Canon S100 can go wider than 24mm !

Started Apr 5, 2012 | Discussions
Max Privette
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Canon S100 can go wider than 24mm !
Apr 5, 2012

Just open the RAW files with Photomatix !!!
1. Canon S100 RAW file @ DPP
2. Canon S100 RAW file @ PHOTOMATIX

FWTOQA
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Re: Canon S100 can go wider than 24mm !
In reply to Max Privette, Apr 5, 2012

The S100, in common with many wide angle compacts uses in-camera software correction to remove distortion at short focal lengths. This allows less bulky optics. It means that distortion is low in JPEGs or RAW convertors that support the same in-camera algorithms. But the original collected data (RAW) is uncorrected and still contains the usually discarded peripheral info.

To make a distortion "free" JPEG you need a little slack around the image in order to correct thedistortion then to produce a crop from the middle that is free of distortion. That why the camera captures 4160x3124 and then corrects the distortion and crops away those extra collected pixels to give you your finished 4000x3000 JPEG

If you use a convertor which doesn't have the Canon correction algorithms (photomatix, picasa etc) you get the full 4160x3124 info but you also get the distortion. The distortion, and its correction, are most noticeable at the wide end.

If you want to use photomatix to make a HDR or tone map and not have the distortion, first convert outside photomatix o TIFF then import the corrected TIFFs

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jst13
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Re: Canon S100 can go wider than 24mm !
In reply to FWTOQA, Apr 5, 2012

yes but as an example DXO can count out this distortations without loosing the 21mm wide angel view from the RAW files from the S100, thats great!
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FWTOQA
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Re: Canon S100 can go wider than 24mm !
In reply to jst13, Apr 5, 2012

I'm happy to be corrected as I don't use DXO but I would have thought any internal movement of pixels that DXO undertakes to correct distortion would have a corresponding movement of pixels at the edge of the image.

Therefore you would have to be some cropping to get back to a rectangular image again. Is that not the case? Does DXO lose nothing at the edges when it corrects?

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linuxshell
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Re: Canon S100 can go wider than 24mm !
In reply to Max Privette, Apr 5, 2012

When a camera is advertised as 24mm wide, is it before any distortion corrected, or after?

Just wondering since if it is before, then we don't really get 24mm wide.

Max Privette wrote:

Just open the RAW files with Photomatix !!!
1. Canon S100 RAW file @ DPP
2. Canon S100 RAW file @ PHOTOMATIX

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FWTOQA
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Re: Canon S100 can go wider than 24mm !
In reply to linuxshell, Apr 5, 2012

I would imagine that as a lens is a lens and the S100 has a 5.2mm focal length at the wide end (equivalent to 24mm on a 35mm film camera) that it's before the correction.

So the RAW as viewed in a "non Canon" software is the effective full output of the lens, bearing in mind the true output isn't even rectangular - lenses are circular! And a JPG or a Canon processed raw is effectively slightly short change.

It's still a 24mm equivalent lens taking the picture.

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VisionLight
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Re: Canon S100 can go wider than 24mm !
In reply to linuxshell, Apr 5, 2012

linuxshell wrote:

When a camera is advertised as 24mm wide, is it before any distortion corrected, or after?

Just wondering since if it is before, then we don't really get 24mm wide.

When any manufacturer's lens is advertised at a certain focal length, the number is rarely exactly correct but within a tolerance level acceptable within industry standards. Therefore a 24mm lens could be anywhere from around 22.5mm to 25.5mm and still be called a 24mm lens. Most times as well, as shown in the above example, the final displayed focal lenght has just as much to do with the processor as the optical formula. Either way, it will be close to the advertised number.

For further reading, research the patents of lens as they will contain the actual focal length and f-stop of a lens (yes, f1.4 may not be actually f1.4).

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PaulRivers
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Re: Canon S100 can go wider than 24mm !
In reply to FWTOQA, Apr 5, 2012

FWTOQA wrote:

I would imagine that as a lens is a lens and the S100 has a 5.2mm focal length at the wide end (equivalent to 24mm on a 35mm film camera) that it's before the correction.

So the RAW as viewed in a "non Canon" software is the effective full output of the lens, bearing in mind the true output isn't even rectangular - lenses are circular! And a JPG or a Canon processed raw is effectively slightly short change.

It's still a 24mm equivalent lens taking the picture.

I really do not believe that is the case - that it's 24mm after the correction. Someone would have to compare with a 24mm on a full frame dslr, but we would have definitely heard a ton of complaints about it if it wasn't 24mm after conversion, and every time this topic comes up it ends up being agreed upon that it's 24mm after conversion.

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timmer350
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Re: Canon S100 can go wider than 24mm !
In reply to Max Privette, Apr 5, 2012

which version of Photomatix are you using?

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Max Privette
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Re: Canon S100 can go wider than 24mm !
In reply to PaulRivers, Apr 5, 2012

Well, i think about it also ...

1. Canon S100 RAW file @ DPP
2. Canon S100 RAW file @ PHOTOMATIX
3. 5D @ 24 mm

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Max Privette
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Re: Canon S100 can go wider than 24mm !
In reply to timmer350, Apr 5, 2012

Photomatix PRO 4.2 ( Beta 3 )

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FWTOQA
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Re: Canon S100 can go wider than 24mm !
In reply to PaulRivers, Apr 5, 2012

PaulRivers wrote:

FWTOQA wrote:

I would imagine that as a lens is a lens and the S100 has a 5.2mm focal length at the wide end (equivalent to 24mm on a 35mm film camera) that it's before the correction.

So the RAW as viewed in a "non Canon" software is the effective full output of the lens, bearing in mind the true output isn't even rectangular - lenses are circular! And a JPG or a Canon processed raw is effectively slightly short change.

It's still a 24mm equivalent lens taking the picture.

I really do not believe that is the case - that it's 24mm after the correction. Someone would have to compare with a 24mm on a full frame dslr, but we would have definitely heard a ton of complaints about it if it wasn't 24mm after conversion, and every time this topic comes up it ends up being agreed upon that it's 24mm after conversion.

The lens on the camera is a physical piece of glass with a focal length of 5.2mm, that's equivalent to 24mm on a 35mm film camera. You can't change the physical properties of the lens with software - it's a piece of glass.

The full image captured on the sensor is from the 24mm lens that is then cropped by the software. The original image BEFORE software manipulation is the result of the 24mm lens; the resultant JPG after the software has manipulated and madeit smaller is not the full output of the lens.

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FWTOQA
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Re: Canon S100 can go wider than 24mm !
In reply to timmer350, Apr 5, 2012

timmer350 wrote:

which version of Photomatix are you using?

Thanks
T
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It isn't the photomatix version it's the fact that photomatix doesn't have the Canon "anti" distortion algorithms. Any non Canon or non Canon compatible software will also show the full 4160x3124 pixels, Picasa for example.

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Max Privette
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Re: Canon S100 can go wider than 24mm !
In reply to FWTOQA, Apr 5, 2012

Yes i know that ...
you can see that the Photomatix output is also wider than 5D + 24 mm ...

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FWTOQA
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Re: Canon S100 can go wider than 24mm !
In reply to Max Privette, Apr 5, 2012

Max Privette wrote:

Yes i know that ...
you can see that the Photomatix output is also wider than 5D + 24 mm ...

I wouldn't compare the S100 to a 24mm on a 5D, there are too many variables, not least the positioning of the cameras.

Also as VisionLight makes clear "...When any manufacturer's lens is advertised at a certain focal length, the number is rarely exactly correct but within a tolerance level acceptable within industry standards..."

Glad to have been of help.

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linuxshell
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Re: Canon S100 can go wider than 24mm !
In reply to FWTOQA, Apr 6, 2012

Yes, a 24mm lens is still a 24mm lens.

What i mean is if a 24mm lens need so much correction as compared to a 26mm lens with little correction needed, then the picture we get may be just similar to a 26mm lens.

Thanks for clarification.

FWTOQA wrote:

I would imagine that as a lens is a lens and the S100 has a 5.2mm focal length at the wide end (equivalent to 24mm on a 35mm film camera) that it's before the correction.

So the RAW as viewed in a "non Canon" software is the effective full output of the lens, bearing in mind the true output isn't even rectangular - lenses are circular! And a JPG or a Canon processed raw is effectively slightly short change.

It's still a 24mm equivalent lens taking the picture.

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linuxshell
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Re: Canon S100 can go wider than 24mm !
In reply to Max Privette, Apr 6, 2012

Yes, 5D@24mm is wider than S100 with DPP.
Thanks for the comparison.

Max Privette wrote:

Well, i think about it also ...

1. Canon S100 RAW file @ DPP
2. Canon S100 RAW file @ PHOTOMATIX
3. 5D @ 24 mm

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PaulRivers
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Re: Canon S100 can go wider than 24mm !
In reply to linuxshell, Apr 6, 2012

linuxshell wrote:

Yes, 5D@24mm is wider than S100 with DPP.
Thanks for the comparison.

And the uncorrected s100 shot with photomatrix is wider than the 5d 24mm shot.

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Max Privette
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Re: Canon S100 can go wider than 24mm !
In reply to PaulRivers, Apr 6, 2012

I think that the reason why 5D@24 mm is wider than S100 at widest mode ( 24mm ) is due to the aspect ratio.
Anyway the S100 RAW file with Photomatix is much wider than 5D@24 mm
the conclusion is simple:

Canon S100 can go wider than 24mm ( at least the 24mm Canon determine for the "final" RAW file )

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FWTOQA
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Canon S100 can go wider than 24mm? No it can't :-)
In reply to Max Privette, Apr 6, 2012

I still think you're confusing the sensor with the lens. The lens is a physical thing with physical properties. It's specified as a 24mm lens at its widest setting. I don't know any different, I can only accept Canon's word for that.

If you go back to basics and accept that the lens is a 24mm lens (alright it's a 5.2mm lens but you know what I mean) how can the photomatix wide version be anything other than a picture from a 24mm lens? If you accept the lens is 24mm the lens cannot see wider than 24mm. If it could, it wouldn't be a 24mm lens, it would be a say 23mm or 22mm.

The full information, the information you are seeing with photomatix (or any other non Canon compatible software) is the full output from a Canon specified 24mm lens. The output you get from JPG or DPP or any Canon compatible software is still a 24mm lens output, it's just changed and cropped to be smaller by the software. It can't be anything else IF you accept that the lens is 24mm.

I'm going to finish now, we'll have to agree to disagree. Hope you accept this in the spirit it's given, I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to help out with your original question.

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