I'm kind of disappointed.

Started Apr 13, 2012 | Discussions
amobi
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I'm kind of disappointed.
Apr 13, 2012

Since ordering my D800 I've been lurking on Nikon forum quite a lot. Like Canon forum all I keep hearing over here also is front focusing and back focusing issues. Some people have to do + or - 20 on their lenses to get an acceptable sharpness. Using the outer focusing points sounds like a no no. It feels and sounds like Canon forum. This is not what I expected. I expected to see bunch of happy people with super AF systems.

Honestly I thought all these focusing issues is with Canon only. I guess grass is not greener after all. It feels like déjà Vu all over again. In fact with 5DIII AF it is looking greener over at Canon.

Canon EOS 5D Mark III Nikon D800
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djmm
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Re: I'm kind of disappointed.
In reply to amobi, Apr 13, 2012

Maybe you should raincheck your disappointment til you actually receive your camera and if it has focus issue?

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u007
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Re: I'm kind of disappointed.
In reply to amobi, Apr 13, 2012

Yup. I'm actually feeling the same.

Pre-ordered my d800, but I'm switching from Sony and I sold all my gear. So right now I have no dSLR gear and no particular reason to get a d800 or a 5d3. I had a 24.6mp Sony a850 and I loved the resolution, so the d800 appealed to me a lot initially.

But the green LCD, focus issues etc and of course NO idea when it will arrive. These reasons are making me pay slightly more attention to 5d3 reviews.

The fact is that the 5d3 is available everywhere already. It was announced, and two weeks later it's in stock everywhere. Nikon announced over two months ago and still not available. Not to mention that loads of lenses seem unavailable too.. I can't find a 50/1.4G anywhere in the UK apart from at ridiculous prices.

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marike6
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Re: I'm kind of disappointed.
In reply to amobi, Apr 13, 2012

All new cameras have minor issues that need to be worked out. How many of these D800 reports of issues are real and how many are due to user error, not reading the manual, or exaggeration is anybody's guess.

But the fact is the D800 is a more capable, and exciting new DSLR than the 5D III. There is just no disputing that fact. Both cameras can produce superb results, but the better DR and resolution, and all around higher quality files from the D800 make it an easy choice.

There is a reason the 5D III is in stock everywhere and the D800 is not.

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J Mankila
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Nothing like post-launch hysteria to assess a camera...
In reply to amobi, Apr 13, 2012

Really, which products are launched without first batch QC issues?

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Janne Mankila, Finland

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u007
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Re: I'm kind of disappointed.
In reply to marike6, Apr 13, 2012

marike6 wrote:

All new cameras have minor issues that need to be worked out. How many of these D800 reports of issues are real and how many are due to user error, not reading the manual, or exaggeration is anybody's guess.

That's very true. And judging by many pics posted on this site, I'm gonna say there's a lot of user error from people who don't know WTF they're doing.

But the fact is the D800 is a more capable, and exciting new DSLR than the 5D III. There is just no disputing that fact. Both cameras can produce superb results, but the better DR and resolution, and all around higher quality files from the D800 make it an easy choice.

I don't think you can really say that the d800 is more capable or not. By all accounts, autofocus and ISO is pretty equal. d800 gives more resolution, but 5d3 has more fps.

There is a reason the 5D III is in stock everywhere and the D800 is not.

Yup. Canon has much better stocking and distribution capabilities. Nikon is always terrible at product launches.. d7000 was sold out for ages too. And as I mentioned, there are several Nikon lenses which I can't find anywhere - especially not for a reasonable price.

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amobi
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Re: Nothing like post-launch hysteria to assess a camera...
In reply to J Mankila, Apr 13, 2012

I'm not even talking about D800. The over all mood is same as Canon.

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Shotcents
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Re: I'm kind of disappointed.
In reply to u007, Apr 13, 2012

Canon just confirmed the light leak on the LCD for the 5DIII. Thus far Nikon has confirmed nothing.

I think many of the AF issues I see are real. The people reporting them appear to be experienced.

The D800 I ordered a while back is nowhere in sight and that's not fun, nor is it very professional when you're supposed to be serving a partly pro market.

The D800 may be the better camera, but Nikon has seriously failed on several fronts bringing it to market. They will absolutely lose sales over the inability to deliver and one person in my circle gave up and got the 5DIII. I'm sure it will happen elsewhere.

I'm excited about the D800, but bummed about the wait and possible problems, however unlikely. In sales we have an expression "Meat on the table too long turns rancid."
Nikon should learn what that means.

Robert

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thomas2279f
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Re: I'm kind of disappointed.
In reply to u007, Apr 13, 2012

Have to say Canon are doing some good cashback on lenses like 17-40, 24-105, 70-200 F4 L IS and also f2.8's that you could go for a Canon MK 2/3 or 7d ?

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Waltersmatthews
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Re: Nothing like post-launch hysteria to assess a camera...
In reply to amobi, Apr 13, 2012

Canon went for more than a year and never really acknowledged the focus problem with the 1DII or was it the III, I don't remember, but I remember it was pretty painful for a lot of peopel who had to shoot action in the sun professionally and had counted on Canon. I think it is just the Japanese way, never admit a mistake, fix it and move on.

There are enough reports of focus problem from people whose photos convince me they really do know what they are doing to make me believe that it could be a real issue. Moreover, it is very strange that the pipeline for D800 had dried up and that the D800E has not started yet and we are well past the announced date.

My guess, and this is just a guess, is that they are holding shipments till they can;
1. Figure out what if anything the issues are
2. Resolve the issues in existing inventory if they can
3. Implement a real fix into future manufacturing.

You do not start a product line and then shut it off unless you have a real production issue.

This feels like the beginning of a real issue.

I am confident they will resolve it but I really wish they would "open the Kimono", so to speak and let us know what is going on.

I am also certain we will never know what has been going or or what is goin on now.

Nikon-san doishita no?
Mondai wa nan desu ka?

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reginalddwight
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Rush to production?
In reply to amobi, Apr 13, 2012

I have encountered some issues with my D800 discussed on this forum. The one that likely cannot be rectified via firmware is the faulty left bank of AF sensors particularly when shooting in AF-S mode. I have not encountered nearly the same level of mis-focus when shooting in AF-C mode with my copy. Not sure exactly why. My best guess is that it may have to do with check and re-check AF in the closed-loop PDAF system. I'm not sure if this entirely explains the discrepancy though.

Besides the faulty left bank of AF sensors, there is the yellow-tint LCD, inaccurate WB, and backfocus with AF-assist in SB-900/700 flashguns.

I e-mailed Nikon Support my issues earlier this week, but thus far have yet to hear back from them with anything actionable. Will keep you posted. I surmise my copy of the D800 (and lenses?) will likely need to be sent in for evaluation and adjustment.

If Nikon find the AF issue to be more systemic than a few bad samples off the production line, then they will presumably issue a product advisory like Canon have with the 5DMkIII.

Despite these issues, the D800 is my favorite photographic tool at the moment.

Cheers.

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plasnu
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Re: Rush to production?
In reply to reginalddwight, Apr 13, 2012

Those issue are horrible. Please cancel your orders!

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Dominique Dierick
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One tends to see only the negative things in a forum
In reply to amobi, Apr 13, 2012

Has always been the case. I remember with my D7000, I had no issues, and everyone tried to make believe that the D7000 was a problematic camera. Some were real calibration issues, most were user error. Not saying it is exactly the same now, but I do see a lot of users without issues or minor glitches that will go away with the first fw upgrade.

I am a satisfied user so far, absolutely no AF problems (at least not more than with other cameras in similar circumstances, sometimes even better than my D3s), no WB problems. Family reasons prevented me from exploiting my new camera the last couple of weeks, but hopefully I can take it into real production soon.

D.

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Luke Kaven
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Re: I'm kind of disappointed.
In reply to u007, Apr 13, 2012

u007 wrote:

Yup. I'm actually feeling the same.

Pre-ordered my d800, but I'm switching from Sony and I sold all my gear. So right now I have no dSLR gear and no particular reason to get a d800 or a 5d3. I had a 24.6mp Sony a850 and I loved the resolution, so the d800 appealed to me a lot initially.

I came off a D3x with the same sensor. It got my appetite up for more resolution. I'm not disappointed with the very similar look and colors. Lots of good lenses these days too.

But the green LCD, focus issues etc and of course NO idea when it will arrive. These reasons are making me pay slightly more attention to 5d3 reviews.

Shucks, mine works so perfectly. Don't let the F.U.D. get you down. It's a hell of a camera. I'm sure that the camera they are building for you is already benefiting from improved QC. It will be good. They don't slack in Sendai; it's all home team there.

The fact is that the 5d3 is available everywhere already. It was announced, and two weeks later it's in stock everywhere. Nikon announced over two months ago and still not available. Not to mention that loads of lenses seem unavailable too.. I can't find a 50/1.4G anywhere in the UK apart from at ridiculous prices.

I would attribute this to high demand for the one camera as opposed to the other, coupled with Canon's bigger manufacturing capacity.

The one thing that might incline me more towards the Canon is if I intended to do a lot of shooting over ISO6400. If you do the bulk of your shooting at ISO6400 or under, then I think the Nikon has a big edge.

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Dominique Dierick
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Couldn't agree more
In reply to Luke Kaven, Apr 13, 2012

For anything up to 6400 ISO, one can hardly find a better DSLR today (if you don't need high speed frames per second at least). Above 6400 ISO it's still fine with decent light, but don't expect D3s/D4 miracles. But as far as I have seen, 5DmkIII is not all that better in the high ISO department (the high ISO JPEGS do look better).

D.

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marike6
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Re: I'm kind of disappointed.
In reply to u007, Apr 13, 2012

u007 wrote:

marike6 wrote:

All new cameras have minor issues that need to be worked out. How many of these D800 reports of issues are real and how many are due to user error, not reading the manual, or exaggeration is anybody's guess.

That's very true. And judging by many pics posted on this site, I'm gonna say there's a lot of user error from people who don't know WTF they're doing.

But the fact is the D800 is a more capable, and exciting new DSLR than the 5D III. There is just no disputing that fact. Both cameras can produce superb results, but the better DR and resolution, and all around higher quality files from the D800 make it an easy choice.

I don't think you can really say that the d800 is more capable or not. By all accounts, autofocus and ISO is pretty equal. d800 gives more resolution, but 5d3 has more fps.

Of course you can. All you have to do is look at the images, and look at DxOMark for confirmation of the huge DR disparity. That coupled with the banding issues that are still present in 5D III files, and the fact that the 5D III is in actuality not a dramatic improvement at all over the 5D II, except for AF and better high ISO. For many that just won't be enough and in fact you are seeing tons of Canon users switching to Nikon.

There is a reason the 5D III is in stock everywhere and the D800 is not.

Yup. Canon has much better stocking and distribution capabilities. Nikon is always terrible at product launches.. d7000 was sold out for ages too. And as I mentioned, there are several Nikon lenses which I can't find anywhere - especially not for a reasonable price.

That may be true. It's also true that the D800 has an absolutely huge number of pre-orders, and when any do show up in random shops, they sell out extremely quickly. The D800 has generated significantly more buzz in the industry, and among not only Nikon, users but large numbers of Canon users.

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u007
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Re: I'm kind of disappointed.
In reply to Luke Kaven, Apr 13, 2012

Luke Kaven wrote:

u007 wrote:

Yup. I'm actually feeling the same.

Pre-ordered my d800, but I'm switching from Sony and I sold all my gear. So right now I have no dSLR gear and no particular reason to get a d800 or a 5d3. I had a 24.6mp Sony a850 and I loved the resolution, so the d800 appealed to me a lot initially.

I came off a D3x with the same sensor. It got my appetite up for more resolution. I'm not disappointed with the very similar look and colors. Lots of good lenses these days too.

Absolutely. That's what got me so excited about the d800. I just can't understand why people were moaning about 36mp. 36mp will be AWESOME!

But the green LCD, focus issues etc and of course NO idea when it will arrive. These reasons are making me pay slightly more attention to 5d3 reviews.

Shucks, mine works so perfectly. Don't let the F.U.D. get you down. It's a hell of a camera. I'm sure that the camera they are building for you is already benefiting from improved QC. It will be good. They don't slack in Sendai; it's all home team there.

Yeah I hope so. Hopefully Nikon are correcting problems right now and not just ignoring them, or floundering around and panicking about huge pre-orders. I'm likely going to keep my pre-order. If the camera is problematic and has errors, I know I can return it for repair or refund. It's more like the mental uncertainty that a lot of people are feeling now. This hasn't been a smooth launch at all.

The fact is that the 5d3 is available everywhere already. It was announced, and two weeks later it's in stock everywhere. Nikon announced over two months ago and still not available. Not to mention that loads of lenses seem unavailable too.. I can't find a 50/1.4G anywhere in the UK apart from at ridiculous prices.

I would attribute this to high demand for the one camera as opposed to the other, coupled with Canon's bigger manufacturing capacity.

Maybe, but I suspect it's a supply problem rather than demand. Yes demand is high, but if the stories we have heard are true (like B&H only getting tiny shipments of less than 100 cameras when they have 4000 pre-orders) then it's a supply problem. Not to mention the total lack of new d800 deliveries for about two weeks now, and no sign of the d800E on it's "launch" date either.

It's very disappointing overall. It may not matter in the long run. Hopefully the d800 will be my main camera for 4-5 years, so a few months wait isn't too bad. It's just infuriating!

The one thing that might incline me more towards the Canon is if I intended to do a lot of shooting over ISO6400. If you do the bulk of your shooting at ISO6400 or under, then I think the Nikon has a big edge.

Yup, I'm usually 6400 and under. Hell, my a850 only went up to 6400, and that was emergency boost mode. Useable ISO6400 would be incredible.

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u007
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Re: I'm kind of disappointed.
In reply to marike6, Apr 13, 2012

Marike6, I didn't think the 5d3 DxOMark is out yet. I can't see it anywhere on their site :-/

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falconeyes
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Lack of knowlege
In reply to amobi, Apr 13, 2012

amobi wrote:

Since ordering my D800 I've been lurking on Nikon forum quite a lot. Like Canon forum all I keep hearing over here also is front focusing and back focusing issues.

This kind of complaint is normal and a consequnce of limited understanding of how a phase detect AF system works. In order to avoid such issues, an AF accuracy (positioning accuracy of the focal pane) of about 6 micron is required.

No camera can focus this precisely. The AF system never was crafted for this, nor have been lenses. BTW, this is a much larger issue with a larger crop factor and it is a good thing that FourThirds is Contrast AF now (which has its own limitations of course).

So, the real question would be how the cameras perform in lab-quality AF accuracy tests. The amount of whining in forums cannot replace that. Unfortunately, it is easy to whine but hard to perform a lab-quality test.

P.S.

I think I am entitled to say this because I did a lab-quality AF test. Although not for Nikon.

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munro harrap
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Re: I'm kind of disappointed.
In reply to amobi, Apr 14, 2012

Mine had to go back because it gets focus wrong all the time. So I have to wait for a new replacement, which once you have got used to being able to see what you have got at 100% is a drag. 36 MP delivers far more detail than can even 24.5, or a 5D MkIII, and certainly more than a D4.

Errors are huge, 8ft instead of 10 ft, 40metres instead of 50m, or back-focussing to the same degree, and mine had no face recognition working whatsoever. Not once did it pin even incorrect focus on a face.

It has to be able to do this because removing the switch and the three vertical and horizontal groupings from the AF options means you have to be able to trust Auto AF completely, and I decided on a D800 because the colour is more accurate, the resolution is greater and the lenses I need are better, but most of all because of the fact that my D200 gets the focus right all the time and all we were told was that the same options that existed there existed on the D800, but they have simply moved the switches to a dumb two hand system, and you lose the instant group focus shift entirely, and moving one point one place at a time is so slow that Elvis will have left the building before the applause can even begin, so the auto AF has to work.

In the case of the body I got it did not. They are as usual very badly boxed and easily damaged in transit. There is nothing to protect the machine that sits inside on a layer of cardboard roughly a quarter of an inch only above the outer wall of the base. There is no shaped styrofoam. And the "home team at Sendai" send them half-way around the world in what I get a pizza in from a supermarket. All that glisters is not necessarily a decent box to put a $3000 DSLR body in.

Perhaps you will all one day with Dpreview and the magazines actually DO something to wake these guys up. The last properly protected camera I bought was a Ricoh i700 back whenever.

Like the manual COULD be printed the size of the box? and be legible? I have to read mine off a downloaded PDF! Like they could and should have kept the AF switching lever on the back.? With the options they make people buy a Nikon in the first place?

Don't count on getting one mail order that works properly after the post office or the couriers have finished with throwing them around, so don't buy off a website.

I did not, but it still did not work. Having an AF camera whose AF is Naff is the same as paying for a car with no wheels. It's that bad, so for Christ's sake, cut the toadyism and realise you are being shafted again.

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