initial thoughts on the NX20, NX210, and NX1000

Started Apr 19, 2012 | Discussions
Ariston
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initial thoughts on the NX20, NX210, and NX1000
Apr 19, 2012

NX1000 - cute camera but not for my taste. hope they get this down to $500.

NX210 - I wonder how fast is the processing times is for this upgrade over the NX200. I guess it's still a wait and see if the change is significant enough or if it's a processor upgrade or RAW compression. also, finally a port for the shutter release cable. the propriety stereo mic is a very nice addition as well as the new level gauge system. what is also interesting is the new display screen implementation which Samsung says would be eliminate or reduce glare from direct sunlight during viewing composition.

NX20 - I still hate the hump due to space constraint and aesthetic reasons although it does look good otherwise. looks to be better balance for bigger NX lens use. I hope the EVF is fast, large and bright. AF is hopefully faster now and hope the sensor IQ has been tweaked further. the first shutter curtain looks to be a very promising idea which also would improve the performance of the camera overall. don't care much for wifi now but it could be useful in the future.

I hope to get the NX20 within 5 months if all goes well.

Samsung NX1000 Samsung NX20 Samsung NX200 Samsung NX210
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viking79
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Re: initial thoughts on the NX20, NX210, and NX1000
In reply to Ariston, Apr 19, 2012

Ariston wrote:

NX1000 - cute camera but not for my taste. hope they get this down to $500.

Agree, price is a bit high, but considering it has the same sensor as the most expensive camera it really comes down to build. I think it would be more competitive at a lower price as I am sure the NEX F3 (or whatever its called) will be tough competition.

NX210 - I wonder how fast is the processing times is for this upgrade over the NX200. I guess it's still a wait and see if the change is significant enough or if it's a processor upgrade or RAW compression. also, finally a port for the shutter release cable. the propriety stereo mic is a very nice addition as well as the new level gauge system. what is also interesting is the new display screen implementation which Samsung says would be eliminate or reduce glare from direct sunlight during viewing composition.

Agreed, not sure I would upgrade from a NX200 unless one of those features was critical (like shutter cable).

NX20 - I still hate the hump due to space constraint and aesthetic reasons although it does look good otherwise. looks to be better balance for bigger NX lens use. I hope the EVF is fast, large and bright. AF is hopefully faster now and hope the sensor IQ has been tweaked further. the first shutter curtain looks to be a very promising idea which also would improve the performance of the camera overall. don't care much for wifi now but it could be useful in the future.

Agreed, if you can't get over the hump it might be a problem. I think the hump will be less noticeable with the larger lenses.

If the processing performance went up there is at least a chance that the AF got faster, and hopefully high ISO JPEG quality improved. Any IQ improvements would be welcome, but I don't think I would expect anything major from basically the same sensor.

I like the idea of the electronic first curtain as well, but it can leave some shadows in certain circumstances on the NEX 7 so I hope its configurable (or they do a good job avoiding shadows). A 40ms response time is impressive. Also, the 1/8000 shutter is a full stop improvement over most other mirrorless cameras. Nice for shooting with the 85mm f/1.4 in bright light at largest aperture

I hope to get the NX20 within 5 months if all goes well.

Who knows, by that time there might be rumors or announcements to other products too.

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aquafresh
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Re: initial thoughts on the NX20, NX210, and NX1000
In reply to Ariston, Apr 20, 2012

Ariston wrote:

how fast is the processing times

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGKnDzP6d_o

:-\

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Ariston
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Re: initial thoughts on the NX20, NX210, and NX1000
In reply to aquafresh, Apr 20, 2012

aquafresh wrote:

Ariston wrote:

how fast is the processing times

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGKnDzP6d_o

:-\

saw that one already. although it seems to be as fast as the NX200, the question still remains as to what camera memory card is used in that video.

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supeyugin1
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Re: initial thoughts on the NX20, NX210, and NX1000
In reply to Ariston, Apr 20, 2012

So the only difference between Nx210 and NX1000 is the screen?

I'd take NX1000 for $200 less. Hope the price will be around $500 after few months.
Anyway, I want a fully articulated screen, so I'd wait for NX300.

On the other hand, you can control NX210/1000 with your smartphone as a remote LCD, but this will require too many hands.

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wictred
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Re: initial thoughts on the NX20, NX210, and NX1000
In reply to Ariston, Apr 20, 2012

Ariston wrote:

saw that one already. although it seems to be as fast as the NX200, the question still remains as to what camera memory card is used in that video.

the speed is acutally slower than on my nx200, so it is probably a very slow card.

the 7 shot burst processing on my nx200 is already finished when it's at 50% in the video. sandisc sdxc extreme pro

the limit on the writing speed is roughly at 20mb/sec (I think daniel77 also did some testing on the NX200 and got the same result)

you can test that with a single shot + pressing the image display button

NX200 processing for 1 RAW (FW 1.04):
without sd card: 2.5 sec
with class 10 card: 5.5 sec
with sdxc: 4 sec

so I'd say the card in the video is even slower than a class 10

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tufir
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Wow, listen to that shutter sound!
In reply to aquafresh, Apr 20, 2012

Ouch for the write time. Any information what card they used?

But listen to shat impressive quiet shutter sound!

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tecnoworld
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Re: initial thoughts on the NX20, NX210, and NX1000
In reply to wictred, Apr 20, 2012

they claim that Raw is now compressed...possibly the long time is due to compression process?

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wictred
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Re: initial thoughts on the NX20, NX210, and NX1000
In reply to tecnoworld, Apr 20, 2012

tecnoworld wrote:

they claim that Raw is now compressed...possibly the long time is due to compression process?

I'm pretty sure they used a slow SD card

processing time on the NX200 is roughly the same if you have a slow SD card (lower than class 10)

8 shots with a 10 mb/sec card = approx 30 secs writing (raw + jpeg)
with a 20 mb/sec card thats 15 secs

in both cases you'd have to add the processing time before writing to the card, let's say 2 secs

so with a class 10 card it would take roughly 45 secs, with a faster card reaching 20mb/sec we'd be at 30 secs for 8 shots (thats roughly what my nx200 reaches with 7 shots on a fast card).

In the video it's 1 min for 8 shots

Even if the compression would take a bit longer that would not explain the slow speed in the video. To me it looks like they used a

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Michael Barkowski
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Re: initial thoughts on the NX20, NX210, and NX1000
In reply to Ariston, Apr 20, 2012

My thoughts on the release:

Nobody else has the WiFi features yet and it's more than just getting rid of cables. People who do 365 challenges or travel will like the upload options, and people who do tripod work will love the remote control.

24MP vs 20MP, 2.4 vs 1.4 million dot EVFs, ... in EVFs resolution isn't everything... maybe 800x600 is enough, I don't know, but contrast and latency are also important.

The large, articulated OLED with no air gap surely makes the EVF secondary for some shooters for the first time, and with low-lag electronic shutter and 1/8000 sec, Samsung seems to be keeping up with pack on key photographic features.

Very encouraging to see some lenses being revised; the kit lenses were already very good.

Encouraging to those who are somewhat "invested in the system" is that there are now three types of camera bodies. Hopefully this will continue and the range of lenses will go along with it... I am personally hoping there will eventually be an affordable alternative to the 85mm f1.4 for example.

And last but not least I must take this opportunity once again to harp on my bugbears ... the NX200 control lockups during RAW write: I hope the firmware in the latest models is a little more sane in some areas, although I consider the NX200 to be a wonderful alternative to film, because just like film, it forces you to slow down and think before you take that first shot, since you'll be slowing down whether you want to or not after that shot And the NX200 RAW format changes: I must remind myself to wait a few firmware versions before I consider buying a camera, so that I know it is really supported long term by my post-processing environment, which is after all a large part of my investment. Here endeth the rant.

Oh - and a big hooray for adding digital zoom. I honestly sincerely thing now is the time for this - we have 20 MP and I was satisfied with 6 MP at one time. Digital zoom is so much better than cropping - your histogram, evaluative metering and white balance would all benefit greatly. I used this on the Canon G11 (it has a virtual teleconverter feature).

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tecnoworld
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Re: initial thoughts on the NX20, NX210, and NX1000
In reply to Michael Barkowski, Apr 20, 2012

I see it very differently. the wifi feature for me is not worth extra money. I'd never use my smartphone as the liveview (how could I handle it AND the camera at the same time?) and I prefer a remote manual trigger for shooting.

Besides the EVF was the ONLY thing I really wanted, and I think that this one is based on an old technology. It's more similar to that in the Sony A55 than that in the NEX7, and this is unacceptable given the price and the lunch date.

1/8000 is nice, but I'd have preferred other features (in body IS, focus peaking, OLED EVF and so on).

Processing and write times also seem very long, on par with nx200. Too bad for a camera out 7-8 months later.

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4thnebula
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Re: initial thoughts on the NX20, NX210, and NX1000
In reply to Ariston, Apr 20, 2012

The NX 210 and NX1000 have fixed LCDs. Not interested.

The NX20 has an articulating OLED LCD. I am interested. Also GPS module coming. Also a must.

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Ariston
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Re: Wow, listen to that shutter sound!
In reply to tufir, Apr 20, 2012

the silent shutter sound indeed caught my attention. if this was made inorder to reduce or eliminate the shutter induced vibration, then this is a very good development. also, it's good to silently shoot again with the others.

tufir wrote:

Ouch for the write time. Any information what card they used?

But listen to shat impressive quiet shutter sound!

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tufir
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Maybe side effect of electronic first curtain shutter?
In reply to Ariston, Apr 20, 2012

Does someone know if 8fps is standard or only managed in electronic first curtain shutter mode? That could be one explanation why it's so quiet. Very much more quiet than the noisy bitch NEX 7

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Michael Barkowski
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Re: initial thoughts on the NX20, NX210, and NX1000
In reply to tecnoworld, Apr 20, 2012

tecnoworld wrote:

Besides the EVF was the ONLY thing I really wanted, and I think that this one is based on an old technology. It's more similar to that in the Sony A55 than that in the NEX7, and this is unacceptable given the price and the lunch date.

I cannot find a reliable basis to conclude that the NX20 EVF is based on old technology. One news outlet using the word "sequential" does not completely describe a technology.

Given that the NEX-7+18-55 is $300 more than the NX20+18-55, if anything it makes the NX20 look conservative rather than outdated. Although I personally think the swivel OLED and other features add quite a bit of value to the NX20.

All the advantages of previous NX models are still there - the iFn, many direct access buttons, great menus, great lenses, great RAW image quality, etc.

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jj74e
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Re: initial thoughts on the NX20, NX210, and NX1000
In reply to Ariston, Apr 20, 2012

Ariston wrote:

NX1000 - cute camera but not for my taste. hope they get this down to $500.

considering the insides are all up to spec, and the only cost cutting seems to be the body material and screen, i don't think it should be that much cheaper. It's not comparable to how M4/3 does their low end models, which skimp on the sensor AND body/screen materials.

NX210 - I wonder how fast is the processing times is for this upgrade over the NX200. I guess it's still a wait and see if the change is significant enough or if it's a processor upgrade or RAW compression. also, finally a port for the shutter release cable. the propriety stereo mic is a very nice addition as well as the new level gauge system. what is also interesting is the new display screen implementation which Samsung says would be eliminate or reduce glare from direct sunlight during viewing composition.

dpreview says they have compressed RAWs now, which should make it a good bit faster than the NX10 as far as write speeds goes, I would assume. and yes, the mic jack in is very nice. the new screen tech is only for the NX20. I understand they want the NX20 to be their premium camera, but seeing that the nX20 has a built in EVF for sunny days, it would have made more sense to include it on the nX210 as well.

NX20 - I still hate the hump due to space constraint and aesthetic reasons although it does look good otherwise. looks to be better balance for bigger NX lens use. I hope the EVF is fast, large and bright. AF is hopefully faster now and hope the sensor IQ has been tweaked further. the first shutter curtain looks to be a very promising idea which also would improve the performance of the camera overall. don't care much for wifi now but it could be useful in the future.

I agree about the hump, but otherwise it looks very tank like yet welcoming. AF videos on youtube look excellent.

I hope to get the NX20 within 5 months if all goes well.

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rurouni
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Re: initial thoughts on the NX20, NX210, and NX1000
In reply to wictred, May 2, 2012

I tried the NX10 when it first came out and I really liked the ergonomics on it. At that time I was an exclusive Nikon SLR and Rangefinder (film) shooter.

Unfortunately the writing speed in raw was too slow for my usage (single shot mode but rapid succession of shots).

From then until now I've noticed that Samsung has come up with many nice performing lenses that are priced much lower than the regular competition (E.g. Nikon 85/1.4G vs Samsung 85/1.4).

I am quite tempted to get the NX20 when its out. I currently use an NEX5 but the lens roadmap that Samsung has is more suited to the focal lengths I prefer.

Is the shot to shot time on the modern NX cameras like the NX200 similar to an NEX5? I do know that I can fire off a shot per second (Raw + Jpeg) on a Sandisk Ultra (45meg/sec) card for appox 10+ shots before the buffer lags and I can take a shot every 2 seconds.

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snake_b
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Re: initial thoughts on the NX20, NX210, and NX1000
In reply to rurouni, May 2, 2012

How are SLR lenses from Nikon comparable to the Samsung NX lenses? They're two different things. Sure, they're glass and have some of the same numbers, but I don't think you're looking at it properly if that's how your making comparisons.

rurouni wrote:

I tried the NX10 when it first came out and I really liked the ergonomics on it. At that time I was an exclusive Nikon SLR and Rangefinder (film) shooter.

Unfortunately the writing speed in raw was too slow for my usage (single shot mode but rapid succession of shots).

From then until now I've noticed that Samsung has come up with many nice performing lenses that are priced much lower than the regular competition (E.g. Nikon 85/1.4G vs Samsung 85/1.4).

I am quite tempted to get the NX20 when its out. I currently use an NEX5 but the lens roadmap that Samsung has is more suited to the focal lengths I prefer.

Is the shot to shot time on the modern NX cameras like the NX200 similar to an NEX5? I do know that I can fire off a shot per second (Raw + Jpeg) on a Sandisk Ultra (45meg/sec) card for appox 10+ shots before the buffer lags and I can take a shot every 2 seconds.

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Thomas Wieser
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I will go for a NX20
In reply to rurouni, May 2, 2012

I am very, very happy with the design of my NX10 and NX11. The NX20 is very similar in form, size, weight and UI. It can use the same batteries and chargers. What I missed from my Pentax DSLR is the electronic spirit level. This feature is provided in NX20, add articulation to the rear display screen, and a higher-resolution electronic viewfinder and hey presto - perfect camera for me. Perfomance wise I have no problems with NX10, so the NX20 really should do all I ask for.

I sure will buy NX20, but maybe not immediately. It depends on when the NX20 and new lenses are released. The 55 pancake, the wide angle zoom and the 16-80 all are on my list and I am not sure whether I can resist the 85 any longer. But I cannot afford all of them immeditely. As I have 2 working cameras, I would buy the lenses first and buy camera later in the year.

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Ariston
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Re: initial thoughts on the NX20, NX210, and NX1000
In reply to rurouni, May 2, 2012

rurouni wrote:

I tried the NX10 when it first came out and I really liked the ergonomics on it. At that time I was an exclusive Nikon SLR and Rangefinder (film) shooter.

Unfortunately the writing speed in raw was too slow for my usage (single shot mode but rapid succession of shots).

From then until now I've noticed that Samsung has come up with many nice performing lenses that are priced much lower than the regular competition (E.g. Nikon 85/1.4G vs Samsung 85/1.4).

I am quite tempted to get the NX20 when its out. I currently use an NEX5 but the lens roadmap that Samsung has is more suited to the focal lengths I prefer.

Is the shot to shot time on the modern NX cameras like the NX200 similar to an NEX5? I do know that I can fire off a shot per second (Raw + Jpeg) on a Sandisk Ultra (45meg/sec) card for appox 10+ shots before the buffer lags and I can take a shot every 2 seconds.

the recommend card for the NX200 is the Sandisk Extreme III pro card or any fast equivalent card. a 16GB is recommended if you shoot around 400 images on one occasion. a shot per shot interval would be fine on the NX200. just be wary of the lockdown which could last for 2-3 seconds. the lockdown would prohibit you to access the menu setting and change AF points. but you will still be able to shoot with the camera despite that. it is not advisable to shoot with action photography with this camera nor any other CDAF mirrorless system. also, not recommended to use the 7fps RAW burst since it will lock the menu longer. so 1 shot per second would be fine.

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