Humble Pie, or I never stop learning

Started Mar 30, 2012 | Discussions
Laurence Matson
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Humble Pie, or I never stop learning
Mar 30, 2012

Your choice!

But I just wanted to give credit where it is due.

Cinefeel - whatever your real name is - you deserve credit for really figuring out the basic point of the SD1. Were I a bit smarter. . . .

Essentially, this is my take on what I learned from you about sharpening SD1 images:

1. How I proceed depends a lot on which lens I use. Some are much sharper than others. Generally speaking, older lenses are softer or have harsher sharpness. I have a good sample of the former in my 300-800 and of the latter in the older 50 macro.

2. Sharpen or not in SPP depending on the lens. This takes some experimenting. With the two lenses above, I would likely leave sharpening nearer 0 on the former and much closer to -2 on the latter, as examples. Look carefully at what the lens has produced.

3. If you want to give your images a bit of "lift," apply very little high-pass sharpening: 20% and 15 radius is a good place to start. Watch out for large "shadowy" halos.

4. Finally, apply cinefeel's magic: a high percentage combined with a very small radius. My rule of thumb is that the integers should add up to 6. So, for instance, 300% and 0.3 or 200% and 0.4. As usual, if something is good, a little less is better. And the 6 guideline is not carved in stone, as I am sure Tom Parker readers know.

Personally, I am grateful to this forum - and cinefeel (get a name) - for this kind of stuff. During my one-year fight with the black dog, my mind was not as open as it should be.

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Laurence
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Mostly Lurking
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Re: Humble Pie, or I never stop learning
In reply to Laurence Matson, Mar 30, 2012

I've often had to start post-processing over again from 'scratch'. Every shot is a little bit different.
--
William Wilgus

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NarrBL
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Well said, Laurence
In reply to Laurence Matson, Mar 30, 2012

and I am sure some of us understand well enough about the black dog.

I came to independent conclusion about something like your adds-to-six plan -- I probably use add-to-5; e.g. 0.3 and 150% or so, and it very often does good, with a light hand.

I found it was quite effective with Rick's early SD-1 shots when processing a bunch of those.

There are, to be sure, other mysteries more specific to the SD-1, while I am hopeful of Sigma's work on them, to come as each is worked out.

Best and a smile,
Clive

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SigmaChrome
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Re: Humble Pie, or I never stop learning
In reply to Laurence Matson, Mar 30, 2012

Laurence Matson wrote:

Your choice!

I choose both.

Personally, I am grateful to this forum - and cinefeel (get a name) - for this kind of stuff. During my one-year fight with the black dog, my mind was not as open as it should be.

I know that black dog too.
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BarrytheB
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woof woof
In reply to Laurence Matson, Mar 30, 2012

Glad you're back- I missed your wisdom and wit.
Who won?
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colinbm
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Re: Humble Pie, or I never stop learning
In reply to SigmaChrome, Mar 30, 2012

What do you want to know about the black dog ?
Col

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larryj
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Re: Humble Pie, or I never stop learning
In reply to Laurence Matson, Mar 30, 2012

Thanks for the thoughtful discussion Laurence: It is hard for me to imagine you eating humble pie, but I can believe the part about never stop learning. I know that when I stop talking long enough to listen, I have learned good lessons from you and others on this forum. I guess I will need to look at reprocessing some of my test SD1 shot using the ' Matson/Cinefeel' approachs. Thanks for the analysis.
Ps. Glad you are back, I missed you wit and wisdom the past months.
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larryj

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Gary Dean Mercer Clark
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Re: Humble Pie, or I never stop learning
In reply to larryj, Mar 30, 2012

I think the images are so high resolution that we are really down to splitting hairs with this discussion on how to best sharpen images. There are many approaches to sharpening. Find the method that works best for you!

larryj wrote:

Thanks for the thoughtful discussion Laurence: It is hard for me to imagine you eating humble pie, but I can believe the part about never stop learning. I know that when I stop talking long enough to listen, I have learned good lessons from you and others on this forum. I guess I will need to look at reprocessing some of my test SD1 shot using the ' Matson/Cinefeel' approachs. Thanks for the analysis.
Ps. Glad you are back, I missed you wit and wisdom the past months.
--
Cheers,
larryj

If you can see the light, you can photograph it
Quote from Myron Woods

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Gary Mercer

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HBowman
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Re: Humble Pie, or I never stop learning
In reply to Gary Dean Mercer Clark, Mar 30, 2012

gary mercer wrote:

I think the images are so high resolution that we are really down to splitting hairs with this discussion on how to best sharpen images. There are many approaches to sharpening. Find the method that works best for you!

I totally agree. I do not apply whatever ppl say over here and have super sharp SD1 shoots.

At first : The noise reduction. Mabe my spp is broken but I cannot touch noise reduction if my shoot is below 400 ISO, like SD14/15 and Dps.

For me (and others) the first Spp do better job than lastest one.

I never touch sharpness in Spp.

95% of the time I don't have to sharpen in another editor.

95% of my bad results is bacause of bad focusing or too slow shutter speed.

On important thing about SD1, too, is to have photo perfectelly in focus

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Zone8
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Glad to read your post, LM!
In reply to Laurence Matson, Mar 30, 2012

It's good to see you're back Laurence ....

.... and .....

your front, too!

Remember what God said to Moses:

"Keep taking the tablets"

Very best wishes.

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Kendall Helmstetter Gelner
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Re: Humble Pie, or I never stop learning
In reply to Laurence Matson, Mar 30, 2012

That's a great distillation of what Cinefeel has been saying, I'll take advantage of that in my own processing shortly...

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carlos roncatti
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Re: Humble Pie, or I never stop learning
In reply to Laurence Matson, Mar 30, 2012

Laurence Matson wrote:

4. Finally, apply cinefeel's magic: a high percentage combined with a very small radius. My rule of thumb is that the integers should add up to 6. So, for instance, 300% and 0.3 or 200% and 0.4. As usual, if something is good, a little less is better. And the 6 guideline is not carved in stone, as I am sure Tom Parker readers know.

processing that has been used by Dave Etchells from IR sice he released his wesite...a long, long time ago......
example:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/AA700/AA700IMAGING.HTM

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Obscura
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Re: Humble Pie, or I never stop learning
In reply to Laurence Matson, Mar 30, 2012

Laurence Matson wrote:

2. Sharpen or not in SPP depending on the lens. This takes some experimenting. With the two lenses above, I would likely leave sharpening nearer 0 on the former and much closer to -2 on the latter, as examples. Look carefully at what the lens has produced.

This whole time I've been mis-reading things as -0.2 and having a difficult time noticing any difference at all between 0.0 and -0.2. Just had a look at -2.0 on a few images.

Continued experimentation is in order. Having fun getting to know the SD1M.
--
Obscura

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Jaelkay
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Re: Humble Pie, or I never stop learning
In reply to Laurence Matson, Mar 30, 2012

Welcome back.

No black dogs this end. A small grey one in the quise of our national Sigma distributor is being dealt with currently.

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Nancy and Pete Spader
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Re: Humble Pie, or I never stop learning
In reply to Laurence Matson, Mar 30, 2012

Sorry to hear you had that fight with the black dog, and glad to hear you are back with those wonderful dogs you raise.

Sharpening has always been one of those things many people do not thing much about but it is cruicial to the IQ you get both when viewing and printing. I remember the "fun" you and Dominic had finding out how to handle the SD9 large prints. At least with the SD Merrill you start with enough data that is no longer the primary problem.

Pete and Nancy

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