Non-OEM gloss optimizer for Epson R1900/R2000

Started Apr 20, 2012 | Discussions
BrightGuy
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Non-OEM gloss optimizer for Epson R1900/R2000
Apr 20, 2012

I recently purchased the Inkjetfly pigmented inks for the Epson R2000 and I am very satisfied with them except for the gloss optimizer. The inkset consists of color inks made by Inkjetfly, Inkjetfly V3 Photo Black and Matte Black made by Image Specialists. The ink droplets spread on paper a bit more than the OEM-inks, but the minimal diference is only seen by a close inspection. The gamut is a little worse at an end and a little better at another, overall similar. The Dmax also. The bronzing and gloss differential is lower than the OEM inks. The problem is its gloss optimizer. It seems to cause bleeding to the darker tones so the contrast becomes narrower and the image somewhat blurred. There's also an overall yellow cast, compared to the print without the GO. I never mixed these inks with OEM gloss optimizer, but I strongly suspect there's something wrong with IJF GO. If something is printed without GO and then a blank sheet with GO over the already printed image, the final results is a very fine image (without blurring, bleeding or cast), but with some paper roller marks.

So, does anyone know a better non-OEM gloss optimizer for R1900/R2000 that wouldn't produce blurred images nor would be susceptible to paper roller marks? OCP, Image Specialists, Conecolor, or any off-brand GO?

TIA

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E Dinkla
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Re: Non-OEM gloss optimizer for Epson R1900/R2000
In reply to BrightGuy, Apr 20, 2012

BrightGuy wrote:

So, does anyone know a better non-OEM gloss optimizer for R1900/R2000 that wouldn't produce blurred images nor would be susceptible to paper roller marks? OCP, Image Specialists, Conecolor, or any off-brand GO?

TIA

What I recall of Digital B&W forum threads is that the Image Specialists GO (MIS etc) is a bit yellow and reduces bronzing better than the OEM gloss enhancer. So that is correct.

The bleeding of dots that happens with your paper and media preset should in theory be solved with better paper coatings, more ink limitation, slower printing. If there is no choice you can also split the color printing run from the GO print run. The drying in between will be enough.

Or skip GO at all and use a spray or wax that also gives a much better protection.

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BrightGuy
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Re: Non-OEM gloss optimizer for Epson R1900/R2000
In reply to E Dinkla, Apr 21, 2012

What I recall of Digital B&W forum threads is that the Image Specialists GO (MIS etc) is a bit yellow and reduces bronzing better than the OEM gloss enhancer. So that is correct.

The bleeding of dots that happens with your paper and media preset should in theory be solved with better paper coatings, more ink limitation, slower printing. If there is no choice you can also split the color printing run from the GO print run. The drying in between will be enough.

Thanks, Dinkla. I've done more tests and verified that turning speed off produces less blurred images -- a minimal improvement though. The best result is, indeed, achieved with two-pass print: one for the image itself without GO, and another for the blank sheet with GO. Also, I suspect that even when Full Page GO is applied with one-pass printing, Epson driver does not fire the same quantity of GO to the whole page. Although this way bronzing and gloss diferential is reduced even more, applying GO through a blank sheet printing gave me a finish very much comparable to a dye-ink printing. There's a drawback through. Paper feed/roller marks become something apparent, at least with the paper I have made these experiments. It seems the paper does not absorve the GO fast enough, so the paper sheet passes through the feed rollers before GO get dry.

I'd still want to find a better non-OEM GO for this printer. I have contacted an ink reseller in my country that told me the GO he sells does not produce this blurring/bleeding problem nor yellow cast, at least in combination with the whole inkset. I'm prone to give it a try, but be glad to read from someone about a better GO which would had eliminated/reduced exactly the blurring and cast.

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Vernon D Rainwater
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Re: Non-OEM gloss optimizer for Epson R1900/R2000
In reply to BrightGuy, Apr 22, 2012

BrightGuy wrote:

What I recall of Digital B&W forum threads is that the Image Specialists GO (MIS etc) is a bit yellow and reduces bronzing better than the OEM gloss enhancer. So that is correct.

The bleeding of dots that happens with your paper and media preset should in theory be solved with better paper coatings, more ink limitation, slower printing. If there is no choice you can also split the color printing run from the GO print run. The drying in between will be enough.

Thanks, Dinkla. I've done more tests and verified that turning speed off produces less blurred images -- a minimal improvement though. The best result is, indeed, achieved with two-pass print: one for the image itself without GO, and another for the blank sheet with GO. Also, I suspect that even when Full Page GO is applied with one-pass printing, Epson driver does not fire the same quantity of GO to the whole page. Although this way bronzing and gloss diferential is reduced even more, applying GO through a blank sheet printing gave me a finish very much comparable to a dye-ink printing. There's a drawback through. Paper feed/roller marks become something apparent, at least with the paper I have made these experiments. It seems the paper does not absorve the GO fast enough, so the paper sheet passes through the feed rollers before GO get dry.

I'd still want to find a better non-OEM GO for this printer. I have contacted an ink reseller in my country that told me the GO he sells does not produce this blurring/bleeding problem nor yellow cast, at least in combination with the whole inkset. I'm prone to give it a try, but be glad to read from someone about a better GO which would had eliminated/reduced exactly the blurring and cast.

Sometimes when I "browse read" I can miss details -- but I didn't read what type paper you are using. What type is it and is it a Paper designed to be used with your 1900 printer. Evidently, is surely must be a paper to be used with Photo Blank ink.
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BrightGuy
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Re: Non-OEM gloss optimizer for Epson R1900/R2000
In reply to Vernon D Rainwater, Apr 22, 2012

Sometimes when I "browse read" I can miss details -- but I didn't read what type paper you are using. What type is it and is it a Paper designed to be used with your 1900 printer. Evidently, is surely must be a paper to be used with Photo Blank ink.

If you're asking me what kind of paper I'm using with GO, I should say: Ilford Galerie Smooth Pearl, Ilford Galerie Smooth Lustre Duo, and a bulk good quality high-gloss resin-coated paper. Inkjetfly gloss optimizer causes blur with all those three papers. Although the problem is not huge, it damages the finest details, specially when printing 300dpi (or higher density) picture files into small format papers (5" x 7" or less).

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Vernon D Rainwater
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Re: Non-OEM gloss optimizer for Epson R1900/R2000
In reply to BrightGuy, Apr 22, 2012

BrightGuy wrote:

Sometimes when I "browse read" I can miss details -- but I didn't read what type paper you are using. What type is it and is it a Paper designed to be used with your 1900 printer. Evidently, is surely must be a paper to be used with Photo Blank ink.

If you're asking me what kind of paper I'm using with GO, I should say: Ilford Galerie Smooth Pearl, Ilford Galerie Smooth Lustre Duo, and a bulk good quality high-gloss resin-coated paper. Inkjetfly gloss optimizer causes blur with all those three papers. Although the problem is not huge, it damages the finest details, specially when printing 300dpi (or higher density) picture files into small format papers (5" x 7" or less).

I don't use any of those papers, however; they should be compatible with the Photo Black Inks and for using GO.

I evidently didn't understand your comment regarding "printing 300 DPI" (Dots Per Inch). My normal printer setting for printing Photos is 1440 DPI with each of my three different Models of Epson Printers (2200, two R800, and 3880). I rarely use the 2880 setting.
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BrightGuy
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Re: Non-OEM gloss optimizer for Epson R1900/R2000
In reply to Vernon D Rainwater, Apr 22, 2012

I don't use any of those papers, however; they should be compatible with the Photo Black Inks and for using GO.

I evidently didn't understand your comment regarding "printing 300 DPI" (Dots Per Inch). My normal printer setting for printing Photos is 1440 DPI with each of my three different Models of Epson Printers (2200, two R800, and 3880). I rarely use the 2880 setting.

They work pretty well with OEM gloss optimizer. The problem is with the Inkjetfly GO. Regarding to the resolution, I'm not talking about the printer settings, but image file.

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David Grabowski
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Re: Non-OEM gloss optimizer for Epson R1900/R2000
In reply to BrightGuy, Apr 22, 2012

Just a FYI, most Epsons run at a file resolution of 360PPI best or an integer there of ( 180, 720 etc.). A lot of people use 300PPI, it's a misnomer that 300 is the ideal. That is unless something has changed with Epsons lately !

When I was using my R800, which I have not used now in several years I might add, I stopped using GO and sprayed my prints with various products.. I used an acrylic for photo prints and or lacquer to good effect. Just FWIW. It does stink though so don't do it in a tight appartment space or some such thing.

I still lacquer my canvas mounts if I don't use a product like Glamour II.
David

Bright Guy wrote:

They work pretty well with OEM gloss optimizer. The problem is with the Inkjetfly GO. Regarding to the resolution, I'm not talking about the printer settings, but image file.

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BrightGuy
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Re: Non-OEM gloss optimizer for Epson R1900/R2000
In reply to E Dinkla, Apr 30, 2012

What I recall of Digital B&W forum threads is that the Image Specialists GO (MIS etc) is a bit yellow and reduces bronzing better than the OEM gloss enhancer. So that is correct.

The bleeding of dots that happens with your paper and media preset should in theory be solved with better paper coatings, more ink limitation, slower printing. If there is no choice you can also split the color printing run from the GO print run. The drying in between will be enough.

Or skip GO at all and use a spray or wax that also gives a much better protection.

Just to update this thread with some new info. I have experimented the IJF inks with OEM-Epson gloss optimizer. As expected, the blur was gone, even at 1-pass printing/glossing. The OEM gloss does also add some cast, but it's more subtle (most noticeable at near gray tones and by side-by-side comparison) and it tends more to the greenish cast than to that yellowish IJF GO. For most printing (non-BW nor pastel tones), it's ok to use the same profile for both GO and non-GO prints. Whatever the cast, it's manageable by a particular profiling, but the blurring in innaceptable for most prints, specially those with the finest details. The 2-pass printing is not perfect. It solves the blurring/bleeding but adds roller marks to the paper surface.

So, I'm still looking for a better non-OEM gloss optimizer. If someone has some experience to share, please do so.

TIA

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knightdaemon
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Re: Non-OEM gloss optimizer for Epson R1900/R2000
In reply to BrightGuy, Jul 13, 2012

I just wanted to follow to see if you found the best GO or are stuck with OEM.

Also, which inks are you using? IJF or OEM?

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BrightGuy
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Re: Non-OEM gloss optimizer for Epson R1900/R2000
In reply to knightdaemon, Jul 17, 2012

knightdaemon wrote:

I just wanted to follow to see if you found the best GO or are stuck with OEM.

Also, which inks are you using? IJF or OEM?

I'm currently avoiding it using low bronzing papers like those satin, luster and matte finishes. I produced and sent to Inkjetfly a detailed report of the problem with many scans of prints made with some non-OEM and OEM ink combinations. They argued I probably got a bad batch for the GO. I'm still waiting for the new batch to arrive. When it's done, I will come back here and confirm (or not) the suspicion.

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BrightGuy
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Re: Non-OEM gloss optimizer for Epson R1900/R2000
In reply to BrightGuy, Jul 19, 2012

I'd like to update this topic reporting that the problem was related to a bad batch of the gloss optimizer indeed. Because those bad GO bottles were the first ones ordered at IJF, I didn't have a parameter to confirm this suspicion at a first moment, except for the new bottles which arrived yesterday.

As it's clearly seen among the attached pictures, the old bottles have an strong (and strange) milky aspect compared to the new ones. Also, it smells somewhat different. I guess this has more to do with a contamination at further bottling than anything wrong at the manufacturing process. Anyway, the GO prints beautifully now. The blurring/bleeding problem is definitely gone. And I would say that the cast IJF GO produces over the prints are now even lower than that one produced by the OEM GO. For color pictures, prints with and without GO are practically equal each other, so someone can use the same profile. For b/w prints, the cast was only noticed when I compared the print to another non-GO one, side-by-side -- something that's easily corected by a new profile.

I attached another picture of the bottom of the bottles, both new and old ones, so someone could know which IJF GO batch to avoid/exchange.

Should I say Mr. Chang was very attentive to all this, and when I gave him scanned evidences of the problem, he promptly shipped new bottles to me. Now I can fully testify the qualify of IJF inks, at least for this R1900/R2000 set.

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F1 Forever
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If anybody's interested at this late date...
In reply to BrightGuy, Aug 19, 2012

I use inks from inkjetcarts.us and have found their GO seems to work just fine. Also use their other inks for my R2000 and have no quarrels with quality or price on mostly Ilford Galerie Glossy and Pearl.
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BrightGuy
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Re: If anybody's interested at this late date...
In reply to F1 Forever, Aug 23, 2012

F1 Forever wrote:

I use inks from inkjetcarts.us and have found their GO seems to work just fine. Also use their other inks for my R2000 and have no quarrels with quality or price on mostly Ilford Galerie Glossy and Pearl.

Thanks, Dick, for your feedback. As I already said, IJF GO seems to produce a yellow cast visibly lower than the OEM GO does. So I decided to go beyond this subjetive test and compare two printed 513-patch targets, one with IJF GO and the other without GO. The paper is a generic resin-coated 270g.

The comparison report made by i1Profiler show these targets have a dE2000 of 0.87, barely visible by naked eyes. Unfortunately I have not the OEM GO anymore, so I can't atest its qualities.

So, I usually profile targets with GO, since I verified GO/non-GO prints subjectively differ less profiling the GO target than the non-GO one.

TIA

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