sigma 30mm vs kit lens...not even close

Started Apr 20, 2012 | Discussions
dumokun80
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sigma 30mm vs kit lens...not even close
Apr 20, 2012

for the wall shot
center focus
center metering
no steadyshot
cloudy WB
wind no a factor
tripod, about 20ft away
processed from raw with only CA & lens correction

as u can see even at it's widest the sigma has overall better IQ than the kit at f11 which to me looked sharpest corner to corner

between this and my sel50f18 the kit will be collecting dust

f2.8 vs f4

f2.8 vs f11

in this one the 30mm is slightly fuzzy in the right corner but that's gone by f5.6

Panasonic Lumix DMC-F5
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wll
wll
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Re: sigma 30mm vs kit lens...not even close
In reply to dumokun80, Apr 20, 2012

Boy, oh Boy that 30mm Sigma sure does shine ... I get mine on Monday !

wll

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yairmarx
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Re: sigma 30mm vs kit lens...not even close
In reply to wll, Apr 20, 2012

how is the 30mm sigma lens while shooting video?

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Scubadu
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Re: sigma 30mm vs kit lens...not even close
In reply to yairmarx, Apr 20, 2012

The majority of my 18-55 lens photos are taken at F/5.6 and F/8. Do you have any photo comparisons at those apertures.

Thanks!

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dumokun80
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Re: sigma 30mm vs kit lens...not even close
In reply to Scubadu, Apr 20, 2012

I actually did the wall shot with the kit at 4,5.6,8,11

f8 and f11 on the kit was about the same, f11 maybe a hair sharper

the reason I didn't post those was because they looked so bad compared to the sigma I only posted the ones that were somewhat comparable

Scubadu wrote:

The majority of my 18-55 lens photos are taken at F/5.6 and F/8. Do you have any photo comparisons at those apertures.

Thanks!

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Jimmy jang Boo
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Your 1855 is below par...
In reply to dumokun80, Apr 20, 2012

That's what I suspect. Some of them look OOF.

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nexslomo
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Re: sigma 30mm vs kit lens...not even close
In reply to dumokun80, Apr 20, 2012

I did the same test and found little difference. Either you have a bad copy or you aren't using the kit lens properly. I have 20x30 poster prints from the kit that are tack sharp.

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dumokun80
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Re: sigma 30mm vs kit lens...not even close
In reply to nexslomo, Apr 20, 2012

nexslomo wrote:

I did the same test and found little difference. Either you have a bad copy or you aren't using the kit lens properly. I have 20x30 poster prints from the kit that are tack sharp.

mind sharing the results? I'm suspecting I have a bad kit as well

thanks

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dumokun80
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Re: sigma 30mm vs kit lens...not even close
In reply to nexslomo, Apr 20, 2012

nexslomo wrote:

I did the same test and found little difference. Either you have a bad copy or you aren't using the kit lens properly. I have 20x30 poster prints from the kit that are tack sharp.

also please expand on how to "properly" use kit lens

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Miwok
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Re: sigma 30mm vs kit lens...not even close
In reply to dumokun80, Apr 20, 2012

For me, I'm not going to buy a fixed 30mm f2.8, because I'm sure than soon, Sony will offer a 35mm 1.8 and probably a fast zoom 2.8.
So I just prefer waiting few more months.
I don't need a 16, 19, 24, 30, 35 and 50mm, 3 of them is enough for me
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maccam
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Re: sigma 30mm vs kit lens...not even close
In reply to dumokun80, Apr 20, 2012

I actually did the wall shot with the kit at 4,5.6,8,11

f8 and f11 on the kit was about the same, f11 maybe a hair sharper

the reason I didn't post those was because they looked so bad compared to the sigma I only posted the ones that were somewhat comparable

Thanks for your biased comments

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Nell27
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Re: sigma 30mm vs kit lens...not even close
In reply to Miwok, Apr 20, 2012

Miwok wrote:

For me, I'm not going to buy a fixed 30mm f2.8, because I'm sure than soon, Sony will offer a 35mm 1.8 and probably a fast zoom 2.8.
So I just prefer waiting few more months.
I don't need a 16, 19, 24, 30, 35 and 50mm, 3 of them is enough for me

There's only one problem with your way of thinking.

Given Sony's track record, if they announced a new lens today, it would be at least a year before you could actually buy one.

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Sagiluck
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Re: sigma 30mm vs kit lens...not even close
In reply to Nell27, Apr 21, 2012

Nell27 wrote:

Miwok wrote:

For me, I'm not going to buy a fixed 30mm f2.8, because I'm sure than soon, Sony will offer a 35mm 1.8 and probably a fast zoom 2.8.
So I just prefer waiting few more months.
I don't need a 16, 19, 24, 30, 35 and 50mm, 3 of them is enough for me

There's only one problem with your way of thinking.

Given Sony's track record, if they announced a new lens today, it would be at least a year before you could actually buy one.

say Sony really release some with faster lens with that sigma FL like a year later, but heck.. the $200 lens already served well enough for justify the cost;not to mention resale value

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wll
wll
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Re: sigma 30mm vs kit lens...not even close
In reply to Nell27, Apr 21, 2012

Nell27 wrote:

Miwok wrote:

For me, I'm not going to buy a fixed 30mm f2.8, because I'm sure than soon, Sony will offer a 35mm 1.8 and probably a fast zoom 2.8.
So I just prefer waiting few more months.
I don't need a 16, 19, 24, 30, 35 and 50mm, 3 of them is enough for me

There's only one problem with your way of thinking.

Given Sony's track record, if they announced a new lens today, it would be at least a year before you could actually buy one.

If Sony does not make a HUGE effort to pick it up on lens production it will hurt them very badly for sure. Third part guys will feed Sony their lunch if Sony does not watch out !

wll

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dumokun80
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Re: sigma 30mm vs kit lens...not even close
In reply to maccam, Apr 21, 2012

judge for yourself then view the orignials

sigma

kit

maccam wrote:

I actually did the wall shot with the kit at 4,5.6,8,11

f8 and f11 on the kit was about the same, f11 maybe a hair sharper

the reason I didn't post those was because they looked so bad compared to the sigma I only posted the ones that were somewhat comparable

Thanks for your biased comments

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Jonathan_Whiteman
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Re: sigma 30mm vs kit lens...not even close
In reply to dumokun80, Apr 21, 2012

I don't think Jimmy's being biased, just stating an opinion (or at least what he believes he observes). My Sigma is sharper than my kit zoom but at the same time my kit lens is sharper than these shots show (at least from memory). There are a lot of people complaining about the kit lenses while many of us are very happy with our copies. There's a good chance that this just isn't the best copy...

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jonous_0
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Re: sigma 30mm vs kit lens...not even close
In reply to dumokun80, Apr 21, 2012

Someone had posted this nice comparison http://www.slrclub.com/bbs/vx2.php?id=minolta_forum&page=7&divpage=113&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=599274 some pages ago, which depicts for sure the superiority of the sigma lens. But then again primes always boast better optics than zooms don't they?
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wll
wll
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Re: sigma 30mm vs kit lens...not even close
In reply to jonous_0, Apr 21, 2012

jonous_0 wrote:

Someone had posted this nice comparison http://www.slrclub.com/bbs/vx2.php?id=minolta_forum&page=7&divpage=113&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=599274 some pages ago, which depicts for sure the superiority of the sigma lens. But then again primes always boast better optics than zooms don't they?
--

From the looks of everything I have seen the Sigma tops the kit lens handily !

wll

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Marvin Doering
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Zoom versus Prime
In reply to jonous_0, Apr 21, 2012

I believe you are probably correct. Zooms are enormously convenient so we overlook the fact that they cannot, in general, match the quality of prime lenses. I remember when Nikon brought out one of the first zooms (43-86????) way back when. It was universally condemned by people looking for ultimate sharpness but still, it was accepted by a number of people who didn't want to change lenses so often. I didn't buy the kit lens when I got my NEX-7. It wasn't available as a kit when I got the body and now I'm glad I didn't. I previously used Olympus 4/3 and was forced to buy a new kit lens every time I upgraded camera bodies so I have owned 4 different copies of the 14-42 which you are forced to buy every time you upgrade to a new camera model. It's not that they can't build a good lens. They offer a 14-54 and a 12-60 which are very good and they are quite happy to sell them to you to replace the kit lens, but they have already made their profit on the kit. Unfortunately they don't want to make prime lenses for the 4/3 series, and Sony doesn't want to make high quality zooms to replace the modest kit lens.
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blue_skies
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Re: Zoom versus Prime
In reply to Marvin Doering, Apr 21, 2012

Agreed, zoom and primes should be viewed differently.

Sony has announced higher quality zoom lenses, and they will better the kit lens in some regard but will be bulkier/pricier. E.g. consider the (non-G) SAL1850F28 reviews.

Even so, along the long axis, the Nex-5N has 5000 pixels, the Nex-7 has 6000 pixels. Extreme crops like shown by the OP show pixel level differences, pre-processing.

If the prime and kit image are downsampled (or viewed at) 2000 pixels, along this long axis, the images appear much closer, especially if output sharpening is enabled, and sharpening is applied during/after the downsizing.

You will still be able to view the differences, at crop levels, but they will be much less obvious than the 100% image at 100% crop in RAW.

Also, in many shots, these edge effects simply do not matter, as the edges are outside the focal plane.

If you were to crop the image, ie. cut of the edges, the kit lens could actually be sharper.

But, having said all that, the Sigma 30mm is very impressive, and it is up there in image quality with the higher end RF lenses. More so, it adds AF and does not distort (color shift and edge softness) on the Nex-7.

The Sigma is slower than the 35mm lenses, but is on part with the 28mm lenses, at f/2.8.

If you look at e.g. the Nex-5N, with 16Mp sensor, the kit lens rivals the RF lenses in the center: 2800 versus 3000, for kit vs. ZM 28/8. The Sigma S30 only gets up to 2500, ie. a 10% loss of center resolution versus the kit and 18% versus the RF lens.

At the edges, the test charts show less of a resolution fall off than the OP's images suggest. I wonder if the S30 is more optimized for landscape type of framing.

See the MTF charts here:

14Mp sensor

  • ZM 28/2.8 on Nex-5 (14Mp)

  • SEL1855 on Nex-5 (14Mp)

16Mp sensor

  • S30 on Nex-5N (16Mp)

24Mp sensor

  • S30 on Nex-7 (24Mp)

  • SEL1855 on Nex-7 (24Mp)

Marvin Doering wrote:

I believe you are probably correct. Zooms are enormously convenient so we overlook the fact that they cannot, in general, match the quality of prime lenses. I remember when Nikon brought out one of the first zooms (43-86????) way back when. It was universally condemned by people looking for ultimate sharpness but still, it was accepted by a number of people who didn't want to change lenses so often. I didn't buy the kit lens when I got my NEX-7. It wasn't available as a kit when I got the body and now I'm glad I didn't. I previously used Olympus 4/3 and was forced to buy a new kit lens every time I upgraded camera bodies so I have owned 4 different copies of the 14-42 which you are forced to buy every time you upgrade to a new camera model. It's not that they can't build a good lens. They offer a 14-54 and a 12-60 which are very good and they are quite happy to sell them to you to replace the kit lens, but they have already made their profit on the kit. Unfortunately they don't want to make prime lenses for the 4/3 series, and Sony doesn't want to make high quality zooms to replace the modest kit lens.
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