Choosing the 5D mark iii over the D800

Started Apr 10, 2012 | Discussions
Shotcents
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Re: Going through the same mental machinations..............
In reply to schmegg, Apr 10, 2012

Schmegg, with all due respect:

He wants to shoot landscape, architecture and portraits. The D800 has every important advantage for that type of work. For the casual enthusiast these cameras are close enough, but if he wants to push a few limits the D800 will be a better tool.

Let's not be so PC that we gloss over basic facts!

There! You get a smiley face.

Robert

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Sten E
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Re: Choosing the 5D mark iii over the D800
In reply to harold1968, Apr 10, 2012

Thank you, harold!

-- hide signature --

Best regards,

Sten

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ScottieC
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Re: Choosing the 5D mark iii over the D800
In reply to harold1968, Apr 10, 2012

I would not consider one camera better than the other. They are both great tools, and your not going to go wrong with either one.

It's a matter of which tool works best for you and how well you know how to use your tool. For example, it was mentioned that the D800/E has a Autofocus assist light which makes it easier to use AF in the dark and very low light situations. Well there is the ST-E2 that takes care of that issue.

harold1968 wrote:

This is my second thread hinting at/asking advice for my coming decision

I want to re-enter the world of FF DSLRs for certain things, mainly landscape, architecture and portraits.

Last time my post, a few weeks ago, was asking for advice in this forum between these cameras.
Surprising an overwhelming number of people advised me to get the D800 :-S

I therefore wanted to test the water again as I am, against advice, swinging towards the 5D mark iii

The D800 has an advantage in three areas (only the first is of major significance):

1: Pixel count. For me, contrary to the myths spread, is mainly useful for cropping and for people pictures. I don't believe this is a tangeable benefit to landscapes.
2: Better control ergonomics (more, and well placed, dials).

3: Cheaper. Although the cost thing is a bit of a red herring. Everyone with any experience here knows that camera prices after 6 months bear no relation to RRP, merely to the market level.

The 5D Mark iii has advantages in the following areas:

1: Speed. A combination of FPS and speed of operation. I have tried the mark iii and it feels a difference world of responsiveness from the mark ii - all those who say the mark ii is "good enough" for them better not try the mark iii, best you guys don't know

2: Focus. Reviews by pros consistently give the mark iii a lead over the D800. Perhaps this will be corrected in software later but my own experience of the mark iii is very encouraging.

3: Handling ergonomics. Hands down the mark iii grip and feeling is better then the D800. Not to mention that it is lighter

4: Lenses. Not that much in it but 24mm, 50mm and 85mm being my goto focal lengths I believe the Canon system has the edge.
5: Canon colours. D800 still has those family skin tone and saturation traits

What about problems ? Some mark iii angst about light leaks which has yet to have any proven effect on anything and any proof that its either unique, or an issue

more serious with the D800:
1. CLS malfunction
2. Batches of LCDs with colour problems
3. Batches of AF systems with bank malfunctions

all these things, together with slightly more trust in Canon's distribution and support network, are tilting me towards the mark iii

Make sense. Do I sound sane ? I need to make a decision pretty soon

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Shotcents
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Re: Choosing the 5D mark iii over the D800
In reply to aftab, Apr 10, 2012

aftab wrote:

I have seen lots of amazing pictures from D800, but they are of very limited kind. All of these are pictures showing excellent detail when viewed very large. So, D800's main advantage over 5D3 would be
If you print large regularly
If you want to crop a lot

And definitely there is a DR advantage, how much and how important we don't know yet.

On the other hand lots of people (not all of course) are having problem with focusing still subjects, let alone moving subjects. And other problems that you have mentioned.

I have seen lots of amazing pictures from 5D3 too, and they are of all kinds. This seems to be a camera which is capable of taking excellent images in all sorts of situations and subjects. Theoretically D800 should be able to the same if not better, but I have not seen that many examples yet.

So, let me put it this way.
With D800, you are most likely to be happy.
With 5D3, you will surely be happy.
--

I feel that this type of post is simply a backhanded slap at the Nikon. I had NO trouble focusing and experienced shooters are reporting better results than the 3Ds. Naturally you'll see people struggling with ANY new camera as they did with the 7D, D7000, 5DII and so on. You can't get caught up with newbie frustrations. With so many more people buying the D800 than the 5DIII you're going to see a LOT of people struggling to get used to the camera.

If you have doubts then wait for REAL tests of both AF systems back-to-back. I believe Nikon will have the better accuracy by a hair. But we'll see.

Robert

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Shotcents
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Re: Choosing the 5D mark iii over the D800
In reply to Shotcents, Apr 10, 2012

One more little item....regarding "issues"

There are reports of BOTH cameras locking up now and I know for a FACT that there are firmware bugs.

My friend, who owns both has had issues with both and one of them had a mechanical defect. I'm not looking to add fuel to a fire as this is common upon release, but claiming that either camera has trouble because of early teething pains is bad form. Both are likely to be robust and reliable DSLRs no different from previous ones.

Harold, if this sort of thing worries you, then wait. You'll also have the benefit of seeing ALL of the tests and not having buyer's remorse.

Best of luck,

Robert

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Macgupta
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Re: Choosing the 5D mark iii over the D800
In reply to harold1968, Apr 10, 2012

Cameras are in part, a personal thing.

Also, quoting from here:

http://blog.mingthein.com/2012/04/10/potd-and-off-topic-test-drive-notes-of-a-different-sort/

"Conclusion: newer isn’t always better, often the refinements mean that what you’re going to use it with (i.e. the engine and options, in this case) is almost equally as important as how you’re going to use it. As a consumer, don’t always get fooled into thinking that you need to change something. Just because a new model is out doesn’t in any way reduce the capability of the existing model you own: yes, it might be better for some things, but if those things aren’t important to you, then why spend more money? You’d be surprised at the number of emails I’ve been getting in the last few days asking ‘D800 or D700?’ when clearly the person using the camera has no need for large file sizes, but every need for speed or higher ISO. Know what you need your tools to do first before you buy them. MT"

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MX_shooter
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Re: Choosing the 5D mark iii over the D800
In reply to Sten E, Apr 10, 2012

I wish a speedy recovery for you! Life is too short and we should treat ourselves to some splurging at times.

That leica option sounds cool too! The small size and the manual focus lenses can be liberating and zen like. If my shooting was purely for enjoyment, id prolly go with manual focus lenses all the way. Twisting the smooth focus ring is very therapeutic (I kinda miss my CZ 50mm now)

maybe you can add a fuji xpro body + m mount adapter for low light shooting. Iso6400 on that body is pretty good.

Sten E wrote:

Well guys,

I have a serious disease and I am thinking of celebrating a little if I get well enough and if I feel that I can stay that way for a considerable time. I have been thinking of then buying a Leica M9P or a Canon 5D Mark III, and I ended up deciding the 5D with 6 fine L lenses - really something to look forward to. I discarded the the Nikon D800 because of its low light capability.

But this discussion has changed my mind a little. Now I will really look at the D800 alternative, including the lenses. I have the time to do so, because the treatment of my illness will take months.

-- hide signature --

Best regards,

Sten

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schmegg
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Re: Going through the same mental machinations..............
In reply to Shotcents, Apr 10, 2012

Shotcents wrote:

Schmegg, with all due respect:

He wants to shoot landscape, architecture and portraits. The D800 has every important advantage for that type of work. For the casual enthusiast these cameras are close enough, but if he wants to push a few limits the D800 will be a better tool.

Shotcents, with all due respect ... they are his words, not mine.

And besides, he didn't say anything to dispute what you are banging on about in your almost fanboy-like defence of the D800 above. LOL!

I think your emotionally invested in this, aren't you.

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Macgupta
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Re: Choosing the 5D mark iii over the D800
In reply to Shotcents, Apr 10, 2012

I totally endorse this. Unless there is a really urgent need, don't be the beta tester/guinea pig, and that too, paying top dollar for that "privilege". Likely the prices will come down, the firmware bugs will be fixed, all vendors would have fixed their software support, and so on, if you can afford to wait.

Shotcents wrote:

One more little item....regarding "issues"

There are reports of BOTH cameras locking up now and I know for a FACT that there are firmware bugs.

My friend, who owns both has had issues with both and one of them had a mechanical defect. I'm not looking to add fuel to a fire as this is common upon release, but claiming that either camera has trouble because of early teething pains is bad form. Both are likely to be robust and reliable DSLRs no different from previous ones.

Harold, if this sort of thing worries you, then wait. You'll also have the benefit of seeing ALL of the tests and not having buyer's remorse.

Best of luck,

Robert

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David Cheok Photography
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Re: Choosing the 5D mark iii over the D800
In reply to Macgupta, Apr 10, 2012

IMHO.. my 2 cts worth.. is this...

You shouldnt be looking at the cameras. You should be doing this.

1) Look at the lenses available to both systems. Compare whether in the future, which of these lenses will satisfy your needs. Lenses are the key assets that locks a photographer to his tools and will overall cost a lot more than the cameras itself (which you will change like soiled underwear over time). Both Nikon and Canon and third party manufacturers offer a wide assortment of lenses but if you study them closely, some are slightly more specialised towards certain kinds of work whilst others are more general. Decide where you COULD be and decide which line of products you will more LIKELY acquire over time.

2) Consider the support if you think you could be a professional in your chosen genre and whether support plays an important part. Some areas have better support for one whilst others have none at all. Is it important to have fast and efficient support? Does your location dealers/service centers suit your requirements?

After you have narrowed the two things above down, your choice is simple.

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marianco
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The D800 is like a 5D MkIII plus 7D
In reply to aftab, Apr 10, 2012

The high resolution of the D800 allows you to travel with a lighter pack of lenses than the 5D MkIII.

When you crop the D800 to the equivalent of APS-c frame, you get the same number of pixels as the Canon 7D, with the same photo quality or better. You can't do this with the 5D MkIII.

Thus is a huge advantage when traveling since you get better reach with your lenses using the D800 versus the 5D MkIII. The 75-300 mm lens on the 5D MkIII is now a 75 mm to 450 mm lens on the D800. The 24-105 mm lens on the 5D MkIII is now a 24-160 mm lens on the D800.

You can thus pack smaller and lighter lenses when traveling with the D800 than the 5D MkIII.

Thus the D800 is like having both the 5D MkIII AND the 7D simultaneously. This is a huge advantage. You get the best of both full-frame and APS-c cameras with one camera.

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bobn2
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Re: Choosing the 5D mark iii over the D800
In reply to harold1968, Apr 10, 2012

harold1968 wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

4: Lenses. Not that much in it but 24mm, 50mm and 85mm being my goto focal lengths I believe the Canon system has the edge.

At those FL's Canon wins on the top of the range at 50 and 85, no question (but then you don't seem concerned about lens quality, since you are not concerned about the similar benefits of higher sensor resolution).

Of course I am concerned about lens quality.

Yet you dismiss the ver similar 'quality' that comes from more pixels. Raising the camera MTF with more pixels has the same affect on the system MTF as raising the lens' MTF.

Is it all pixels ? there is also the quality of a pixel. A D700 pixel was better then a 5D mark i pixel

in terms of MTF, it is number of pixels, until we get to low exposure levels where the noise is enough to degrade the camera MTF. Fortunately, the D800 has very high quality pixels, far better than the 5Dc, or D700, so the issue of 'quality' of pixels is a red herring in this context.

A Canon 50mm f1.2 has a draw I particularly like. Does this mean a Nikon 50mm f1.4 will be better simply due to the extra pixels. i don't think so

A Nikon 50/1.4G on a D800 will comfortably outperform a Canon 50/1.2L on a 5DIII. What it won't do is provide the bokeh quality that people love that lens for.

You sound like someone trying to justify your choice by dissing the thing that isn't your choice. Why not just say that the things that the 5DIII does very well are what you want. No need to put down the D800 to justify yourself.

I wasn't aware I was putting down the D800 at all. On the contrary praising it.

Damning with faint praise is the expression that comes to mind. You seemed to omkt many of the D800's real plus points, and spuriously declare the 5DIII better in others with no evidence.

Of course I am trying to justify one way or the other. You seem to be pro D800 which is fine, but I am sure you have your own reasons

Indeed, I have my own reasons. But, you posted your reasons in a web thread, which is an open invitation to dispute them where they are based on misinformation.
--
Bob

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DocS
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Don’t forget these two items in favor of 5DMk3
In reply to harold1968, Apr 10, 2012

1. Higher ISO range (102,400 if I remember correctly).
2. Less noise, especially at ISO settings of 800 and above.

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jakdaniel975
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Re: Don’t forget these two items in favor of 5DMk3
In reply to DocS, Apr 10, 2012

41 cross type well distributed vs 15 Only the center !!!!

nikon hdmi no compress only 1080 interlaced with moire !!!!!!!

25600 iso usable in low light !! nikon 25600 usable in the studio with abundant light !!!

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M Mason
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Re: Choosing the 5D mark iii over the D800
In reply to harold1968, Apr 10, 2012

Please let me know if I'm getting too technically detailed in this type of decision, I can be anal about these things:

I make the majority of my high priced purchasing decisions by color. Looking at the pictures, the new N and the new C are very close to the same shade of black. I've decided, after several hours of review, that I cannot distinguish enough difference to use body color in this case.

So I would like to flip a coin. Also not as simple as it first seems. Both cameras are made in Japan, so I am inclined to pick a yen coin to properly make the decision for me. Having a hard time finding a Japanese coin. Found a Taiwanese coin, but don't think that is close enough. On the other hand, I will be using $ USD for the purchase, so should I be flipping a US coin? If so, which one. A quarter seems too small a denomination for a purchasing decision this large. I've been calling around to local banks, and found a couple that have gold coins. They are in plastic holders which could influence which side they land on, so this approach may be biased.

Anyone else try this method? Any help would be appreciated.

Mark

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Shotcents
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Re: Don’t forget these two items in favor of 5DMk3
In reply to DocS, Apr 10, 2012

DocS wrote:

1. Higher ISO range (102,400 if I remember correctly).
2. Less noise, especially at ISO settings of 800 and above.> > >

1) The "higher" ISO range is not usable on any of these cameras unless you're looking for shots of Bigfoot in his cave.

2) The D800 is as good, better than or not quite as good as the 5DIII at high ISO's. It's close, VERY close and with the D800's 40% higher resolution, the D800 has a breakout sensor. At very high ISO's, even above the 6400, the D800 retains more detail, which gives you more lattitude in post to clean up an image.

My favorite real world advantages of the 5DIII?

I'm verrrrry annoyed that Nikon doesn't have the Canon setting controls c1-c2-c3. It's a fantastic feature that every DSLR should have. Other than that, if you have the ability to choose, the evidence leans well in favor of the D800.

The fellow who mentioned the D800 being two cameras in one is exactly right, but it's more like three! With all those MP it can behave like my wife's D7000 and even use her DX lenses. Or I can set it to 1.2 crop and then it's like the 5DIII but with 25 mp and still retain the sensor advantages and also give 5 FPS. Pretty slick.

Robert

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Shotcents
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Re: Choosing the 5D mark iii over the D800
In reply to M Mason, Apr 10, 2012

M Mason wrote:

Please let me know if I'm getting too technically detailed in this type of decision, I can be anal about these things:

I make the majority of my high priced purchasing decisions by color. Looking at the pictures, the new N and the new C are very close to the same shade of black. I've decided, after several hours of review, that I cannot distinguish enough difference to use body color in this case.

So I would like to flip a coin. Also not as simple as it first seems. Both cameras are made in Japan, so I am inclined to pick a yen coin to properly make the decision for me. Having a hard time finding a Japanese coin. Found a Taiwanese coin, but don't think that is close enough. On the other hand, I will be using $ USD for the purchase, so should I be flipping a US coin? If so, which one. A quarter seems too small a denomination for a purchasing decision this large. I've been calling around to local banks, and found a couple that have gold coins. They are in plastic holders which could influence which side they land on, so this approach may be biased.

Anyone else try this method? Any help would be appreciated.

Mark

This is not the way to make your decision.

Go with:

The taller camera (Nikon)
The heavier camera (Canon)
The camera that can be throw farthest (Tie)

Rats! That didn't help at all.

Robert

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essemmlee
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Re: Choosing the 5D mark iii over the D800
In reply to Shotcents, Apr 10, 2012

Having move to the 5DIII from the D3S I can say that my reasoning was little to do with the camera. Nikon do not yet have a quality equivalent to the 50/1.2 and the 85/1.2. They are undoubtedly the best lenses I've ever used |(and I've had Leica Noctilux, Summilux 1.4 etc) and provide the most supreme colourful and sharp images.

Nikon has some great lenses but these 2 can't be matched. In addition I feel (note 'feel') that the Canon 70-200 2.8VRII and the 135/2 also don't have great Nikon equivalents.

Never mind the megapixels, the ergonomics, the AF, the frames per second and all the rest of the overwhelming technical data; when the glass is good the images are better.

Buy the Canon.

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M Mason
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Re: Choosing the 5D mark iii over the D800
In reply to Shotcents, Apr 10, 2012

This is not the way to make your decision.

Go with:

The taller camera (Nikon)
The heavier camera (Canon)
The camera that can be throw farthest (Tie)

Rats! That didn't help at all.

Robert

Robert,

Do you know how the neck straps compare between these two models (I mean, other than color and logo)? Perhaps I need to wait for the more formal reviews to evaluate which battery recharges the quickest.

Mark

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joema1
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Re: Choosing the 5D mark iii over the D800
In reply to harold1968, Apr 10, 2012

harold1968 wrote:

The D800 has an advantage in three areas...The 5D Mark iii has advantages in the following areas

The areas you mentioned are commonly-discussed, unfortunately to the near-exclusion of other areas which may impact a decision. Having shot with Nikon for years and recently got a 5D3, here are some thoughts:

  • 5D3 has three "silent" shooting modes, inc'l ability to shoot 3 fps continuously in phase-detect AI Servo mode. It can shoot 6 fps in Live View Silent Mode 1, albeit with a single focus lock. The D800 can shoot one frame in its quiet mode. This is a major difference if you shoot in quiet venues. I don't know what the db difference is -- everyone here is too busy talking about megapixels to measure or even discuss things like this.

  • 5D3 has only on/off for confirmation beeps. Cheap $20 mp3 players have more control over beep volume. D800 has high/med/low volume, plus high/low pitch. If you rely on audible confirmation of single-shot AF in quiet venues the Nikon adjustability is much better.

  • 5D3 has spot metering in center only, it doesn't follow the active AF point. This means you must use exposure lock to recompose when using spot metering.

  • 5D3 auto ISO min. shutter speed only goes to 1/250 sec. No idea why that limitation exists -- the D800 goes to 1/4000 sec.

  • With flash, 5D3 auto ISO is hard-coded to ISO 400. I think the D800 retains full auto ISO when using flash.

  • 5D3 (and other Canons) have separate flash exposure compensation vs regular EC. You can independently adjust these from direct camera controls, which is nice. That said it seems like the Nikon flash system is more consistent.

  • 5D3 SD card slot not UHS-1 compliant. The 5D3 requires a UDMA-7 CF card for max continuous shooting speed (about 100 MB/sec). The fastest data rate supported for a SD card is about 20 MB/sec. If you shoot raw sequences, this is a factor. OTOH, the SD card slot is usable for Eye-Fi or other add-on purposes. I think the D800 can probably shoot as fast to SD as it can CF.

  • 5D3 has no lighted AF point in Servo AI mode. Since it can shoot at ISO 102,400, this means you often can't see the AF point for dark subjects. Workaround is just move AF point back and forth with multi-controller and it lights up. I don't know what the D800 behavior is -- everyone here too busy talking about megapixels to discuss real-world items like this.

  • 5D3 has 9-point AF expansion, next jump is 61-pt. D800 has 9-pt, 21-pt, and 51-point (Dynamic-Area AF). A small thing but having 21-point mode is nice.

  • 5D3 has no top LCD panel display of AF area selection mode. Are you in single pt, 4-point expansion, 9-pt expansion, zone AF? You can't tell without looking through the viewfinder or at a menu. Nikon shows this on the top LCD panel.

  • D800 has direct two-button access to card reformat function. 5D3 requires using menus, although you can assign it to "My Menu" for faster access. Sounds like a small thing but if you shoot lots of material you change & reformat cards a lot.

  • D800 has continuous AF in video mode, 5D3 requires pressing a button plus disturbs the exposure if done when shooting. In most cases you wouldn't use video AF (whether Nikon or Canon) for serious material -- to much risk of blowing a shot and no creative control over focus. That said it's more convenient to have full-time video AF, however limited.

  • 5D3 has both free run and rec run timecode for video shooting; D800 has none. If you do multi-camera shoots or use 2nd system sound this is a major thing.

Overall I like the 5D3 and am happy with it. These are just some thoughts from a long-time Nikon shooter who got a 5D3.

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