Is the SD1m the "poor mans" Nikon D800

Started Apr 22, 2012 | Discussions
billt1970
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Re: Is the SD1m the "poor mans" Nikon D800
In reply to steven_k, Apr 30, 2012

Allright; only 9 more posts to put this miserable thread to rest.

BT

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Gary Dean Mercer Clark
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Re: a different tract 2/2
In reply to Richard Franiec, Apr 30, 2012

Well start an AKU fan club Richard!

Richard Franiec wrote:

DMillier wrote:

Aku

I'm somebody who has had his fair share of run ins with the fanboys over the years largely because although I do use the technology and even enjoy the results, I do prefer truth over tribalism and there is still a bit too much of that around here.

I certainly appreciate the points you are making but I think there is a little problem. You are probably the first victim of the attacks but given the forcefulness by which you make your points, you ought to expect that. Unfortunately when the attacks come in, you don't hold the moral highground, instead you declare all out war at the first hint of criticism. I find that a bit provocative and even though I have long been the whipping around here, I can see that even if you are 100% right in your arguments, you make it a bit too easy for the fanboys to dismiss you as a troll. Tactically, a little more patience would be better, difficult as it can be...

David, I do remember your run ins with basically the same crowd now attacking Aku Anka. Some of the attempts trying to discredit you were even exported to Canon Pro forum.

Basically the same people were acting then and now. This behavior really is bordering with fanaticism, the incurable kind. Some of their (fanatics) religious stupor was tamed by introduction of $9700.00 SD1 but this is already conveniently forgotten since the price of SD1 dropped and they are back in full force.

Fanboys here will always try to dismiss as a troll anyone who is trying to discuss the issues indicating possible weaknesses of Sigma product, Foveon chip in particular. This is not typical for this forum only, it happens on any other brand forum.

Sadly, there is no middle ground to reach in any of such discussions no matter how interesting or revealing it could be.

I just want Aku Anka to know that his arguments are well taken and they encourage me to do some research on my own. I'm sure that I'm not alone in such approach.

Cheers

Richard

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Gary Dean Mercer Clark
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Re: Is the SD1m the "poor mans" Nikon D800
In reply to billt1970, Apr 30, 2012

Same old suspects at the scene of the crime Bill. Nothing has changed over the many years. I see the same old arguments over and over again regarding foveon technology and it is still here after ten years.

Thanks to foveon technology, my work continues to sell. My foveon images consistently outsell all of the Canon images that I've created over the last 10 years. So I'm benefiting from the " foveon look" and you are one of the few people that have actually seen my large works in person! When are you coming back to Miami? We should see each other again. Maybe I'll take you out to the Everglades for a shoot. That is alway fun!

billt1970 wrote:

Allright; only 9 more posts to put this miserable thread to rest.

BT

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Gary Mercer

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Gary Dean Mercer Clark
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Re: Is the SD1m the "poor mans" Nikon D800
In reply to billt1970, Apr 30, 2012

I forgot to ask---have you heard from Elena? I haven't heard a thing from her in a year or so. You know I traveled to Cuba with her on a photoshoot for a magazine.

billt1970 wrote:

Allright; only 9 more posts to put this miserable thread to rest.

BT

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Gary Mercer

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jrdigitalart
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Re: You are no expert and are just trolling for kicks in this forum.
In reply to FritsThomsen, Apr 30, 2012

FritsThomsen wrote:

Are you really a North Korean rocket scientist ????

That would explain their latest debacle!
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Please visit my gallery at http://www.pbase.com/jrdigitalart/

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Gary Dean Mercer Clark
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Re: You are no expert and are just trolling for kicks in this forum.
In reply to FritsThomsen, Apr 30, 2012

FritsThomsen wrote:

Aku Ankka wrote:

gary mercer wrote:

Your responses are getting more ridiculous. You said that you are a lousy photographer. Enough said. If you knew anything about Lin Evans--you would know that he has been involved in beta testing for photographic products and in product development.

And? I didn't know beta testers are technolog experts. He has shown many times already he is absolutely clueless on the topic - like he doesn't understand how different tone curves affect the dynamic range.

Your claim that Dpreview.com doesn't do proper dynamic range testing?

Yes. They measure dynamic range for some arbitrary tone curves. Do you know what a tone curve is and how it affects dynamic range?

Wow--so once again---you know more than professional photographers and some of the top photo testing experts in the industry? Your insults don't carry weight here.

Who do I insult? DPR? You? Sigma?

You do insult me with your ad hominem attack.

I'll tell you what you are. A troll and an armchair photographer--someone who does nothing but criticize other people and isn't even competent to shoot a decent photograph. That is pathetic.

Would you please point out one place where I criticize someone before that someone has launched an ad hominem attack on me. You are nothing but a bully and a troll, incapablle of civilized discusssion.

It never fails to amase me ...to see another troll cracking ... You´re loosing it dear Anku:)
Are you really a North Korean rocket scientist ????

Frits---Why does Anku hide behind an anonymous online name?

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Lin Evans
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Probably my last post.....
In reply to DMillier, Apr 30, 2012

Hi David,

The constant bickering and arguing with people who come to the Sigma forum and give advice (Read his first post on this) when they have absolutely zero experience with the equipment has made me sick of the entire experience.

I wouldn't dream of telling someone that a camera I had never touched, nor probably even "seen" was not the one for them to consider:

Unfortunately for Sigma, if one can afford to buy SD1, one should not buy it, but just about anything from any competing brand in the same price range (apart from Leica which has "not too good" digital cameras to put it politely) - at worst you may lose little bit of resolution (16-18 Mp APS-C or FF, or win some in case of D800), but also get far superior DR, much lower noise, far more accurate colors, far better camera functionality and ergonomics and far more lenses to choose from.

I'm sorry, but in my opinion the guy's actions brand him as simply an uninformed troll. I don't know any other way to describe it. Frankly, I'm tired of all the bickering with and explanations to uninformed, pseudo scientific non-photographers who post under pseudonyms and hide behind their claims of superior technological knowledge while sniping at people who have made their livings with a camera for years. I could care less about his opinion of Sigma or Leica. How the hell can one even have an "opinion" about "functionality and ergonomics" when they have never had the instrument in their hands? I'm absolutely amazed that you can't seem to see through this BS.

Anyway it's been fun, but having posted at dPReview since the year it began, I think my clock here has about run down, so I'll bid everyone goodbye and good luck in the future with whichever instrument they choose to make their images.

Best regards,

Lin

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SigmaChrome
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Re: Is the SD1m the "poor mans" Nikon D800
In reply to steven_k, Apr 30, 2012

No.
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Vitée

Capture all the light and colour!

http://www.pbase.com/vitee/galleries

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Gary Dean Mercer Clark
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Re: Probably my last post.....
In reply to Lin Evans, Apr 30, 2012

Lin---my dear friend. Don't go away. Don't let these trolls drive you away.

Lin Evans wrote:
Hi David,

The constant bickering and arguing with people who come to the Sigma forum and give advice (Read his first post on this) when they have absolutely zero experience with the equipment has made me sick of the entire experience.

I wouldn't dream of telling someone that a camera I had never touched, nor probably even "seen" was not the one for them to consider:

Unfortunately for Sigma, if one can afford to buy SD1, one should not buy it, but just about anything from any competing brand in the same price range (apart from Leica which has "not too good" digital cameras to put it politely) - at worst you may lose little bit of resolution (16-18 Mp APS-C or FF, or win some in case of D800), but also get far superior DR, much lower noise, far more accurate colors, far better camera functionality and ergonomics and far more lenses to choose from.

I'm sorry, but in my opinion the guy's actions brand him as simply an uninformed troll. I don't know any other way to describe it. Frankly, I'm tired of all the bickering with and explanations to uninformed, pseudo scientific non-photographers who post under pseudonyms and hide behind their claims of superior technological knowledge while sniping at people who have made their livings with a camera for years. I could care less about his opinion of Sigma or Leica. How the hell can one even have an "opinion" about "functionality and ergonomics" when they have never had the instrument in their hands? I'm absolutely amazed that you can't seem to see through this BS.

Anyway it's been fun, but having posted at dPReview since the year it began, I think my clock here has about run down, so I'll bid everyone goodbye and good luck in the future with whichever instrument they choose to make their images.

Best regards,

Lin

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Gary Mercer

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Gary Dean Mercer Clark
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Re: herin lies the problem
In reply to 1chaz, Apr 30, 2012

You are right about one thing. Its all about the end photograph and the SD1M can do that very nicely!

1chaz wrote:

different views reach different conclusions
and never the twain shall meet

1. Photographers are looking at final output and most good photographers can get the most out of their chosen tools through proper setup and use of the camera and also later in pp wringing/massaging out the last bits needed for great photographs.
It's all about the PHOTOGRAPH

2. Technology people only see tests, test charts, graphs and hard data as the empirical evidence of a good camera. they are not interested in the photograph/output just the technology that is there. you cannot argue with the facts.
It's all about the TECHNOLOGY

Now photographers all know all this plays a part in the picture but it is not the whole story, there are many factors involved that a technology approach is blind to.

Ok so what the tested sd1 dynamic range isn't at the top of the heap it's still good enough to make fantastic prints that most people would be hard pressed to point out with prints vs a higher dynamic range photograph. It takes a balance of many aspects to create a great photograph and a good photographer knows how to do this.

lets use the engine analogy: one can go by specs and know the capabilities of the engine hp, torque, torque curve etc. but just knowing that doesn't mean squat in real world usage there is trans and rear gearing, tires, suspension, car weight, road conditions, cars purpose etc. all add up to the final car and it's characteristics. Let's not forget the most important aspect the driver's capabilities and their familiarity with the car and how it handles. A fast car with a bad or inexperienced driver will normally lose to a more experienced good driver with a slower car.

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1chaz
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being correct on 1 point dosn't make you right
In reply to Aku Ankka, Apr 30, 2012

Aku Ankka wrote:

aku you have only made 1 valid point here and that is the sd1 dynamic range is less than the d800 bravo all the rest of your talking is just the same old stuff all here already know and still manage to make great photographs with their camera of choice.

For most real world items Bayer CFA sensors can resolve 90% or more of the Nyquist. Your emphasis on "black and white test charts" is not correct. As almost all light hitting the sensor has quite wide spectrum, and because there is a finely calculated overlap in the color filter responses, the resolution of Bayer CFA sensors is quite consistent regardless of the image. Only very extreme cases, like narrow spectrum red on red textures show clear decrease in resoluton, but such situations are very rare in the real world (especially outdoors where the sun provides wide spectrum of light to be reflected of the subjects).

very nice technical explanation is this from your knowledge base or some book ?not sure you are quoting it right though. Bayer is still resolving from interpolated/made up data ( that is the fact ) no matter how well they do it unless its black and white where all pixels come into play.

Please lurk some more.

You remind me of the little bully/know it all on the playground, likes to pick on everyone or put down everyone but when you get it back cries foul.

I have not bashed in any way form or shape. The SD1 is an overprices one-trick pony. This is a my opinion based on evidence. It has very good resolution, but that's it. I've even listed lots of drawbacks in the product, yet almost none of them were contested in any way. Instead people like you start protecting their holy cult by bullying.

That is your opinion but you are wrong as most on here that have the sd1 have tried to tell you. Some who make their living that way and have forgot more than you will ever know about photography. This is what cameras are for taking pictures/photographs.

One trick pony evidently you haven't been looking at the photos put on here by many, great night shots, 800 iso etc. great for foveron which is what is used here. which in the context of this fourm is all that matters.

I don't think you have said anything new here. scientific fact doesn't tell the whole picture something you seem oblivious to. People already know the drawbacks listed and in spite of them get great photos.

calling something an over priced one trick pony that you have no real world conception of or have ever used is not bashing in your book . I see said the blind man. Talking about the dynamic range disparity however would not have been bashing because that premise is based in fact whereas your opinion/conjecture of one trick pony not worth the money is based on no facts.
and buy the way what is it you use ?

If you consider stating opinions that you don't like as being bashing, please keep on lurking as writing won't do your mental health any good.

so when you say something it's opinion when someone differs from your opinion or says their opinion its bullying Hmmm there seems to be a trend here; dealing with someone who cant see the forest for the trees yes i agree a fruitless exercise

Actually you are correct you did not say that and I apologize that was someone else.

you call it a overpriced one trick pony

I'm sorry I keep forgetting you are not about making pictures.

I like taking photos, but I'm not good at it. I like the technology too. These are not mutually exclusive.

No but one is there to serve the other the camera tec is just the tool to serve the shooter.

Maybe If you concentrated more on Photography than the tec. your skills would improve. Taking pictures is not the same as making photographs. I know not relevant .

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