No K-5 level calibration? - ABSOLUTELY PATHETIC!

Started Apr 12, 2012 | Discussions
SRT201
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No K-5 level calibration? - ABSOLUTELY PATHETIC!
Apr 12, 2012

Pentax has some problems with several aspects of the K-5 design (no fix for low light AF FF, bounce flash problems). These are however complex subsystems and many cameras from other brands have had similar issues due to the fact that not everything can be tested for in design and manufacturing.

However... the inability to calibrate the digital level - is TRULY INEPT design. Any design using a digital level MUST have a calibration procedure or it's basically useless. There is no way to manufacture with the accelerometer mounted perfectly level. It's a tiny solid state component that is soldered to yet another not-level board that could even shift slightly during shipping or use. It has to be calibrated at the factory and therefore has to allow calibration through software. There IS a calibration factor in each K-5 to adjust the level.

Is this another QC issue with Pentax? Are they actually skipping the calibration procedure on some percentage of bodies!

The digital level and auto-leveling are NOT just throw-in features. They are significant and something a buyer should be able to count on. They are also utterly useless in a body that is out of calibration. So... an out of calibration body has to be bounced around in a truck, calibrated by Pentax (hopefully correctly) and then bounced around in a truck again to correct the situation???

That is IDIOCY and simply poor design.

Sorry... I'm an engineer and I've designed my share of electronic and software systems. There simply is no excuse for this when a few lines of code would give user access to a simple recalibration procedure.

Any phone or tablet allows you do calibrate your accelerometer almost effortlessly!

I started this new thread in the hopes that somebody at Pentax might notice it and think about adding this NECESSARY feature to the next firmware rev. My expectations however are not high that this will be remedied. Just shamefully bad design.

EVEN WORSE...

There are users in "the other" forum who sent their cameras in only to have them return STILL out of calibration!

pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5-forum/149797-how-adjust-calibrate-auto-level.html

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SRT201
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The K-5 level CAN go out of calibration
In reply to SRT201, Apr 12, 2012

Check the other forum and you will find a reference to a guy with a silver K-5 that had a perfectly working level for a long time and suddenly it was out of calibration.

Most likely due to a tiny shift in the board it is mounted to as I mentioned.

So, just because your K-5 level works now, don't assume it will continue to be level. We should all be calling Pentax to get this added to the firmware.

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chiane
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Re: No K-5 level calibration? - ABSOLUTELY PATHETIC!
In reply to SRT201, Apr 12, 2012

I told you all this guys dust issue whining was just the beginning! It's like Nightwings 2.0.

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awaldram
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Re: The K-5 level CAN go out of calibration
In reply to SRT201, Apr 12, 2012

SRT201 wrote:

So, just because your K-5 level works now, don't assume it will continue to be level. We should all be calling Pentax to get this added to the firmware.

Er why?

My k5 when checked with a spirit level is not accurate.......But

Point it at an horizon set the level as zero and the horizon is level in the image.

What use would greater accuracy than that be.

Seem a bit anal to me, I don't wont to fxck about calibrating something thats accurate enough anyway.

On top of that the sensor is not granular enough to support accurate level control.

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SRT201
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Re: The K-5 level CAN go out of calibration
In reply to awaldram, Apr 12, 2012

awaldram wrote:

SRT201 wrote:

So, just because your K-5 level works now, don't assume it will continue to be level. We should all be calling Pentax to get this added to the firmware.

Er why?

My k5 when checked with a spirit level is not accurate.......But

Point it at an horizon set the level as zero and the horizon is level in the image.

Then your sensor/level ARE calibrated correctly as it is only the level referenced to the sensor that we are interested in.

What use would greater accuracy than that be.

Seem a bit anal to me, I don't wont to fxck about calibrating something thats accurate enough anyway.

On top of that the sensor is not granular enough to support accurate level control.

If that's really the case then you are saying the feature was designed badly and is isn't really useful even when calibrated. Is that okay with you?

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SRT201
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Re: No K-5 level calibration? - ABSOLUTELY PATHETIC!
In reply to chiane, Apr 12, 2012

I've been on this forum for quite a while and don't spend my time ginning up discontent for fun. Having purchased a K-5 I'm seeing some serious concerns with the design, QC and support from Pentax.

If you don't use the level, fine. But don't just give Pentax a pass on poor design. That is no way to help improve your chosen system and is generally the behavior of a fanboy. We don't need any more of those.

I'm no Olympus fanboy by any stretch. They have had plenty of issues themselves.

Your comment here is every bit as useless and troll-like as that you made in the dust thread.

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sfa1966
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An idea for your next rant
In reply to SRT201, Apr 12, 2012

OK, you've done the dust speck, and now you're on the level. Well, not really, obviously.

IMHO, here's the next rant you should go for ...

K10D had a silver shutter release button, but - quelle horreur! - the K-5's is black! Matt black!! What brainless morons those Pentax engineers must be - don't they realise that the body will be more susceptible to overheating in sunlight? Pah. Company's obviously going backwards. We should all send our cameras in and get shiny buttons immediately. Free of charge! Now, I tell you! Now!! Before I overheat!!!

Obviously you can dress it up in your own inimitable style by SHOUTING in caps, may I suggest words like "absolutely" and "pathetic"?

Anyway, I do look forward to reading your next fault-finding mission!

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sfa

A very limited photographer ...

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SRT201
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Re: An idea for your next rant
In reply to sfa1966, Apr 12, 2012

I really don't know how many features you paid for that you are willing to give up because they don't work correctly. I sort of expect the thing to do what I paid for it to do which isn't to simply "take pictures". A Holga can do that.

Why bother with a feature-laden machine like the K-5 if none of that stuff is really necessary or useful?

I'm rather amazed at the attitude... Oh well, another feature that doesn't really work or can't be counted on. Would have been nice but I can live without it.

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Matthew Miller
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This is a good point; let's keep the flamewar out of it
In reply to SRT201, Apr 12, 2012

Pentax should provide this feature. I'm not sure why they don't.

In the past, they've made a lot of incremental improvements along these lines as new cameras come out — user-accessible focus microadjust, for example — and I was surprised to not see this in the K-5. Hopefully it will be in the successor.

I'm not sure if it's more helpful to raise a stink or to ask politely. Each has its strong points — and downsides.

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someuy
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Yeah, right.
In reply to SRT201, Apr 12, 2012

SRT201 wrote:

I've been on this forum for quite a while and don't spend my time ginning up discontent for fun.

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awaldram
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Re: The K-5 level CAN go out of calibration
In reply to SRT201, Apr 12, 2012

SRT201 wrote:

awaldram wrote:

SRT201 wrote:

What use would greater accuracy than that be.

Seem a bit anal to me, I don't wont to fxck about calibrating something thats accurate enough anyway.

On top of that the sensor is not granular enough to support accurate level control.

If that's really the case then you are saying the feature was designed badly and is isn't really useful even when calibrated. Is that okay with you?

You say your an engineer but you dont seem to understand simply design rules.

make a detection system to aid level horizons
make it for X cost

Doe the k5 meet the required design constraints.?

sensor Granularity and accuracy is greater then the camber of the horizon so yes.

As an engineer you know the going rate for a low accuracy inclinometer ?

Let me enlighten you

a 1 degree accurate unit will cost about £50 ($80)
dual axis hi accuracy about £100 ($160)

both single chip solutions but much to expensive as an horizon aid for a camera.

So I'm saying the 'feature' was designed very cleverly and is 'fit for purpose'

So now you tell me were you need greater accuracy than the K5 provides.?

lets assume it can deliver

Linear Range 90°
Resolution 1°
Null Repeatability 3°
Cross Axis Error 1% upto 45°
Time Constant .5 sec
Freq. Response (-3db) .5 hz
Linearity
Null to 10° .5°
10 to 90° 3%
Temperature Coefficient
Null .01° °C
Scale Factor .3°
°C

Just guessing at the figures but there probably not far out and at least give us a metric to discuss from.

So is this accurate enough and if not lets see some of your
"a few lines of code would give user access to a simple recalibration procedure"

I am cynical given you called the inclinometer an accelerometer pretty much akin to calling a light switch a plug. !!

Don't forget to throw in some temperature correction in your calibration routines.

I wait with excitement to see even a working flow diagram from you for such a simple thing !

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SRT201
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Re: This is a good point; let's keep the flamewar out of it
In reply to Matthew Miller, Apr 12, 2012

Quite true.

I saw some posts about level calibration and didn't think much of it other than the fact that people had not found the calibration setting on the menu. Honestly it's just one of those things I take as a given when a design includes a component that must be calibrated and can lose that calibration in the field.

So... when I learned there was NO way for users to fix the calibration I was stunned. It's frankly basic engineering unless you're trying to create a product that will generate service revenue.

I doubt Ned Bunnell reads this forum so the question is how to ask politely.

Thanks for the reply.

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SRT201
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Re: Yeah, right.
In reply to someuy, Apr 12, 2012

I'm talking about camera issues what are you here for?

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Richard Smals
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Is there even one brand now that can do this?
In reply to SRT201, Apr 12, 2012

I had a Canon 7D which was more crooked with the electronic level then my K-5, the latter is perfect: tested with a Black and Decker laser level.

But Canon, Nikon has no calibration function? Or do the new bodies have calibration???

So if the other brands don't have it..why is that? I think it's a good idea but to blame Pentax for not having it in capital letters (shouting) is putting me of your post.

It's more an open forum thread then.

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chiane
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Re: srt201
In reply to SRT201, Apr 12, 2012

SRT201 wrote:

You are a drama queen. Start of the story, end of the story. I can't imagine what it's like to deal with you in real life as a customer of anything. Yikes. I will bet my bottom dollar you are 'that guy' that drives anyone he deals with completely nuts with unrealistic demands, expectations, and general insanity that makes people sorry people like you exist.

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someuy
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Re: Yeah, right.
In reply to SRT201, Apr 12, 2012

SRT201 wrote:

I'm talking about camera issues what are you here for?

This thread? For entertainment purposes only.

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SRT201
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Re: The K-5 level CAN go out of calibration
In reply to awaldram, Apr 12, 2012

awaldram wrote:

I am cynical given you called the inclinometer an accelerometer pretty much akin to calling a light switch a plug. !!

These solid state devices are all variations on the same silicon finger accelerometer concept. We aren't talking about some 20-year-old bb-in-convex-cup design.

Take a close look at the block diagram for the Analog Devices ADIS16201. You will notice there is no block for a separate "inclinometer" only that for a dual-axis accelerometer which is how the inclinometer function is provided.

Also note the temperature sensor and calibration blocks. It's all there just as it no doubt is there in the K-5.

http://www.analog.com/en/mems-sensors/mems-inertial-sensors/adis16201/products/product.html

Don't forget to throw in some temperature correction in your calibration routines.

I wait with excitement to see even a working flow diagram from you for such a simple thing !

Honestly that's just baiting...

I'm simply suggesting that the advertised feature should work and not actually create off-level photos. When that happens a simple user calibration should be available. Is that too much to ask?

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SRT201
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Re: srt201
In reply to chiane, Apr 12, 2012

Thanks troll

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SRT201
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Okay... I'm sorry for the ALL CAPS
In reply to SRT201, Apr 12, 2012

Poor choice on my part...

...but I'm still amazed at this lacking design. As Richard Smals points out, the other guys don't provide calibration either (or at least none he knew of) and apparently don't work well either. If that's the case I'm again rather amazed.

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Alex Sarbu
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Re: Okay... I'm sorry for the ALL CAPS
In reply to SRT201, Apr 12, 2012

SRT201 wrote:

Poor choice on my part...

...but I'm still amazed at this lacking design. As Richard Smals points out, the other guys don't provide calibration either (or at least none he knew of) and apparently don't work well either. If that's the case I'm again rather amazed.

Would you to Canon and Nikon forums and open threads similar with this one, telling everyone about how pathetic those brands are? Not using caps is fine.

Alex

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