X10 filew raw processing

Started Mar 25, 2012 | Discussions
christos_tolis
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X10 filew raw processing
Mar 25, 2012

Hi there. New to Fuji

Just got an X10 (and waiting for my X-Pro1) to arrive also. A question though...

My preferred workflow up to now (all Canon gear...) was to do all the "developing" in Lightroom. I've never shot a JPEG image as far back as I can recall

I have to say though that I hate Silky... Mainly for the UI I guess...

What would you suggest I do ? Turn everything into Tiff in Silky and the do all the other stuff in Lightroom or Photoshop...?

Amy other ideas...?

Chris

Fujifilm X10 Fujifilm X-Pro1
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Framer
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Re: X10 filew raw processing
In reply to christos_tolis, Mar 25, 2012

It should work with the current version of LR, maybe an update is needed?

It works with the latest version of ACR so I am pretty sure the RAF files should be recognized by LR as well...

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Mark H
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DNG converter...
In reply to christos_tolis, Mar 25, 2012

christos_tolis wrote:

Hi there. New to Fuji

Just got an X10 (and waiting for my X-Pro1) to arrive also. A question though...

My preferred workflow up to now (all Canon gear...) was to do all the "developing" in Lightroom. I've never shot a JPEG image as far back as I can recall

I have to say though that I hate Silky... Mainly for the UI I guess...

What would you suggest I do ? Turn everything into Tiff in Silky and the do all the other stuff in Lightroom or Photoshop...?

Amy other ideas...?

If you don't have a compatible version of Lightroom or Photoshop, then you can convert the Fuji .RAF files to Adobe 'DNG' format using the free stand-alone Adobe DNG converter utility, the DNG files should then work in older versions of LR and PS.

http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/extend.displayTab2.html#downloads

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timo
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Re: X10 filew raw processing
In reply to christos_tolis, Mar 25, 2012

See various threads on this forum about the way ACR and Lightroom treat (or rather mistreat) X10 raw files.

If you convert in Silkypix to tif files how big are the files?

tim

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skyfotos
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Re: X10 filew raw processing
In reply to timo, Mar 25, 2012

The only RAW files that LR processes properly are RAW+JPG size M. If the ISO is 2x or greater than the DR setting one gets 10MB files otherwise the files are 19MB. I am unsure whether 19MB files produce better quality than 10MB files (other than the DR range). The question is whether the EXR engine is invoked at either of these settings.

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Timur Born
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Re: X10 filew raw processing
In reply to skyfotos, Mar 25, 2012

Lightroom can process all RAW files types of the X10, but those files that make use of the sensor's EXR DR method get a purple tint on the highlights of the longer exposed sensor half.

All other files will work properly in Lightroom, regardless of whether they are 19 mb or 10 mb. But 12 mp L sized files will lack detail compared to the out-of-camera JPG. Adobe is aware of the latter and plan on improving it, but don't have a timetable for that (may happen, or may not).

There are different types of RAW files on the X10:

  • 12 mp size L with or without HR DR (RAW or RAW+JPG). It's the job of the RAW converter to demosaic the image to 4000x3000 pixels and apply tone-curves for HR DR (the camera just underexposes internally). Some converters throw away half the sensor information and only create an M size image (Capture One).

  • 12 mp size M with EXR DR (RAW+JPG). It's the job of the RAW converter to demosaic the image to 2816 x 2112, apply curves to the shorter exposed half and blend both halves. Silkypix/EX throws away most (sometimes all) of the longer exposed half information and mostly (sometimes only) creates an image out of the longer exposed half (not just highlights stuff). These files handle differently in each converter, some better (Capture One), some in between (Lightroom), some worse (Silkypix).

  • 12 mp size M with HR DR (RAW+JPG). It's the job of the RAW converter to demosaic the image to 2816 x 2112, apply curves for HR DR and pixel-bin both halves together for better SN.

  • 12 mp size M without HR DR (RAW+JPG). It's the job of the RAW converter to demosaic the image to 2816 x 2112 and pixel-bin both halves together for better SN.

  • 6 mp size M with HR DR (RAW+JPG, ISO 2x DR). The camera seems to do the pixel-binning and likely even curves! Some RAW converters cannot load these files at all (Capture One), those that can should all be able to handle them well. But as a consequence to the camera's pre-production these files react differently to RAW converters' controls (exposure, highlights etc) compared to 12 mp files. This means that the same RAW converter setting will have a different outcome.

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Marek07
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Re: X10 filew raw processing
In reply to christos_tolis, Mar 25, 2012

I have to agree, within an hour of using the Fuji RAW converter silky I uninstalled and got rid, I find it clumsy and slow. I now use the RAW converter in CS5 and get great results, I just had to get a plug in from the adobe site.

 Marek07's gear list:Marek07's gear list
Fujifilm X10 Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM
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christos_tolis
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Re: X10 filew raw processing
In reply to Marek07, Mar 25, 2012

Ok...

I have to admit that I hadn't realized that there where so many different RAW file types that could come from this camera.

The files I produced thus far are 19MB ones.

I will try to import them into Lightroom (I have LR 4). So far I was simply all too convinced that they would have been mis-processed if I may say so I hadn't tried.

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christos_tolis
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Re: X10 filew raw processing
In reply to christos_tolis, Mar 25, 2012

Final question...

Is there any point to using the DR settings when shooting RAW or does this only affect the JPEG engine (not talking EXR here)...?

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Timur Born
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Re: X10 filew raw processing
In reply to christos_tolis, Mar 25, 2012

ISO 100 + DR 200 and ISO 100 - 320 + DR 400 in combination with "RAW+JPG" and size "M" produces real EXR sensor DR files. But these are the ones that Lightroom may process with a purple tint in the highlights of the lesser exposed half. You have to try with your own files, but this is the only true DR method that expands dynamic range at base ISO.

Advantage of this DR method is that it can lessen the amount of blooming orbs somewhat (lesser exposed half), the drawback is that it adds noise compared to other M size images, visible even at ISO 100.

With any other 19 mb DR files it shouldn't make much of a difference except that Lightroom will apply the corresponding curves for you and set them at zero slider values. You can just as much underexpose at lower ISO and lift shadows + mids manually, it's more a thing of convenience. This DR method does not expand dynamic range, but only protects from losing highlight protection (and likely some dynamic range) due to higher amplification/ISO at anything higher than base ISO.

The 10 mb DR files are pre-processed and especially pre-binned in-camera and thus behave very differently to sliders/values in Lightroom, so while the total dynamic-range is the same you may get different "in-between" results. Again a thing of convenience and taste.

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Kim Letkeman
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sorry, what is wrong with using your preferred work flow?
In reply to christos_tolis, Mar 25, 2012

christos_tolis wrote:

Hi there. New to Fuji

Just got an X10 (and waiting for my X-Pro1) to arrive also. A question though...

My preferred workflow up to now (all Canon gear...) was to do all the "developing" in Lightroom. I've never shot a JPEG image as far back as I can recall

I have to say though that I hate Silky... Mainly for the UI I guess...

What would you suggest I do ? Turn everything into Tiff in Silky and the do all the other stuff in Lightroom or Photoshop...?

Amy other ideas...?

You don't state here why your preferred work flow will not work. I process X10 images in LR4 beta 1 all the time. And in CS5 and now CS6 beta.

I am comfortable with EXR processing, with sharpening being the most difficult part. I have addressed that here:

http://kimletkeman.blogspot.ca/2012/03/sharpening-fuji-x10-raw-files.html

YMMV of course, but I see no advantage to using Silkypix, unless you feel that you cannot reproduce so-called "Fuji color" by tweaking your own LR defaults.

 Kim Letkeman's gear list:Kim Letkeman's gear list
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Kim Letkeman
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Re: X10 filew raw processing
In reply to christos_tolis, Mar 25, 2012

christos_tolis wrote:

Final question...

Is there any point to using the DR settings when shooting RAW or does this only affect the JPEG engine (not talking EXR here)...?

I shoot JPEG+RAW with M size, DR400 in PASM modes all the time with the F550 and eventually concluded that this was also the best overall mode for most scenes with the X10 as well.

Once you have the capture, you will have to relearn some techniques in LR to handle EXR data, but it responds well in my experience. So don't let all the complex mumbo-jumbo scare you off of your preferred work flow. If you want to tweak your settings for every shot, that is of course your choice. I use P mode as described here for all general shooting:

http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com/2009/10/fuji-f70exr-how-to-shoot-it-mkii.html

When shooting hockey games and concerts, I exert a bit more control over the camera in M mode, varying ISO mainly since I want an adequate shutter speed at the lowest possible ISO. That too is described in the same article, and also here:

http://kimletkeman.blogspot.ca/2010/09/important-tips-for-your-photography.html

 Kim Letkeman's gear list:Kim Letkeman's gear list
Nikon Coolpix 990 Fujifilm FinePix F200EXR Fujifilm FinePix F770EXR Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF3 +16 more
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