Pentax will price themselves out of the market

Started Apr 8, 2012 | Discussions
hqphoto
Forum MemberPosts: 52Gear list
Like?
Pentax will price themselves out of the market
Apr 8, 2012

What is going on with Pentax?

Being a former Pentax user, I have a soft spot for the company. I loved the K100D and the K200D. I always felt that these were some of the better cameras to use for most things, but ended up having to switch for reasons not stated here.

But the prices of there lenses now are a bit outlandish. I used to think that if they got certain things right and with their affordable lenses, they would be a perfect system: K5, 16-50, 60-250, and a few of the well regarded primes would make a good kit.

With the current prices though, Pentax seem to be pricing themselves out of the market in the APS-C segment. Their lens prices now seem to be ridiculous. The 60-250 now at US$2000 is overpriced. The lens I used to brag about is now more expensive than a canon 70 - 200 f4 L series stabilized lens. WOW!!

What a blow this is to a great little company. If it were the perfect system in every aspect, then you can pay a premium for it. Unfortunately it is not. and the price premium will send prospective buyers running away or looking for 3rd party lenses to fit their needs if they really want the body.

Sorry Pentax. I love you, but feel you have signed a death warrant with your new lens prices.

 hqphoto's gear list:hqphoto's gear list
Nikon D5100 Nikon D600 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm f/1.8G Tokina AT-X Pro 11-16mm f/2.8 DX +7 more
Pentax K100D Pentax K200D Pentax K-5
If you believe there are incorrect tags, please send us this post using our feedback form.
Voff
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,402
Like?
Re: Pentax will price themselves out of the market
In reply to hqphoto, Apr 8, 2012

$2000 is dirt cheap. Checked the value of the dollar lately?

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Maxwell Smart
Senior MemberPosts: 2,947
Like?
Re: Pentax will price themselves out of the market
In reply to hqphoto, Apr 8, 2012

hqphoto wrote:

If it were the perfect system in every aspect, then you can pay a premium for it. Unfortunately it is not. and the price premium will send prospective buyers running away or looking for 3rd party lenses to fit their needs if they really want the body.

Sorry Pentax. I love you, but feel you have signed a death warrant with your new lens prices.

I'm not sure I can agree that the new UPP prices themselves are the core issue. One hopes this is part of a grand plan to improve the Pentax brand and compete with more worthy products.

What bothers me is the idea of raising prices first and then maybe creating products and service to justify those higher prices. A better strategy might have been to create greater value for Pentax customers first and then raise prices in stages. Perhaps something daring and innovative like, I don't know, maybe using ultrasonic ring-type AF motors like Canon and Nikon do in their lenses? Is that too hard for Pentax to manage?

-- hide signature --

Group Captain Mandrake: 'I was tortured by the Japanese, Jack, if you must know; not a pretty story....Strange thing is they make such bloody good cameras.' (Dr. Strangelove, 1964)

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Brentliris
Senior MemberPosts: 2,965Gear list
Like?
Re: Pentax will price themselves out of the market
In reply to Voff, Apr 8, 2012

It't pretty uncomfortable to be presented with the new pricing on the lenses. Especielly for USA consumers. The high prices you are seeing are as not at all dealers. Several maintain the same price level if you shop around.

I bought all of my DA Ltd lenses from about 3 years ago until one year ago. These bought in either in Canada or the USA or France at online dealers ended up costing close enough to the new US prices that the difference from then to now is not enough to really worry about.

What is worrying is that these price increases hit when most everyone is having to tighten their belts in Europe and the USA, so it's bad timing all the way around..

I can only guess why the increases were deemed necessary, but I am sure it's not just a greed driven move.

If I needed a Zoom tomorrow I'd get the Tamron 28-70, I'm getting the K5 and the DA 21 ltd this month.

Good luck to Pentax it a good system for me...

Brent

-- hide signature --

Reflections, understandings, discoveries and intimations..

 Brentliris's gear list:Brentliris's gear list
Pentax K200D Pentax K-5 Pentax smc DA 15mm F4 ED AL Limited Pentax smc DA 21mm F3.2 AL Limited Pentax smc DA 70mm F2.4 AL Limited +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
hqphoto
Forum MemberPosts: 52Gear list
Like?
Re: Pentax will price themselves out of the market
In reply to Voff, Apr 9, 2012

That means that Canons lens prices are beyond dirt cheap...

Just for comparison;

16-50 US$1500 vs Canon 17-55 US$1180

300 f4 US$1400 vs Canon 300 f4 IMAGE STABILIZED US$1450

60-250 f4 US$2000 vs Canon 70-200 L f4 US$1350

200 f2.8 US$1200 vs Canon 200 f2.8 L US$820

The numbers speak for themselves.

If you are starting fresh, then Canon looks very tempting..... even from a Nikon shooter, looking at the entire system.

 hqphoto's gear list:hqphoto's gear list
Nikon D5100 Nikon D600 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm f/1.8G Tokina AT-X Pro 11-16mm f/2.8 DX +7 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Voff
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,402
Like?
Re: Pentax will price themselves out of the market
In reply to hqphoto, Apr 9, 2012

hqphoto wrote:

That means that Canons lens prices are beyond dirt cheap...

...and for how long do you think it will last?

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
hqphoto
Forum MemberPosts: 52Gear list
Like?
Re: Pentax will price themselves out of the market
In reply to Voff, Apr 9, 2012

we can only look at the present. I have no idea about if the Canon Lens prices will raise to the same insanity, but Pentax still has some refinement to go in terms of the bodies to get up to the Canon and Nikon league.

Auto focus for example. This is the reason I switched. I have had to do a lot of people photography in very dark conditions and the Pentax cameras I had just did not focus. I missed alot of shots because of it. This is with an AF360 attached with focus assist light. When switching to a Nikon D90 and an SB600, the difference was night and day. I still miss a few, but much less.

Needless to say that even though I preferred the feel of the Pentax cameras, I just could not afford to be missing shots at weddings and functions as much as I was with the Pentax kit.

So even if the prices become even, there are other issues that will determine things such as auto focus in poor light or tricky situations where from my experience Pentax just struggled compared to the Nikon system, my other point of reference.

 hqphoto's gear list:hqphoto's gear list
Nikon D5100 Nikon D600 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm f/1.8G Tokina AT-X Pro 11-16mm f/2.8 DX +7 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Voff
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,402
Like?
Re: Pentax will price themselves out of the market
In reply to hqphoto, Apr 9, 2012

hqphoto wrote:

Auto focus for example. This is the reason I switched. I have had to do a lot of people photography in very dark conditions and the Pentax cameras I had just did not focus. I missed alot of shots because of it.

I keep hearing these stories but I have yet to miss a single image due to AF with any camera. My Pentax focus in 1s in a big room lighted with one 40W bulb. These AF stories are totally baffling to me. AF have worked great for any brand for at least 20 years...

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
hqphoto
Forum MemberPosts: 52Gear list
Like?
Re: Pentax will price themselves out of the market
In reply to Voff, Apr 9, 2012

how about almost no light but the focus assist light and you can barely see to subject in the viewfinder if at all. I have had that situation numerous times. The Pentax hunts and fails, the Nikon locked and took the shot.

 hqphoto's gear list:hqphoto's gear list
Nikon D5100 Nikon D600 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm f/1.8G Tokina AT-X Pro 11-16mm f/2.8 DX +7 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Raist3d
Forum ProPosts: 31,864Gear list
Like?
I have to partially agree with him...
In reply to Voff, Apr 9, 2012

I did an interesting test today, walking around with my DA 70mm in overcast sky, my DA 70 being adjusted to +2.

It did actually pretty good. Fast forward to the night and the story is different. Now, all cameras the story is different as light falls, sure. Seems that there are some issues where the K-5 becomes somewhat less accurate when it thinks it locked focus.

Voff wrote:

hqphoto wrote:

Auto focus for example. This is the reason I switched. I have had to do a lot of people photography in very dark conditions and the Pentax cameras I had just did not focus. I missed alot of shots because of it.

I keep hearing these stories but I have yet to miss a single image due to AF with any camera. My Pentax focus in 1s in a big room lighted with one 40W bulb. These AF stories are totally baffling to me. AF have worked great for any brand for at least 20 years...

-- hide signature --

Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- "You are taking life too seriously if it bugs you in some way that a guy quotes himself in the .sig quote" - Ricardo

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
snake_b
Senior MemberPosts: 4,680
Like?
Re: Pentax will price themselves out of the market
In reply to Voff, Apr 9, 2012

Obviously, you haven't in about 3+ years.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=EURUSD=X&t=5y&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=

This is another case of perpetuating the myth.

I love how euros get:

1. Jealous of the buying power of another country, especially one that doesn't get choked by taxation (which also includes those that Norway can't control due to being locked in the EEA)

2. When people from another country don't understand how the economics of another country work, since their only reference it purely looking at exchange rates and their own country.
3. The same Euros buy like crazy from the US.

Voff wrote:

$2000 is dirt cheap. Checked the value of the dollar lately?

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
awaldram
Forum ProPosts: 10,464Gear list
Like?
Re: Pentax will price themselves out of the market
In reply to snake_b, Apr 9, 2012

snake_b wrote:

This is another case of perpetuating the myth.

I love how euros get: (US cost in brackets)

1. Jealous of the buying power of another country, especially one that doesn't get choked by taxation

Maybe you should have checked before running up the patriot pole.!
Pentax 16-50 £608 (£946) Cannon 17-55 = £799 (£744)
Pentax 300F4 £914(£883) Cannon 300 f4 IS = £ 1143 (914)

Pentax 60-250 f4 = £1048 (£1261) Cannon 70-200 F4 = £464 (now thats a bargain)(£851)
Pentax 200 f2.8 £749 (£756) Cannon 200 f2.8 = £619 ($517)

If you think our prices (UK) have 20% tax on and yours (US) has 0% then someone is getting rich off your dollar.

As I side note it looks like Americans like Europeans will be buying Pentax because it suits their needs not because its cheap.

The only lens I can see anybody going too travel to purchase is the Cannon 70-200 or the Pentax 16-50 as the difference would pay a good chunk of the airfare. So your all welcome to rainy blighty

 awaldram's gear list:awaldram's gear list
Pentax Q Pentax K-3 Pentax smc DA* 55mm F1.4 SDM Pentax smc DA* 16-50mm F2.8 ED AL (IF) SDM Pentax smc DA* 50-135mm F2.8 ED (IF) SDM +11 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
snake_b
Senior MemberPosts: 4,680
Like?
Re: Pentax will price themselves out of the market
In reply to awaldram, Apr 9, 2012

What "patriot pole"?

I live in Germany, with residences in the US and the UK, so I'm constantly dealing with these three currencies, as well as the CHF on a regular basis.

awaldram wrote:

snake_b wrote:

This is another case of perpetuating the myth.

I love how euros get: (US cost in brackets)

1. Jealous of the buying power of another country, especially one that doesn't get choked by taxation

Maybe you should have checked before running up the patriot pole.!
Pentax 16-50 £608 (£946) Cannon 17-55 = £799 (£744)
Pentax 300F4 £914(£883) Cannon 300 f4 IS = £ 1143 (914)

Pentax 60-250 f4 = £1048 (£1261) Cannon 70-200 F4 = £464 (now thats a bargain)(£851)
Pentax 200 f2.8 £749 (£756) Cannon 200 f2.8 = £619 ($517)

If you think our prices (UK) have 20% tax on and yours (US) has 0% then someone is getting rich off your dollar.

As I side note it looks like Americans like Europeans will be buying Pentax because it suits their needs not because its cheap.

The only lens I can see anybody going too travel to purchase is the Cannon 70-200 or the Pentax 16-50 as the difference would pay a good chunk of the airfare. So your all welcome to rainy blighty

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
awaldram
Forum ProPosts: 10,464Gear list
Like?
Re: Pentax will price themselves out of the market
In reply to snake_b, Apr 9, 2012

snake_b wrote:

What "patriot pole"?

Yet you made the statements deliberately derogative to the whole of a continent and even worse just wrong.
What is a "Euros" is it your personal slang for European.?

I love how euros get:

1. Jealous of the buying power of another country, especially one that doesn't get choked by taxation (which also includes those that Norway can't control due to being locked in the EEA)

Nice political innuendo but again single sided, I'm not getting into discussion of 'welfare state' and a counties responsibilities to its citizens.

2. When people from another country don't understand how the economics of another country work, since their only reference it purely looking at exchange rates and their own country.

I think you are guilty here of this.

3. The same Euros buy like crazy from the US.

Again unsubstantiated and in regard to cameras highly improbable.

I think if Europeans were buying like crazy from the US the dollar would be worth more.

 awaldram's gear list:awaldram's gear list
Pentax Q Pentax K-3 Pentax smc DA* 55mm F1.4 SDM Pentax smc DA* 16-50mm F2.8 ED AL (IF) SDM Pentax smc DA* 50-135mm F2.8 ED (IF) SDM +11 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Yomama
Regular MemberPosts: 162
Like?
Re: Pentax will price themselves out of the market
In reply to hqphoto, Apr 9, 2012

I have read many times that the US pricing was somewhat cheaper then the rest of the world and a lot of people ordered from B&H or Adorama.

Anyway, if the US pricing is just getting in line with the rest of the world, that's good for the local dealers everywhere and give them incentive to carry Pentax (higher profit margin) and better sells (sell shift from the online store).

Anyway I saw the increment of some DA* (with SDM) are very high. I think they are developed under the Hoya tenor?? Meaning they have to pay Hoya for each of those lens they sold?? Actually that's good news because all those developed by Hoya will be replaced in the future with new designs and with all the complaints about their SDM failure?? That's good news too.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
snake_b
Senior MemberPosts: 4,680
Like?
Re: Pentax will price themselves out of the market
In reply to awaldram, Apr 9, 2012

It's short.

BTW- you can't try that "racism" ad hominem crap on me, especially since I, myself, am a "Euro".

DUR.

awaldram wrote:

snake_b wrote:

What "patriot pole"?

Yet you made the statements deliberately derogative to the whole of a continent and even worse just wrong.
What is a "Euros" is it your personal slang for European.?

I love how euros get:

1. Jealous of the buying power of another country, especially one that doesn't get choked by taxation (which also includes those that Norway can't control due to being locked in the EEA)

Nice political innuendo but again single sided, I'm not getting into discussion of 'welfare state' and a counties responsibilities to its citizens.

2. When people from another country don't understand how the economics of another country work, since their only reference it purely looking at exchange rates and their own country.

I think you are guilty here of this.

3. The same Euros buy like crazy from the US.

Again unsubstantiated and in regard to cameras highly improbable.

I think if Europeans were buying like crazy from the US the dollar would be worth more.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
snake_b
Senior MemberPosts: 4,680
Like?
Re: Pentax will price themselves out of the market
In reply to Yomama, Apr 9, 2012

The only party that will lose is Pentax due to a baseless price increase.

You don't get service or availability offered by the companies Pentax is pricing with, combined with the fact that the bodies and lenses are now made in cheap-labor countries.

Not to mention, Pentax is pricing lenses in the range where one can simply go fullframe in canon and Nikon. 5DIIs are plentiful, not insanely expensive, either with or without the 24-70 or 24-105 (both L). The investment into the body may be higher, but the real thing that will nail people are the lenses.

Yomama wrote:

I haven't done any research since the price change. I have read many times that the US pricing was some what cheaper then the rest of the world and a lot of people ordered from B&H or Adorama.

Anyway, if the US pricing is just getting in line with the rest of the world, that's good for the local dealers everywhere and give them incentive to carry Pentax (higher profit margin).

Anyway I saw the increment of some DA* are very high. Are they mostly developed under the Hoya tenor?? Meaning they have to pay Hoya for each of those lens they sold?? Actually that's good news because all those developed by Hoya will be replaced in the future with new designs.... let's wait and see.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Col K10d
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,198Gear list
Like?
Re: Pentax will price themselves out of the market
In reply to hqphoto, Apr 9, 2012

Yeah right, coz its only dpr forum members who understand the market at all.
--

 Col K10d's gear list:Col K10d's gear list
Pentax K-3 Pentax smc DA* 300mm F4.0 ED (IF) SDM Pentax smc FA 43mm F1.9 Limited Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 2,8/25 Voigtlander 90mm F3.5 APO-Lanthar SL II +9 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
intro
Regular MemberPosts: 133Gear list
Like?
Re: Pentax will price themselves out of the market
In reply to Maxwell Smart, Apr 9, 2012

Well i think Pentax provided the new innovative technology, so therefore they are right in increasing prices in US. They have Pentax Q and K-01! And a lens road-map!

 intro's gear list:intro's gear list
Pentax K-x Nikon D7000 Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D +2 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
raylob
Regular MemberPosts: 129
Like?
Re: Pentax will price themselves out of the market
In reply to hqphoto, Apr 9, 2012

"What a blow this is to a great little company"... More like a blow to current and prospective Pentax users! Common sense dictates that you cannot hike up prices to such a large degree and hope to get away with it. Sigma tried & failed.

But your comment is correct: sooner or later it will be a blow to Pentax when sales start to decline as users migrate to other systems or sit out these silly prices!
Ray

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads