory a lot of double-talk in my opinion.
In reply to bhollis, Apr 24, 2012

Works correctly for me too. No problem at all. The camera is a delight to use.

bhollis wrote:

All of which lines up perfectly with the testing I've done with my 5D3.

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DFPanno
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Re: Canon's Advisory a lot of double-talk in my opinion.
In reply to bhollis, Apr 24, 2012

Perhaps you are responding to someone else's post?

My issue is not the potential problem per se. It most likely will not effect my photography in any way. My problem is that I feel that Canon should simply state whether there is a problem or not.

The way it's worded leaves much open to interpretation.

Four years from now I will try to sell me camera to someone who will want the serial number.

"Is it one of the ones with the "leak""?

"Yes"

"Did you send it in"?

"Gosh; no; The fellas over at dpreview told me to stop being a neurotic tool and to go out and take pictures......."

I think they could have worded it in a more definitive/decisive fashion.

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DFPanno
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Re: Canon's Advisory a lot of double-talk in my opinion.
In reply to zlatko, Apr 24, 2012

Agree on all counts.

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chironNYC
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Re: Canon's Advisory a lot of double-talk in my opinion.
In reply to DFPanno, Apr 24, 2012

Canon is going out of their way to address the minority of photographers who frequently take pictures of their lens caps. Those are the only ones affected by this "problem."

I think Canon has gone beyond the call of duty on this one party because they provide solid customer service and partly they know they have a spectacular camera in the 5d3 ad they want to keep its reputation completely unsullied.

Bravo for them.

DFPanno wrote:

Perhaps you are responding to someone else's post?

My issue is not the potential problem per se. It most likely will not effect my photography in any way. My problem is that I feel that Canon should simply state whether there is a problem or not.

The way it's worded leaves much open to interpretation.

Four years from now I will try to sell me camera to someone who will want the serial number.

"Is it one of the ones with the "leak""?

"Yes"

"Did you send it in"?

"Gosh; no; The fellas over at dpreview told me to stop being a neurotic tool and to go out and take pictures......."

I think they could have worded it in a more definitive/decisive fashion.

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Peter

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DFPanno
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Re: Canon's Advisory a lot of double-talk in my opinion.
In reply to chironNYC, Apr 24, 2012

"Canon is going out of their way to address the minority of photographers who frequently take pictures of their lens caps. Those are the only ones affected by this "problem.""

Your rhetoric and use of italics is designed to trivialize my concern; why?

"I think Canon has gone beyond the call of duty on this one party because they provide solid customer service and partly they know they have a spectacular camera in the 5d3 ad they want to keep its reputation completely unsullied."

It may not be your intention but this reeks of fanboyism.

For your information I have spent thousand and thousands of dollars with Canon. The the purchase of my 5D3 I plan on spending more.

Incidentally, I was offered a D800 yesterday by I nice man I meet on the Nikon forum and i turned it down; in part over my enthusiasm for Canon and their products.

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bhollis
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Re: Canon's Advisory a lot of double-talk in my opinion.
In reply to DFPanno, Apr 24, 2012

DFPanno wrote:

Perhaps you are responding to someone else's post?

My issue is not the potential problem per se. It most likely will not effect my photography in any way. My problem is that I feel that Canon should simply state whether there is a problem or not.

The way it's worded leaves much open to interpretation.

Four years from now I will try to sell me camera to someone who will want the serial number.

"Is it one of the ones with the "leak""?

"Yes"

"Did you send it in"?

"Gosh; no; The fellas over at dpreview told me to stop being a neurotic tool and to go out and take pictures......."

I think they could have worded it in a more definitive/decisive fashion.

No, I was responding to you. Looks like you just don't "do nuance."

I think Canon responded as definitively as they could. They acknowledged the phenomenon, but stated that it's extremely unlikely to have any real-world effect, which I think is completely accurate.

If Canon had denied the issue entirely, they'd be called liars, and even more videos would be posted on the web of midnight shooting scenarios with folks shining flashlights into their cameras. OTOH, if they'd said this is definitely a problem that needs fixing, they'd be overstating the issue, and causing a lot of cameras to be returned to them unnecessarily.

You appear to be a big boy, and fully capable of deciding for yourself whether you consider this a "problem" that needs fixing. If you do, or you're concerned about resale, then send it in. If not, enjoy your new camera.

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GaryJP
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Re: Not at all.
In reply to DFPanno, Apr 24, 2012

As I said:

So I assume you own the camera and are deeply concerned? Then send it in.

Otherwise you are just trash talking.

DFPanno wrote:

A $3500.00 camera is a precision instrument.

Whether or not it is working correctly is NOT subjective. It is either working according to design or it ain't.

Relativism is fine for art; not instrumentation.

The issue is not my personal concerns or "comfort level".

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DFPanno
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Re: Canon's Advisory a lot of double-talk in my opinion.
In reply to bhollis, Apr 24, 2012

I made a simple statement:

I think Canon could have made a more definitive/decisive statement.

You have interpreted my simple statement in a manner that does not reflect the essence of my concern.

I guess we have different interpretations of "nuance" which is fine by me.

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DFPanno
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Re: Not at all.
In reply to GaryJP, Apr 24, 2012

In fact I do own the camera. Concerned; but not deeply concerned.

Not sure how "trash talking" applies to any aspect of this conversation but that is probably a refection of a different understanding of the idioms definition.

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BillyGoatGruff
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Don’t bother.....
In reply to DFPanno, Apr 24, 2012

DFPanno wrote:

A $3500.00 camera is a precision instrument.

Whether or not it is working correctly is NOT subjective. It is either working according to design or it ain't.

Relativism is fine for art; not instrumentation.

The issue is not my personal concerns or "comfort level".

You are absolutely right. Canon’s specifications for the 5D3 state (presumably) that light should not leak into the body, period. And there are 5D3 bodies that allow light to leak in. That means they are not functioning to spec. And since it’s a phenomenon that doesn’t exist in all 5D3 bodies, it’s automatically a defect.

I can understand how two units of the same engine model can deviate slightly in horsepower, as engines are complex devices. But a camera body’s case (i.e. without the electronics inside) is an exceedingly simple object that should not display variation from unit to unit.

Unfortunately, you’re wasting your time trying to explain this to the people who frequent this forum. They don’t understand this, conceptually.

They’re the kind of people that exist in large enough numbers to allow companies to dupe their customers.

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BillyGoatGruff
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Here we go again....
In reply to chironNYC, Apr 24, 2012

chironNYC wrote:

Canon is going out of their way to address the minority of photographers who frequently take pictures of their lens caps. Those are the only ones affected by this "problem."

I think Canon has gone beyond the call of duty on this one party because they provide solid customer service and partly they know they have a spectacular camera in the 5d3 ad they want to keep its reputation completely unsullied.

Bravo for them.

Here we go again with that “lens cap” crap. Get off it, dude.

It’s not just with the lens cap. It’s in very dark environments.

Jesus Christ, man, even Canon doesn’t say it only occurs with the lens cap on. Unlike you, they have the sense to recognize and admit that this phenomenon occurs in very dark environments.

The lens cap is just the easiest way to demonstrate the existence of a light leak.

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DFPanno
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Re: Don’t bother.....
In reply to BillyGoatGruff, Apr 24, 2012

Thank you.

I have a very substantial education ( doctorate and a three-year post-doc) largely based on a fairly profound understanding of engineering.

I have spent much of my life handling VERY expensive pieces of precision equipment so while not an expert photographer I have a strong understanding of the characteristics that equipment should (ideally) exhibit.

I read your post and I agree with you too!

(Group hug here)

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BillyGoatGruff
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Re: Canon's Advisory a lot of double-talk in my opinion.
In reply to bhollis, Apr 24, 2012

I think Canon responded as definitively as they could. They acknowledged the phenomenon, but stated that it's extremely unlikely to have any real-world effect, which I think is completely accurate.

If that’s what you think, then you really don’t understand principles of engineering very much.

As DFPanno stated earlier, a device either works to spec or it doesn’t. Obviously, a series of 5D3 units haven’t been functioning to spec. Just because images in uncommon shooting conditions aren’t coming out grossly over- or under-exposed doesn’t mean that it’s not a deviation from spec that shouldn’t be rectified.

If Canon had denied the issue entirely, they'd be called liars, and even more videos would be posted on the web of midnight shooting scenarios with folks shining flashlights into their cameras. OTOH, if they'd said this is definitely a problem that needs fixing, they'd be overstating the issue, and causing a lot of cameras to be returned to them unnecessarily.

You appear to be a big boy, and fully capable of deciding for yourself whether you consider this a "problem" that needs fixing. If you do, or you're concerned about resale, then send it in. If not, enjoy your new camera.

Don’t you see what’s going on here?

If Canon made ALL of the 5D3s to manufacturing and performance specs, then we wouldn’t even be having to determine whether or not the light leak is significant.

Some (idiots) say that the light leak only occurs with the lens cap on. Others say it doesn’t (and there are videos to prove that they’re correct). What’s important here is that it’s a debate that shouldn’t even be taking place. We are debating the significance of a light leak that shouldn’t be there.

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michaelcheddar
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sigh
In reply to DFPanno, Apr 24, 2012

nothingtoseehere.jpeg

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