Beginner to Professional advice needed

Started Apr 7, 2012 | Discussions
MABF1
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Beginner to Professional advice needed
Apr 7, 2012

Many years ago I did an O level in Photography at College (B&W with a Praktica camera with shutter like a canon (as in the weapon not the brand)). I did all my own film processing/exposing/developing etc. Since then I have only taken hobby snaps with film and now my trusty S95. I am really loving playing with the manual controls but would really like to take my photography to the next stage. My only gripe from my pocket S95 (given the type of camera is) is missed shots. From where I am now to where I want to be is a steep and continuous learning curve. However, I would like to ultimately earn some income from my photographs.

At the moment I shoot

Children Stationary/School play etc , sports - in& outdoors - low light without flash
Nightscapes
Travel
Street photography
Landscape

I would to shoot

Studio work - I really like the strobists website http://www.strobist.blogspot.co.uk/

Weddings - I have seen several sites that have the style of wedding photographyy which catches my eye at this stage eg http://www.prophotography.co.za/blog/
As I have said I am not underestimating the learning curve here. However,

given I would like the opportunity of become a professional should I go straight for a Canon 5d Mark 3 / Nikon D800 type Camera - I only use those camera models as an example as a level of camera.

-Will only a DSLR produce professional saleable prints? There is much talk that the DSLR is dead/ people dropping their DSLRs for crop sensor type cameras.

-Is there a credible Crop camera + system alternative for professional camera users?

TIA

Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon PowerShot S95 Nikon D800
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Bjorn_L
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Re: Beginner to Professional advice needed
In reply to MABF1, Apr 7, 2012

You're getting a little ahead of yourself.

First you need to get back in to photography and hone your skills. Based on your questions, you are not very close to the needed skills. Not being mean or trying to discourage you, just being honest. If you don't know what pro's shoot and why you are very far from being able to become a credible pro.

Once your skills are up, if your passion remains then you look at if you are skilled enough to become a professional. Most likely you will need years of serious practice.

But to answer your questions, so that you may set goals even if they are long term ones:

1. People are not dropping their DSLRs for tiny cameras. Look at DSLR sales and you will see there is no dip. Only the gains in other segments is higher.
2. There is no subsititute for a professional DSLR.
3. There is no subsitute for professional lenses

4. Photography is a skill and there is no subsitute to gaining this skill. It takes years of work, high investment in time and money.

Studio work and wedding work generally require a full-frame camera such as a Nikon d800 or Canon 5dmkIII (or similar).

Professional work is best done with Nikon or Canon because those are the only two with a complete professional lens lineup and also the only ones currently with professional grade DSLRs (excluding medium format and the hyper expensive options like Leica and such).

BUT, given how far away your knowledge is, I do not suggest you buy Pro gear. You will need to upgrade it again before you are skilled enough and you are more likely to make bad buying decisions going in to it than later on when you know what you want/need.

I suggest a "near" pro body is a better place to start. Such as a Nikon d7000 or Canon 7d.

Develop a lens plan. I'll suggest only Nikon, get the Canon equivalent if you prefer Canon there is not significant difference or advantage to the lines when viewed in total. However for weddings, the Nikon 14-24 at the moment is unmatched as a wide angle for taking in larger groups. It can be used on a Canon with an adapter (I have a friend who does that), but I don't like adapters. Especially when you consider the d800 with its crazy megapixels and per pixel quality of data might be the perfect studio body (until Canon counters, as they always do).

You can not get even close to the quality of the top level stuff from the top two. The best stuff costs an arm and a leg and even so there is almost always a waiting list for it.

The advantages of a DSLR includes better subject isolation, better low light performance, better per pixel performance, and of course the better glass.

So a Nikon d7000

Get either the 18-105 or 16-85 kit (I prefer the 16-85), unless you plan to be out in the rain, then get the Nikon 17-55 f2.8 as it is the ONLY sealed DX normal zoom on either Nikon or Canon mount.

Get the Nikon 35mm f1.8g and 85mm f1.8g. If you have more budget, replace the Nikon 85mm f1.8g with the Sigma 85mm f1.4 and add a Sigma 50mm f1.4

Get a decent ball-head tripod. (oben from B&H with at least a 17lb load capacity is a good start)
Get at least a sb710 flash.

If you also want to shoot sports, or want a more flexible protrait lens, get the Nikon 70-200vr

then stop. Take a class.
Learn just 1 lens at a time.
be patient with yourself, you can not short cut the process.

Do not over invest going in. The stuff I mentioned above is mostly high-end hobbiest grade. Get it used if you can. Do not waste your time and money getting lenses like the 24mm f1.4g, 85mm f1.4g, 24-70 f2.8, etc until you are good enough to make proper use of them. Would you buy a F! race car when you are just learning how to drive?

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See my plan (in my profile) for what I shoot with. See my gallery for images I find amusing.

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trekkeruss
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Re: Beginner to Professional advice needed
In reply to MABF1, Apr 7, 2012

MABF1 wrote:

I would like to ultimately earn some income from my photographs.

Ultimately, that has very little to do with equipment. Art is a subjective thing, so marketing and salesmanship is what will earn you income.

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Deleted1929
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Re: Beginner to Professional advice needed
In reply to MABF1, Apr 7, 2012

There is much talk that the DSLR is dead/ people dropping their DSLRs for crop sensor type cameras

Most DSLRs have crop frame sensors.

This is just my personal view, but I regard full frame as a legacy and specialist tool these days. It is traditional for camera makers to put the most sophisticated and high performance equipment in full frame systems, but I'd like to see them produce a crop frame body of similar specification. The full frame sensor size is, to me, just a hang-over from film days. The body and support system specification is what's actually needed in crop frame to match the needs of pros.

As I said - my personal view.

Is there a credible Crop camera + system alternative for professional camera users?

To be frank both these questions suggest you have not done even basic research into camera bodies and what distinguishes them. This is a clear indication to me that you need to forget your ultimate goal at this time.

Back to Basics is what you need.

Get a reasonably good DSLR like a D7000 with a kit lens and start from there. If you can't learn the required skills with that then you won't ever.

When you are comfortable with that and understand core theory like exposure, metering and focus control then you can start to reconsider a professional career.

Forget full frame bodies until you reach that point. There's no reason to assume you will need full frame ever and it's a distraction to learning technique.

Finally note that professional photography is, above all, a business . You will need business skills as much as photography skills.

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StephenG

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MABF1
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Would you recommend the Nikon D7000 over the D300s?
In reply to MABF1, Apr 7, 2012

Thank you, for taking the time to reply. You have given me a lot to think about and a lot of useful information. I appreciate you being candid - You are right I am a long way from where I know I need to be at the moment. My concern was that if I did not start with a higher specification camera I would outgrow it too soon. Just as a matter of interest could you explain why you prefer the Nikon D7000 over the Nikon D300s?
TIA

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MABF1
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Re: Would you recommend the Nikon D7000 over the D300s?
In reply to MABF1, Apr 7, 2012

That was to Bjorn_L

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Bjorn_L
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Re: Would you recommend the Nikon D7000 over the D300s?
In reply to MABF1, Apr 7, 2012

MABF1 wrote:

Thank you, for taking the time to reply. You have given me a lot to think about and a lot of useful information. I appreciate you being candid - You are right I am a long way from where I know I need to be at the moment. My concern was that if I did not start with a higher specification camera I would outgrow it too soon. Just as a matter of interest could you explain why you prefer the Nikon D7000 over the Nikon D300s?
TIA

That depends....
The thing is both are really good cameras but in slightly different ways.

The d300s is a pro body, really advanced AF system, tough, high quality sealing. With a very good but older sensor. Meaning it won't match the d7000 in ISO noise or dynamic range. But it is more likely to nail the tough shot, especially when the subject is moving.

The d7000 has a more advanced sensor. It has best in class ISO noise, dynamic range and color depth. Only the Pentac k5 can match it (because they share a sensor, but not the rest of the sensor package such as AF module, etc). it has a better movie mode. It is a little bit lighter, but not enough to matter to most. It has good but not as good build quality. It has good but not as good AF. The difference between 12 and 16mp is less then it sounds. Assuming your lens is good enough, the difference in resolution is only 15%.

Back when I shot DX (like the d300s and d7000) I shot a d90. Which is like a d7000 "lite". The sensor is the same as the d300/d300s but the focus system is not as good as the d7000. Even so, I seldom if ever lost a shot due to mis-focus. If I blew the shot is mostly my own fault.

For casual use, for studio work and shooting slower moving stuff the d7000 is better.

For those who are used to (or want) a more pro body, more advanced AF (such as sports shooters) then the d300s is better.

So after all that, your answer is:

For most people I would recommend the d7000 over the d300s but just barely. You can't go wrong with either one. They just do different things better.
--

See my plan (in my profile) for what I shoot with. See my gallery for images I find amusing.

 Bjorn_L's gear list:Bjorn_L's gear list
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MABF1
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Re: Beginner to Professional advice needed
In reply to Deleted1929, Apr 7, 2012

Thank you for your reply. You have been very helpful.

It may appear that I have not been doing research but honestly I have spent quite sometime looking at the pros and cons of both 'FF' and 'Crop type' cameras. I have read many opinions and reviews about the various pros and cons of both. I am at the 'paralysis by analysis' stage. The debates on the systems have been both informative but incredibly frustrating when they descend into presonally charged feuds. I have also spent many hours pouring through pro websites and online gallerys looking to see what different people shoot with to see what they have achieved with various models of cameras. I may have been looking in the wrong places but I have been less successful finding as many websites and galleries for 'Pros' who shoot with Sony and Fuji and Pentax cameras than Canon or Nikon.

A decent camera + lens requires a costly investment and requires careful consideration. One of the reasons for original post is to try and find out where best to start (ie position of start camera and lens bearing in mind where I want to be) and what is relevent or not relevent ie format ff vs crop limited- focusing issues, limited range of lens etc

Also why do you prefer Nikon D7000 over D300s?

sjgcit wrote:

There is much talk that the DSLR is dead/ people dropping their DSLRs for crop sensor type cameras

Most DSLRs have crop frame sensors.

This is just my personal view, but I regard full frame as a legacy and specialist tool these days. It is traditional for camera makers to put the most sophisticated and high performance equipment in full frame systems, but I'd like to see them produce a crop frame body of similar specification. The full frame sensor size is, to me, just a hang-over from film days. The body and support system specification is what's actually needed in crop frame to match the needs of pros.

As I said - my personal view.

Is there a credible Crop camera + system alternative for professional camera users?

To be frank both these questions suggest you have not done even basic research into camera bodies and what distinguishes them. This is a clear indication to me that you need to forget your ultimate goal at this time.

Back to Basics is what you need.

Get a reasonably good DSLR like a D7000 with a kit lens and start from there. If you can't learn the required skills with that then you won't ever.

When you are comfortable with that and understand core theory like exposure, metering and focus control then you can start to reconsider a professional career.

Forget full frame bodies until you reach that point. There's no reason to assume you will need full frame ever and it's a distraction to learning technique.

Finally note that professional photography is, above all, a business . You will need business skills as much as photography skills.

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StephenG

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MABF1
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Re: Beginner to Professional advice needed
In reply to trekkeruss, Apr 7, 2012

trekkeruss wrote:

MABF1 wrote:

I would like to ultimately earn some income from my photographs.

Ultimately, that has very little to do with equipment. Art is a subjective thing, so marketing and salesmanship is what will earn you income.

Thank you for replying, I am hoping with all the good advice on getting started will get me to a point where I can have the problem how I market my photos

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MABF1
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Re: Would you recommend the Nikon D7000 over the D300s?
In reply to Bjorn_L, Apr 7, 2012

Thank you that is very helpful. It has given me a lot to think about and I especially appreciate your advice on the lens.

Bjorn_L wrote:

MABF1 wrote:

Thank you, for taking the time to reply. You have given me a lot to think about and a lot of useful information. I appreciate you being candid - You are right I am a long way from where I know I need to be at the moment. My concern was that if I did not start with a higher specification camera I would outgrow it too soon. Just as a matter of interest could you explain why you prefer the Nikon D7000 over the Nikon D300s?
TIA

That depends....
The thing is both are really good cameras but in slightly different ways.

The d300s is a pro body, really advanced AF system, tough, high quality sealing. With a very good but older sensor. Meaning it won't match the d7000 in ISO noise or dynamic range. But it is more likely to nail the tough shot, especially when the subject is moving.

The d7000 has a more advanced sensor. It has best in class ISO noise, dynamic range and color depth. Only the Pentac k5 can match it (because they share a sensor, but not the rest of the sensor package such as AF module, etc). it has a better movie mode. It is a little bit lighter, but not enough to matter to most. It has good but not as good build quality. It has good but not as good AF. The difference between 12 and 16mp is less then it sounds. Assuming your lens is good enough, the difference in resolution is only 15%.

Back when I shot DX (like the d300s and d7000) I shot a d90. Which is like a d7000 "lite". The sensor is the same as the d300/d300s but the focus system is not as good as the d7000. Even so, I seldom if ever lost a shot due to mis-focus. If I blew the shot is mostly my own fault.

For casual use, for studio work and shooting slower moving stuff the d7000 is better.

For those who are used to (or want) a more pro body, more advanced AF (such as sports shooters) then the d300s is better.

So after all that, your answer is:

For most people I would recommend the d7000 over the d300s but just barely. You can't go wrong with either one. They just do different things better.
--

See my plan (in my profile) for what I shoot with. See my gallery for images I find amusing.

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Deleted1929
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Re: Beginner to Professional advice needed
In reply to MABF1, Apr 7, 2012

Also why do you prefer Nikon D7000 over D300s?

That's not what I said. I suggested the D7000 as a good starting point.

I don't think the D300s is a good choice for you. I think the D7000 is almost as capable as in some ways better. I don't see any advantage to the D300s to someone at your skill level and I'd suggest you consider the D7000 as a top-notch camera to develop skills on. When you've learned enough to move on then the market will also have produced new models and I'd suggest that's to time to consider higher level models. Bare in mind that feature creep is from higher models to the next generation's lower models. In three years ( about how long I'd expect your initial learning to take ) you'll be in a better position to make your own judgements and have a better selection of models to choose from.

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StephenG

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MABF1
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Re: Beginner to Professional advice needed
In reply to Deleted1929, Apr 7, 2012

Sorry, my fault for not wording that very well. I meant to ask ' why you suggested D7000 rather than D300s', rather than state it was your recommendation. Thank your for clarifying your D7000 suggestion - both you and Bjorn_L have been really informative in respect of the D7000. Thank you once again for your advice.

sjgcit wrote:

Also why do you prefer Nikon D7000 over D300s?

That's not what I said. I suggested the D7000 as a good starting point.

I don't think the D300s is a good choice for you. I think the D7000 is almost as capable as in some ways better. I don't see any advantage to the D300s to someone at your skill level and I'd suggest you consider the D7000 as a top-notch camera to develop skills on. When you've learned enough to move on then the market will also have produced new models and I'd suggest that's to time to consider higher level models. Bare in mind that feature creep is from higher models to the next generation's lower models. In three years ( about how long I'd expect your initial learning to take ) you'll be in a better position to make your own judgements and have a better selection of models to choose from.

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StephenG

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mlackey
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Re: Beginner to Professional advice needed
In reply to MABF1, Apr 7, 2012

Two points not yet mentioned.

A 50mm lens on a FF body behaves like a 50mm lens. The same 50mm lens on a crop body behaves like a 75mm lens on a FF body. All FF and crop body cameras will have this behavior. If you need really, really wide shots (say landscapes) then you really need FF. If you need super telephoto shots (say wildlife and sports) then you really need a crop body. For everything in between it's your personal choice.

Begin standard mantra...

Look not only at the lenses you need today but at the lenses you will need tomorrow. Nikon has more choices at the wide end of the range, say 50mm and less, while Canon offers more choices at the long end of the range (say, 100mm and more). Think long term.

End standard mantra...

Mike

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Guidenet
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Maybe a D700 would be a good choice.
In reply to MABF1, Apr 7, 2012

I don't think there's anything at all wrong with going full frame off the bat. I don't think it's just a holdover from the film days but a viable format which can produce a higher quality image, all else being equal. In fact, I think for long term future, Full Frame or FX will be the choice for enthusiasts and professionals while DX or APS-C will be entry level primarily. Many people with an investment in DX do not like hearing this and I could be wrong. It's purely my opinion based on what I see Nikon and others doing.

I personally love the D300 but I think this transitional camera with a crop sensor in a pro-grade body is over. Nikon hasn't created a new pro-grade DX lens in a long long time and I'm not sure they will again. The D300S replacement out this year will possibly be a more entry level FX (full frame) body. If this is so, the fate of DX is pretty much sealed. They will range from the entry level D3100 type cameras to the almost enthusiast D7000 level cameras. Above that will all be FX like it almost is now. The lower tier camera bodies will typically have scene modes and art filters where the owners typically shoot in Green A, P, A or S modes and store as Jpegs or often than RAW files. The upper tier FX cameras will have no scene modes or art filters as well as no Green Auto setting. They will be used mostly in 14 bit RAW storage.

They might bring out a D400 as a 24 mp crop, but I really don't see the reasoning to use a crop sensor in a pro-grade body anymore. We will just have to see what this D300S replacement looks like. It will tell us where the pivotal camera is between Entry and Pro-Grade. Right now, I'd draw the line between the D7000 and D300S. I'd like to see it come with a 24 mp FX sensor from the D3X or a 12 mp sensor from the D3S and under $2000.

If you can afford it, I'd get the D700 right now. It's brand new around $2100 after Nikon just lowered the price when the D800 came out.That's a huge bargain and will get you on the right path if you're willing to invest in the learning curve needed. It will also keep you in the FX game where I think you'll want to be if you eventually go pro. The D700 can help you take amazing images if you do your part.
--
Cheers, Craig

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Hugowolf
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Re: Beginner to Professional advice needed
In reply to MABF1, Apr 7, 2012

I would start with an entry level dSLR from either Canon or Nikon, and since entry level means crop, it would give you a good idea of whether you want to consider going full frame or not. If you sell the initial camera within the first year, the by/sell price difference will be much less than renting a camera for even a couple of weeks.

Personally, the only reason I would use a crop, would be for the additional telephoto reach, in all other photographic ways, FF is better. A 400 mm lens of full frame is heavier, bigger, and more expensive than a 300 mm on a crop, And the 300 mm on a crop frame camera gives you the equivalent of 450 mm on full frame.

If you are set on a more ‘professional’ level crop, then consider the Canon 7D along with the Nikon D300s.

To start out with a Nikon D800 or Canon 5D III, is sinking an awful lot of money into something you may find doesn’t entirely agree with you – unfortunately, the business, accounting, bill collecting, and promotional side of photography takes more time than shooting great images.

And as far as ‘beginner to professional’ is concerned, I think you would be better considering beginner to intermediate, intermediate to advanced, then advanced amateur to professional, before sink thousands of pounds into camera equipment.

(And then there is the thousands of pounds for lighting equipment.)

Brian A

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MrMojo
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Re: Beginner to Professional advice needed
In reply to MABF1, Apr 7, 2012

Many pros use a "cropped" sensor DSLR. There are a variety of reasons why pros choose a DX Nikon instead of an FX. Some photographers use both DX and FX. When push comes to shove, it isn't the gear that makes the photographer, it's what the photographer makes with the gear.

Regarding the D7000, consider doing a search in the appropriate DP Review forum. You will find that more than a few D7000 owners have switched to another DSLR because of auto focus and exposure problems. DSLRs such as the D300/D300s have features that come in handy when shooting in fast-changing situations. If cost is a factor you can purchase a used DSLR or a new camera that was recently replaced by a new model.

If your work isn't as good as your competition it's going to be rather difficult to make a living as a pro. When I was considering becoming a pro after years of amateur photography I decided that I would be ready when I was able to consistently equal the image quality of the professional images that I saw produced by pros doing the kind of photography that I wanted to do. Then I set out to acquire the skills and experience necessary to make it happen.

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MABF1
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Re: Beginner to Professional advice needed
In reply to mlackey, Apr 7, 2012

Thank you for your helpful post. I definitely need to do a bit more homework on lenses.

Two points not yet mentioned.

A 50mm lens on a FF body behaves like a 50mm lens. The same 50mm lens on a crop body behaves like a 75mm lens on a FF body. All FF and crop body cameras will have this behavior. If you need really, really wide shots (say landscapes) then you really need FF. If you need super telephoto shots (say wildlife and sports) then you really need a crop body. For everything in between it's your personal choice.

Begin standard mantra...

Look not only at the lenses you need today but at the lenses you will need tomorrow. Nikon has more choices at the wide end of the range, say 50mm and less, while Canon offers more choices at the long end of the range (say, 100mm and more). Think long term.

End standard mantra...

Mike

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MABF1
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Re: Beginner to Professional advice needed
In reply to mlackey, Apr 7, 2012

Thank you for your helpful post. I definitely need to do some more work on lenses.

mlackey wrote:

Two points not yet mentioned.

A 50mm lens on a FF body behaves like a 50mm lens. The same 50mm lens on a crop body behaves like a 75mm lens on a FF body. All FF and crop body cameras will have this behavior. If you need really, really wide shots (say landscapes) then you really need FF. If you need super telephoto shots (say wildlife and sports) then you really need a crop body. For everything in between it's your personal choice.

Begin standard mantra...

Look not only at the lenses you need today but at the lenses you will need tomorrow. Nikon has more choices at the wide end of the range, say 50mm and less, while Canon offers more choices at the long end of the range (say, 100mm and more). Think long term.

End standard mantra...

Mike

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MABF1
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Re: Maybe a D700 would be a good choice.
In reply to Guidenet, Apr 7, 2012

Thank you, another useful post. I think I have been so bogged down in the detail. I need to keep in mind that camera will improve whilst I am learning my art.

Guidenet wrote:

I don't think there's anything at all wrong with going full frame off the bat. I don't think it's just a holdover from the film days but a viable format which can produce a higher quality image, all else being equal. In fact, I think for long term future, Full Frame or FX will be the choice for enthusiasts and professionals while DX or APS-C will be entry level primarily. Many people with an investment in DX do not like hearing this and I could be wrong. It's purely my opinion based on what I see Nikon and others doing.

I personally love the D300 but I think this transitional camera with a crop sensor in a pro-grade body is over. Nikon hasn't created a new pro-grade DX lens in a long long time and I'm not sure they will again. The D300S replacement out this year will possibly be a more entry level FX (full frame) body. If this is so, the fate of DX is pretty much sealed. They will range from the entry level D3100 type cameras to the almost enthusiast D7000 level cameras. Above that will all be FX like it almost is now. The lower tier camera bodies will typically have scene modes and art filters where the owners typically shoot in Green A, P, A or S modes and store as Jpegs or often than RAW files. The upper tier FX cameras will have no scene modes or art filters as well as no Green Auto setting. They will be used mostly in 14 bit RAW storage.

They might bring out a D400 as a 24 mp crop, but I really don't see the reasoning to use a crop sensor in a pro-grade body anymore. We will just have to see what this D300S replacement looks like. It will tell us where the pivotal camera is between Entry and Pro-Grade. Right now, I'd draw the line between the D7000 and D300S. I'd like to see it come with a 24 mp FX sensor from the D3X or a 12 mp sensor from the D3S and under $2000.

If you can afford it, I'd get the D700 right now. It's brand new around $2100 after Nikon just lowered the price when the D800 came out.That's a huge bargain and will get you on the right path if you're willing to invest in the learning curve needed. It will also keep you in the FX game where I think you'll want to be if you eventually go pro. The D700 can help you take amazing images if you do your part.
--
Cheers, Craig

Follow me on Twitter @craighardingsr : Equipment in Profile

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MABF1
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Re: Beginner to Professional advice needed
In reply to Hugowolf, Apr 7, 2012

Thank you for your post. It seems that the new canon and Nikon offerings would be a bit of a waste of money at the moment. I assumed that my first serious (dont get me wrong I absolutely love my S95 as a pocket camera and will keep it until it dies) camera would ultimately be a keeper but as you mention there is the opportunity to offset the cost against a new camera further down the line.

Hugowolf wrote:

I would start with an entry level dSLR from either Canon or Nikon, and since entry level means crop, it would give you a good idea of whether you want to consider going full frame or not. If you sell the initial camera within the first year, the by/sell price difference will be much less than renting a camera for even a couple of weeks.

Personally, the only reason I would use a crop, would be for the additional telephoto reach, in all other photographic ways, FF is better. A 400 mm lens of full frame is heavier, bigger, and more expensive than a 300 mm on a crop, And the 300 mm on a crop frame camera gives you the equivalent of 450 mm on full frame.

If you are set on a more ‘professional’ level crop, then consider the Canon 7D along with the Nikon D300s.

To start out with a Nikon D800 or Canon 5D III, is sinking an awful lot of money into something you may find doesn’t entirely agree with you – unfortunately, the business, accounting, bill collecting, and promotional side of photography takes more time than shooting great images.

And as far as ‘beginner to professional’ is concerned, I think you would be better considering beginner to intermediate, intermediate to advanced, then advanced amateur to professional, before sink thousands of pounds into camera equipment.

(And then there is the thousands of pounds for lighting equipment.)

Brian A

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