SD1 vs D800 Locked

Started Apr 11, 2012 | Discussions
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Gate bois
Regular MemberPosts: 271
SD1 vs D800
Apr 11, 2012

SD1

D800

SD1

D800

SD1

D800

Nikon D800 Sigma SD1
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DaSigmaGuy
Forum ProPosts: 12,276Gear list
Re: SD1 vs D800
In reply to Gate bois, Apr 11, 2012

Gate bois wrote:

SD1

D800

SD1

D800

SD1

D800

The D800 is clearly resolving far more detail.

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Gate bois
Regular MemberPosts: 271
Re: SD1 vs D800
In reply to DaSigmaGuy, Apr 11, 2012

SD1

D800

SD1

D800

tam ille
Junior MemberPosts: 47
Re: SD1 vs D800
In reply to Gate bois, Apr 11, 2012

Both are good cameras...

For what I do, I'll stay Sigma (have some good lenses, don't need the extras Nikon provide). For pro use, I guess a sd1 and a D800 are good complements (d800 on the street, SD1 at studio and landscape). Whatever, I use my SDs for street shooting, as I do not have any other choice...).

zzapamiga
Regular MemberPosts: 497
Re: SD1 vs D800
In reply to Gate bois, Apr 11, 2012

The D800 is resolving more detail but not a lot more. The SD1 is the equivalent of a 30MP Bayer sensor as Sigma claims. Actually if you look at the red cloth on top of the blue cloth to the top right of the ladies head the SD1 is outresolving the D800. Sigma really need to bring out a FF sensor. That would really shake up the camera industry.

gbainbridge
Senior MemberPosts: 2,753
Re: SD1 vs D800
In reply to Gate bois, Apr 11, 2012

I would like to know which is has more accurate red in those shots.

To me the SD1 looks slightly under-saturated, but the Nikon reds are very pink.

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Gary.

KAllen
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,743Gear list
Re: SD1 vs D800
In reply to zzapamiga, Apr 11, 2012

zzapamiga wrote:

The D800 is resolving more detail but not a lot more. The SD1 is the equivalent of a 30MP Bayer sensor as Sigma claims. Actually if you look at the red cloth on top of the blue cloth to the top right of the ladies head the SD1 is outresolving the D800. Sigma really need to bring out a FF sensor. That would really shake up the camera industry.

I have no axe to grind here, but where exactly is the 800 resolving more detail?

To me it looks like the SD1 shows fine detail much better than the 800. The 800 looks mushy to me with anything fluffy.

I shoot with Canon and I see nothing that Canon can offer me with the resolution of the Sigma. I'm a firm believer that resolution is often only a small part of making a good image and other things are far more important. But I do have a need for something that can render detail in buildings, to me other than MF the Sigma looks like a clear leader.
I think the edge sharpness on the Sigma is exceptional.

Kevin.

DaSigmaGuy
Forum ProPosts: 12,276Gear list
Re: SD1 vs D800
In reply to KAllen, Apr 11, 2012

KAllen wrote:

zzapamiga wrote:

The D800 is resolving more detail but not a lot more. The SD1 is the equivalent of a 30MP Bayer sensor as Sigma claims. Actually if you look at the red cloth on top of the blue cloth to the top right of the ladies head the SD1 is outresolving the D800. Sigma really need to bring out a FF sensor. That would really shake up the camera industry.

I have no axe to grind here, but where exactly is the 800 resolving more detail?

Try the back of the Blue Volkswagen Beetle and the globe.

The D800 has shallower DOF than the SD1 so its possible that the D800 samples are slightly OOF, and the D800 shots were taken at a aperture where diffraction softening has obviously occured. I like to see the same samples but taken at f4 or f5.6, on both cameras.

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MT
MT
Senior MemberPosts: 1,838
Re: SD1 vs D800
In reply to KAllen, Apr 11, 2012

I too see more detail in the Sigma than the D800. Impressive.

If they can get that sensor into a small fixed lens f1.4 20mm or so lens on a body the size of the Sony NEX 5n (which I had), it would be absolutely incredible pocket camera!

MTMT

KAllen wrote:

zzapamiga wrote:

The D800 is resolving more detail but not a lot more. The SD1 is the equivalent of a 30MP Bayer sensor as Sigma claims. Actually if you look at the red cloth on top of the blue cloth to the top right of the ladies head the SD1 is outresolving the D800. Sigma really need to bring out a FF sensor. That would really shake up the camera industry.

I have no axe to grind here, but where exactly is the 800 resolving more detail?

To me it looks like the SD1 shows fine detail much better than the 800. The 800 looks mushy to me with anything fluffy.

I shoot with Canon and I see nothing that Canon can offer me with the resolution of the Sigma. I'm a firm believer that resolution is often only a small part of making a good image and other things are far more important. But I do have a need for something that can render detail in buildings, to me other than MF the Sigma looks like a clear leader.
I think the edge sharpness on the Sigma is exceptional.

Kevin.

rjjr
Veteran MemberPosts: 6,701
Compare it to the D800E
In reply to Gate bois, Apr 11, 2012

That'd be a more accurate comparison since the D800E also doesn't suffer from the effects of an AA filter.

Rudi
Contributing MemberPosts: 633
Re: SD1 vs D800
In reply to DaSigmaGuy, Apr 11, 2012

...what you are talking about DOF ? The Sigma shots were taken with 50mm at f8, while the D800 shots were taken with 85mm at f11. There should not be very much difference in DOF, don´t you think so ?

DMillier
Forum ProPosts: 17,985
Hate to throw a spanner in the works...
In reply to Gate bois, Apr 11, 2012

I'd be very happy to have a flaw in my method pointed out but unless someone can do so, I'm going to have to throughly disagree with everyone who thinks the SD1 outresolves the D800.

I downloaded the first pair of images from the "original link".

I then resized both crops to a common size (I chose 1500px wide, it could have been anything)

I then loaded both resized crops into an editing package, aligned them on top of each other and flicked back and forth between them.

Unless I've blundered, the D800 is miles better. No contest at all. Don't know how people have arrived at the conclusions they have.

Please spot the blunder because I'm amazed at the difference...

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rjjr
Veteran MemberPosts: 6,701
Re: Hate to throw a spanner in the works...
In reply to DMillier, Apr 11, 2012

DMillier wrote:

I'd be very happy to have a flaw in my method pointed out but unless someone can do so, I'm going to have to throughly disagree with everyone who thinks the SD1 outresolves the D800.

I downloaded the first pair of images from the "original link".

I then resized both crops to a common size (I chose 1500px wide, it could have been anything)

I then loaded both resized crops into an editing package, aligned them on top of each other and flicked back and forth between them.

Unless I've blundered, the D800 is miles better. No contest at all. Don't know how people have arrived at the conclusions they have.

Please spot the blunder because I'm amazed at the difference...

Did you get the files mixed up?

I followed your process with opposite results which is why I'd like to see the SD1 compared to the D800e due to difference in the AA filter.

DaSigmaGuy
Forum ProPosts: 12,276Gear list
Re: SD1 vs D800
In reply to Rudi, Apr 11, 2012

Rudi wrote:

...what you are talking about DOF ? The Sigma shots were taken with 50mm at f8, while the D800 shots were taken with 85mm at f11. There should not be very much difference in DOF, don´t you think so ?

But there will be in diffraction!

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rjjr
Veteran MemberPosts: 6,701
Re: SD1 vs D800
In reply to DaSigmaGuy, Apr 11, 2012

DaSigmaGuy wrote:

Rudi wrote:

...what you are talking about DOF ? The Sigma shots were taken with 50mm at f8, while the D800 shots were taken with 85mm at f11. There should not be very much difference in DOF, don´t you think so ?

But there will be in diffraction!

True

J1000
Senior MemberPosts: 1,339
Re: SD1 vs D800
In reply to DaSigmaGuy, Apr 11, 2012

DaSigmaGuy wrote:

KAllen wrote:

zzapamiga wrote:

The D800 is resolving more detail but not a lot more. The SD1 is the equivalent of a 30MP Bayer sensor as Sigma claims. Actually if you look at the red cloth on top of the blue cloth to the top right of the ladies head the SD1 is outresolving the D800. Sigma really need to bring out a FF sensor. That would really shake up the camera industry.

I have no axe to grind here, but where exactly is the 800 resolving more detail?

Try the back of the Blue Volkswagen Beetle and the globe.

The D800 has shallower DOF than the SD1 so its possible that the D800 samples are slightly OOF, and the D800 shots were taken at a aperture where diffraction softening has obviously occured. I like to see the same samples but taken at f4 or f5.6, on both cameras.

Clearly defined color boundaries as seen in the globe are far easier for an algorithm to distinguish from sensor noise. I would say the details on the globe are about the same between the two. A lot of the details in the picture can be matched by the D800 by applying the right amount of sharpening. But the SD1 seems fairly unbeatable with some of the subtleties such as the mesh right above the fur.

We shouldn't be shocked at this, considering it's a completely different sensor technology.

Paulo Ferreira
Senior MemberPosts: 1,837Gear list
Missing the point...
In reply to Gate bois, Apr 11, 2012

You have more??? detail on the 800 bcause the image is bigger.

I already asked dpreview to do this quite a few times but helas they prefer not too (conspiracy theorists please elaborate).
Use the SD1 file from RAW and with SPP "double" it

Use the 800 file and upsize it to 60MP. THEN show the same crop. You might be surprised...
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MrBlissfly
Regular MemberPosts: 269
Re: Hate to throw a spanner in the works...
In reply to DMillier, Apr 11, 2012

Download the Raw files and have a play rather than use these crops.
The SD1 is very impressive here and shot with the 17-50 @50mm.

The grape images look very good for texture, exceeds any non MFB bayer I've used, colour is way off though.
At around £1700 still proving too hot for me.

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calxn
Contributing MemberPosts: 797Gear list
Are these the artifacts in the Sigma that the DPreview commented on?
In reply to Gate bois, Apr 11, 2012

These crinkly artifacts when resolution is beyond extinction point. I'm really not sure. In any case, the SD1's resolution does look good, even if the colors are not accurate and the DR is low as is usually the case with Foveon. I just can't see how you guys can put up with the post processing pain or long write time. The write time is not because of the massive files. I believe the D800 have bigger files and write much faster than the Sigma.

brittonx
Senior MemberPosts: 2,387Gear list
Re: Are these the artifacts in the Sigma that the DPreview commented on?
In reply to calxn, Apr 11, 2012

calxn wrote:

These crinkly artifacts when resolution is beyond extinction point. I'm really not sure. In any case, the SD1's resolution does look good, even if the colors are not accurate and the DR is low as is usually the case with Foveon. I just can't see how you guys can put up with the post processing pain or long write time. The write time is not because of the massive files. I believe the D800 have bigger files and write much faster than the Sigma.

We "put up with it" because we love the IQ and the images we get from the Foveon sensor. While it looks like DR is not great, the reality is when you expose properly , shoot RAW, and process in SPP, there is a tremendous amount of good image data there that is well beyond what is seen in the JPGs.

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