Pentax switching to unilateral pricing

Started Mar 29, 2012 | Discussions
SenorBeef
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Re: Pentax, you are dead to me now
In reply to Brentliris, Apr 2, 2012

SenorBeef if you return your camera you will be missing out on a great system, sure you get in on the other brands product, but does it have the elements that attracted you to Pentax in the first place? Weathersealing, Low Light performance, Dynamic Range. Usablitly ? The lenses your interested in can be bought on Amazon right now for the prices you were seeing from B+H or Adorama or less..

"Value" is one of those things I was looking for, along with the rest. Pentax has some good deals on lenses - the limited lenses are unique and better in some ways than more expensive glass. But if the price goes up 20-50%, they've lost that value and the total cost of my camera + lens system goes up significantly. It was already a hard decision to choose Pentax because of lack of retail presence, support, etc. but ultimately the cameras and lenses won me over. But price was part of that - if it's going to cost me 30%+ more to buy the lenses I wanted, I have to reconsider.

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snake_b
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Re: Pentax switching to unilateral pricing
In reply to Marc Sabatella, Apr 2, 2012

tl;dr

Marc Sabatella wrote:

snake_b wrote:

So Canon and Nikon aren't the only ones using outdated lenses, apparently. Additionally, Pentax makes it a selling point that outdated lenses still work.

I never said there was anything wrong with offering older lenes. But you trying to make a point about "selection". Aside from the aforemtioned variations on the same old consumer zooms, Canon and Nikon only offer older designs at most focal lengths. Only Pentax offers you a choice between those and lenses actually designed for APS-C digital DSLR's.

Again, if you don't care about such things and are happy buying whatever happens to be cheapest, fine, then sayso. But you can't then claim it is all about offering "selection". Offering some real choices is where Pentax still wins, even with the price increase (assuming they stay as they are - my guess is they will settle down soon enough).

Anyone who thought the main reason to buy Pentax was because of price has not been paying attention. Pentax DSLR sustems have not been cheaper than the alternatives on average at any point ever . Some individual camera and lens models have come in a little cheaper than the competition, others a little more - on average, it all works put the same. The reasons to choose Pentax are the qualities that make it unique - SR, some real choice in small high quality primes, WR. Those haven't changed. It just got somewhat more expensive to make that choice. And only time will tell how these prices will actually pan out.

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henryp
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Re: Pentax switching to unilateral pricing
In reply to Brentliris, Apr 2, 2012

Brentliris wrote:

Adorama and B+H have done this type add to cart price trick thing for quite awhile, but often when you compare their prices to other retailers such as Pro Digital 2000 you get aleast as good a deal. Pro Digital 2000 just states the asking price plain and simple.

The "add to cart," or "click here for price," or "email for best price" links are the ways retailers have to do things to conform to MAP (min advertised price) rules.

With "unilateral pricing," the lowest selling price is set by the vendor and there's no way around it.

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Henry Posner
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henryp
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Re: Pentax switching to unilateral pricing
In reply to KentG, Apr 2, 2012

KentG wrote:

I know several manufacturers who have been doing a version of this for years.

Celestron International is a good example. There are 2 prices on an item, the MSRP and the MAP. MSRP we all know means Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price. This price has nothing to do with the price it will sell at. It is more of a value associated price for bookkeeping and company value purposes. Then there is MAP which means Manufacturers Adjusted Price. In Celestron's case that is the real price and the dealer gets a profit in their case on say a telescope based on paying some lower value for the item (magins are not big either). If a dealer is found selling below MAP thay can lose their dealership to sell the products.

MAP = Minimum Advertized Price and sets the lowest price a retailer can advertize a product for. This has no impact at all on the actual selling price.

Under an MAP agreement a retailer risks economic consequences for showing a price lower than the minimum set by the vendor but can charge any price the retailer wishes to.

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Henry Posner
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snake_b
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Re: Pentax switching to unilateral pricing
In reply to henryp, Apr 2, 2012

So does this mean we can make deals in-store?

I've not had much success doing that with you guys, but much better with J&R.

henryp wrote:

Brentliris wrote:

Adorama and B+H have done this type add to cart price trick thing for quite awhile, but often when you compare their prices to other retailers such as Pro Digital 2000 you get aleast as good a deal. Pro Digital 2000 just states the asking price plain and simple.

The "add to cart," or "click here for price," or "email for best price" links are the ways retailers have to do things to conform to MAP (min advertised price) rules.

With "unilateral pricing," the lowest selling price is set by the vendor and there's no way around it.

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Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video

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carlgt1
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jeez 40% price jump on the lens I wanted
In reply to SenorBeef, Apr 2, 2012

it was in my B&H cart at $599 a few days ago, now $850!

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Brentliris
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Re: Pentax switching to unilateral pricing
In reply to henryp, Apr 2, 2012

henryp wrote:

Brentliris wrote:

Adorama and B+H have done this type add to cart price trick thing for quite awhile, but often when you compare their prices to other retailers such as Pro Digital 2000 you get aleast as good a deal. Pro Digital 2000 just states the asking price plain and simple.

The "add to cart," or "click here for price," or "email for best price" links are the ways retailers have to do things to conform to MAP (min advertised price) rules.

With "unilateral pricing," the lowest selling price is set by the vendor and there's no way around it.

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Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video

I wasn't trying to denigrate B+H, or Adorama or any others that have this pricing technique it's just seemed somehow a strange round about way to get the final price. I realize more clearly now that the retailers have to conform to the MAP, it just seemed there has been a breakdown in what to me would be the preferred modus. Understandings and good relations between the Manufacturer and the Retailer, this add to basket to see price just seemed somehow like an unhappy compromise.

I totally salute retailers bringing the best prices to their customers and have benefitted from the practice when I bought 2 of my DA limiteds from Adorama some 3 years ago..

I'm presently looking at B&H for their extensive choice of filters and adaptors. So I'm interested in the company and see they have done a great job through the years.

Brent

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Reflections, understandings, discoveries and intimations..

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Edvinas
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Re: Amazon Unchanged
In reply to AllBrands, Apr 2, 2012

AllBrands wrote:

Amazon doesn't have to change prices if they've decided to dump existing inventory at the old discounted prices and simply not carry Pentax products any more.

I don't care what Amazon have decided, however my money instead of B&H went to Amazon: just bought DA 15mm Limited for $510 there instead of $650 everywhere else...

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Edvinas

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Boris
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Re: jeez 40% price jump on the lens I wanted
In reply to carlgt1, Apr 2, 2012

Pentax is doing a good job making Nikon and Canon look affordable.
Boris

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Boris
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Re: jeez 40% price jump on the lens I wanted
In reply to Boris, Apr 2, 2012

Amazon today jumped the price of the Pentax SMC 15mm f/4.0 DA from $509.95 to $649.95....lol $140!
Boris
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Edvinas
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Re: jeez 40% price jump on the lens I wanted
In reply to Boris, Apr 2, 2012

Boris wrote:

Pentax is doing a good job making Nikon and Canon look affordable.

Definitely. Now even my transition to Nikon FF doesn't look expensive anymore: this weekend I've managed to buy Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8 for the current price of DA* 16-50mm...

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Edvinas

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Edvinas
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Re: jeez 40% price jump on the lens I wanted
In reply to Boris, Apr 2, 2012

Boris wrote:

Amazon today jumped the price of the Pentax SMC 15mm f/4.0 DA from $509.95 to $649.95....lol $140!

I just hope that Amazon wil honour my order, which I've made less than two hours ago, still for $509.95...

BTW, two hours ago there were close to 10 DA 15mm in stock there, now only three have left. I bet Amazon won't run out of stock with this lens now

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Edvinas

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snake_b
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Re: jeez 40% price jump on the lens I wanted
In reply to Boris, Apr 2, 2012

You noticed that, too?

I'm pricing the D7000 instead of the K5. While the body is only about 70-90 euros more in new and used forms than the K5, the lenses are plentiful and everywhere. In fact, so many, I don't know where to start.

Boris wrote:

Pentax is doing a good job making Nikon and Canon look affordable.
Boris

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Maxwell Smart
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Re: Pentax switching to unilateral pricing
In reply to Marc Sabatella, Apr 2, 2012

Marc Sabatella wrote:

Anyone who thought the main reason to buy Pentax was because of price has not been paying attention. Pentax DSLR sustems have not been cheaper than the alternatives on average at any point ever . Some individual camera and lens models have come in a little cheaper than the competition, others a little more - on average, it all works put the same. The reasons to choose Pentax are the qualities that make it unique - SR, some real choice in small high quality primes, WR. Those haven't changed.

Not to be argumentative but...my first DSLR was a new ist* DL that came with the 18-55 kit lens for only $367 from Beach Camera in July 2006. Way, way cheaper than any alternative DSLR camera and at the time there was no Shake Reduction or weather-sealing available. THE reason to buy Pentax at that time was price. This was back when the DA40 was $220, the FA50 was $162. Today, six years later, those same lenses are $500 and $450 respectively.

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Mark Ransom
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Re: Pentax switching to unilateral pricing
In reply to Maxwell Smart, Apr 2, 2012

I still kick myself for not buying the FA 300 for $650 back in the day. The DA 300 I think was twice that last week, I'm afraid to look at it now.

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rogerstpierre
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Re: jeez 40% price jump on the lens I wanted
In reply to carlgt1, Apr 2, 2012

Sounds like the major photo retailers are perhaps trying to either get a quick buck and blame Pentax for the price hike, or sending a msg to Pentax because they're p*&^%-off that they won't be getting their sweet preferential deal anymore. There is no reason why a stock that was in all likelihood bought a while ago probably at a discounted rate need to come up 40% overnight. The solution... boycott those retailers ! Supply and demand rules.

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Markbrumbaugh
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Re: Pentax switching to unilateral pricing
In reply to SenorBeef, Apr 3, 2012

Come on guys, the marketing pendulum swings. They (pentax) need to make a buck and they need to be competitive . If isnt what works for you, buy another system. I've been with Pentax for 40 years. On average...works for me.

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GeeEmm
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Re: Amazon Unchanged
In reply to Edvinas, Apr 3, 2012

Edvinas wrote:

AllBrands wrote:

Amazon doesn't have to change prices if they've decided to dump existing inventory at the old discounted prices and simply not carry Pentax products any more.

I don't care what Amazon have decided, however my money instead of B&H went to Amazon: just bought DA 15mm Limited for $510 there instead of $650 everywhere else...

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Edvinas

I have just ordered a 60-250 locally, put a deposit down but they are awaiting stock. Been watching it for awhile, agonising over parting with that cash ... but this pushed me. Even though the change can't be made here, the new policy may still be enacted but through a different mechanism.

Just wondering, has anyone seen any changes to Oz pricing for lenses?

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streamntry
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Re: Pentax switching to unilateral pricing
In reply to SenorBeef, Apr 3, 2012

I had planned to buy the 15mm and 300mm this year and possibly the K-5 replacement, but not with this policy. I'll make do with my 12-24mm, 55-300mm and K-7. I've been with Pentax since the 70s but this really puts me off and doesn't seem like a good plan to increase revenue or profits.
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GeeEmm
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Re: Pentax switching to unilateral pricing
In reply to streamntry, Apr 3, 2012

I understand your (and others) concerns, but it is early days yet.

The marketplace changes are probably largely the retailers gaming Pentax, and we (you) will have to wait a while, months probably for the market to stabilise and the full impact be seen and assessed.

In Australia, they will have to play a different game to exercise more control over prices, which we will watch for.

We will also be looking at the Singapre and HK retailers, to see how they react, and the grey market importers.

streamntry wrote:

I had planned to buy the 15mm and 300mm this year and possibly the K-5 replacement, but not with this policy. I'll make do with my 12-24mm, 55-300mm and K-7. I've been with Pentax since the 70s but this really puts me off and doesn't seem like a good plan to increase revenue or profits.
--
Edwin C.

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