A few recent shots from my GRDiv

Started Apr 6, 2012 | Discussions
mootaineer
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A few recent shots from my GRDiv
Apr 6, 2012

After using the GRDii since it came out,i the GRDiv is a definite improvement in most aspects and a joy to use.

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Joe

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rube39
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Re: A few recent shots from my GRDiv
In reply to mootaineer, Apr 6, 2012

very nice composition on these.
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rondom
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Re: A few recent shots from my GRDiv
In reply to mootaineer, Apr 6, 2012

Thank you for sharing these...can you tell us why you consider it a "definite improvement"?

We are yet to see a side by side raw comparison between grd 3 and 4. Has anyone shared it, anywhere?

Therefore I am most interested in your conclusions. And one question: do the high iso shots have the banding problem?
Thanks

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BG_CX3_DPREVIEW
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Re: A few recent shots from my GRDiv
In reply to rondom, Apr 6, 2012

I like the pebbels, and the bulb.

Great pics, the bokeh is great.

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mootaineer
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Re: A few recent shots from my GRDiv
In reply to rondom, Apr 6, 2012

rondom wrote:

Thank you for sharing these...can you tell us why you consider it a "definite improvement"?

It's hard to quantify but from owning a GRDiii since Dec 2009 I am happier with:

  • RAW files: Again I can't quantify this unless/until I try side-by-side shots with the GRDiii (which is now in the possession of my father) but I do a lot of PP using the RAW files and I find that they either need less work or are simply better to work with. If I can get my hands on the GRDiii again I will try to do some comparison shots.

  • Wide open: I don't know if it was an issue with my GRDiii but I didn't enjoy using f/1.9 because I often found the images a bit soft. Wide open seems to be much improved on my GRDiv.

Other than that, the controls mainly remain the same and I also like the option of saving RAW only.

We are yet to see a side by side raw comparison between grd 3 and 4. Has anyone shared it, anywhere?

Therefore I am most interested in your conclusions. And one question: do the high iso shots have the banding problem?

I have uploaded a straight RAW-> JPG (also 16bit-> 8bit and AdobeRGB-> sRGB)conversion of the high ISO file. I don't think there is any banding, other than "halos" around the lights. My PP may have introduced a little banding but I still prefer the end result.

Overall despite the changes not being vast, I'm much happier with the GRDiv than I was with the iii. Perhaps familiarity has something to do with this too.

Thanks

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Joe

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rondom
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Re: A few recent shots from my GRDiv
In reply to mootaineer, Apr 6, 2012

Thank you for your impressions, and the additional image. Sometimes impressions can be more worthy than clinical analysis.

Regarding high iso: a while ago someone posted a picture here claiming that his grd4 would pick slower shutter speed when compared with grd3, implying that ricoh boosted the iso rating without changing sensitivity of the sensor. I was quite astonished about that, and no one rebutted his claim. It would be interesting to know if you agree...

This is definitely better iso 800 when compared with grd3...provided that it is not grd3's 400!

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mootaineer
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Re: A few recent shots from my GRDiv
In reply to rondom, Apr 6, 2012

I think I read that one too.

I'm not a camera tester but I suppose that I could shoot a GRDiii and GRDiv side by side of the same scene under the same lighting. The previous poster would be right if the exposure is different.

My experience with the GRDiii was that ISO800 was not that useable with colour. Although I still try to stay at the lowest ISO possible, whenever I can.

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rondom
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GRD 4 ISO issue
In reply to rondom, Apr 12, 2012

this is from few years ago, from Mitch Alland (who unfortunately no longer contributes in this forum) responding to Wouter Brandsma (another great photographer with an excellent blog) about GRD 3 ISO performance...

Mitch Alland on November 21, 2009 at 00:02 said:

(...) In his review of the GRD3 Sean found that the ISO was about 60% more than indicated, which mens that the ISO shown as 1600 is actually about 2500.

I think this may explain Ricoh's ISO rating change in GRD4. They simply corrected it to reflect the real values. If that's the case no one can blame Ricoh for faking the ISO. Actually I did conclude the same thing just by comparing the Ricoh s10raw files against the Canon s90 at dpreview test pages. I mentioned it in an earlier post as well:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1013&message=40149033

rondom wrote:

Thank you for your impressions, and the additional image. Sometimes impressions can be more worthy than clinical analysis.

Regarding high iso: a while ago someone posted a picture here claiming that his grd4 would pick slower shutter speed when compared with grd3, implying that ricoh boosted the iso rating without changing sensitivity of the sensor. I was quite astonished about that, and no one rebutted his claim. It would be interesting to know if you agree...

This is definitely better iso 800 when compared with grd3...provided that it is not grd3's 400!

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v_roma
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Re: GRD 4 ISO issue
In reply to rondom, Apr 13, 2012

As someone who owned the GRD3 and upgraded to the GRD4, I personally don't think there are any real improvements in ISO performance. That said, you do get an IQ improvement from the thinner AA filter and a clear performance improvement from the faster AF. Also, I use the dynamic range compensation feature (the one that works on RAW files) for 99% of my pictures and it definitely improves the dynamic range of the camera, which is always a limitation of these small sensor cameras.

PS: Great photos, OP!

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Bejersey
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mootaineer
In reply to mootaineer, Apr 13, 2012

Most excellent shots. At what ISO do you encounter noise?
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mootaineer
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Re: mootaineer
In reply to Bejersey, Apr 14, 2012

Thanks!

It's a hard question to answer. I suppose the technical answer would be "at every ISO" and I almost always check to see if I need to reduce noise in most of my shots.

In reality any shot with a lot of blacks/shadows and night scenes (where I'm typically using higher ISOs anyway) are more prone to noise. By ISO 400 for sure. The noise seems to be "better" than with the GRDiii, although again I haven't been able to compare whether this is due to a different ISO basing by Ricoh between the two models.

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mootaineer
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Re: GRD 4 ISO issue
In reply to v_roma, Apr 14, 2012

v_roma wrote:

As someone who owned the GRD3 and upgraded to the GRD4, I personally don't think there are any real improvements in ISO performance. That said, you do get an IQ improvement from the thinner AA filter and a clear performance improvement from the faster AF. Also, I use the dynamic range compensation feature (the one that works on RAW files) for 99% of my pictures and it definitely improves the dynamic range of the camera, which is always a limitation of these small sensor cameras.

You might be right and perhaps it's all in the head.
I'll do my checks soon and see what I find too.

PS: Great photos, OP!

Thanks

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Joel Stern
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Re: A few recent shots from my GRDiv
In reply to mootaineer, Apr 14, 2012

I really like 2 and 4 with a nod to 2 as well. 1 hurts my eyes (not being a bokeh guy).

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kigaliwire
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Re: A few recent shots from my GRDiv
In reply to mootaineer, Apr 15, 2012

Great shots on the GRD4. Although, I'm still not convinced there's enough of a leap from the GRD3 to bother upgrading. How is the RAW write time? Also, how did you get so close to the squirrel...???

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mootaineer
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Re: A few recent shots from my GRDiv
In reply to Joel Stern, Apr 15, 2012

Joel Stern wrote:

I really like 2 and 4 with a nod to 2 as well. 1 hurts my eyes (not being a bokeh guy).

Thanks Joel.

The bokeh on 1 is a bit harsh, I agree. It's not always that way and in fact even on the small sensor GRD it can be quite smooth. Still...it leaves it to the viewer to perhaps reconstruct the West Pier in his imagination and I think it works better this way.

Even on my top Nikon lenses bokeh can be harsh/brittle so it's no criticism of the GRD.

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mootaineer
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Re: A few recent shots from my GRDiv
In reply to kigaliwire, Apr 15, 2012

Hi Kigaliwire,

Thanks for your comments too. I am a big fan of your photography, btw.

Actually RAW write times is something I want to compare head-to-head against my (now father's) GRDiii. My instinct tells me it might actually be a bit slower. Not enough to make it a problem but slower nonetheless.

Focus is a definite improvement, although I did/do still use snap a lot so it depends on how you do this, of course.

Do you think it might be worth sending your portfolio to Ricoh. I think they might be interested in documentary-photography like yours with the GRD being used as a real street tool. Perhaps they might send you a sample GRDiv? Good publicity via photos is always appreciated by manufacturers, I'm sure. Perhaps there is nothing to lose by trying.

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kigaliwire
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Re: A few recent shots from my GRDiv
In reply to mootaineer, Apr 17, 2012

Thanks - I look forward to seeing what you find on the RAW write times. I figure it's just not worth the expense to upgrade just now. However, I certainly will if the next iteration of the GRD is something more noticeable (and better)

Thanks also for your kind words. I must say I hadn't really thought of approaching Ricoh until your message... I'm sure they have plenty people banging on their doors. However, there are a whole bunch of projects i would like to do here in Africa that I can't really justify for work, so maybe it's a good idea.

While I am very keen on photography, I don't really feel like I know what I'm doing and also what sort of direction I might want to take it. I'll be in London in a few weeks and so I decided to sign up for one of these workshops - http://www.frontlineclub.com/events/2012/05/photo-week-2010---vii-photo-portfolio-reviews.html - to see if someone who knows what he's talking about can suggest what I might be able to do (if anything)

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mootaineer
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Re: A few recent shots from my GRDiv
In reply to kigaliwire, Apr 17, 2012

Hi Kigaliwire,

You don't feel like you know what you're doing?
I think you're doing pretty well, considering

Ultimately photography is an art and not a science, despite the technical aspects - so if your photos appeal to your clients/readership then that's what counts, I think.

I'll send you a mail offline when I get back home.

If you have the time it would be cool to meet up. I sometimes meetup with one of the Ricoh meetup founders so maybe we can go on a photo walkabout!

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kigaliwire
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Re: A few recent shots from my GRDiv
In reply to mootaineer, Apr 17, 2012

OK. Thanks. Not sure I'll have much time for a walkabout in the UK - work normally has me travelling all over the place. I've partitioned that one afternoon to do the VII photo portfolio review thing, altho I need to actually create a portfolio for them to review Cheers.
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BG_CX3_DPREVIEW
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Re: A few recent shots from my GRDiv
In reply to kigaliwire, Apr 17, 2012

Kigaliwire,

there are a few photographers whose pics interest me, you are one of them, Ashwin Rao with a Leica M9, Amy from Dangerrabit, Wouter Brandsma, you fit in there.

You are a talent, i do not know how we can reach Ricoh, but they should sent you a GRD4 with all the accessories immediatly, one series of your pics on their website will sell more grd4s than any enthousiastic function description.

Just my idea...

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