What can LR4 do for you?

Started Mar 21, 2012 | Discussions
Adventsam
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,983
Like?
What can LR4 do for you?
Mar 21, 2012

OK, I had got around to this a few weeks back and took some pretty blown out skies, wrong wb and crooked shots and used std jpg settings all turned down as I recall, -2 all the way. Just to see what could be retrieved in lr4, here was an example, now I dont know about others but pulling skies this blown from any other raw converter(incl lr3) and balancing the image all in less than 5mins? well can you see why I think the GH2 has been transformed? I will repeat that 5n in particular was what I tested it against does not benefit to the same degree, you could already pull skies with lr3.6 well with most aps-c cameras. The point is, lr4 does allow the same ability and maybe even more for the gh2. Now call me mad, call me what you will but unless I'm mistaken the GH2 just gained some dr, quite a lot, how many stops headroom? and m43 has no hl headroom according to dpr, think again, think seriously again! I will point out as well, that isnt the full story, with a nd grad applied in lr4 I could just go darker and darker pulling detail-shading etc.

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2
If you believe there are incorrect tags, please send us this post using our feedback form.
Aleo Veuliah
Forum ProPosts: 14,490Gear list
Like?
Re: What can LR4 do for you?
In reply to Adventsam, Mar 21, 2012

LightRoom 4 is really improved, but you can do the same on LR3, Bibble Pro, Capture One Pro, or in the good and free Rawtherapee for Windows and Linuxm, and you still have the very good Silkypix, or even the ACDsee Pro

-- hide signature --

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

God is the tangential point between zero and infinity.

Imagination is more important than knowledge.

God always take the simplest way.

 Aleo Veuliah's gear list:Aleo Veuliah's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ1000 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-G2 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4 +4 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Adventsam
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,983
Like?
Re: What can LR4 do for you?
In reply to Aleo Veuliah, Mar 21, 2012

No you cannot? you cannot pull m43 files like that in any raw converter, other than lr4 and expect to retireve sky and hl's like that, you are just plain wrong. You can barely do it with a ff image AFAIK. As soon as you pull it you will get extreme colour shift and even if you can get the sky in check you will disturb other things. I will pop the raw file in dropbox soon, you try and then demonstrate?

Aleo Veuliah wrote:

LightRoom 4 is really improved, but you can do the same on LR3, Bibble Pro, Capture One Pro, or in the good and free Rawtherapee for Windows and Linuxm, and you still have the very good Silkypix, or even the ACDsee Pro

-- hide signature --

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

God is the tangential point between zero and infinity.

Imagination is more important than knowledge.

God always take the simplest way.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
amtberg
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,450
Like?
Re: What can LR4 do for you?
In reply to Adventsam, Mar 21, 2012

It would interesting if you could post a RAW pic that you think is a good example for what LR4 can do and other converters cannot. Then we can all compare notes and see what's what.

Adventsam wrote:

No you cannot? you cannot pull m43 files like that in any raw converter, other than lr4 and expect to retireve sky and hl's like that, you are just plain wrong. You can barely do it with a ff image AFAIK. As soon as you pull it you will get extreme colour shift and even if you can get the sky in check you will disturb other things. I will pop the raw file in dropbox soon, you try and then demonstrate?

Aleo Veuliah wrote:

LightRoom 4 is really improved, but you can do the same on LR3, Bibble Pro, Capture One Pro, or in the good and free Rawtherapee for Windows and Linuxm, and you still have the very good Silkypix, or even the ACDsee Pro

-- hide signature --

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

God is the tangential point between zero and infinity.

Imagination is more important than knowledge.

God always take the simplest way.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Bilgy_no1
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,880
Like?
Re: The missing shot
In reply to Adventsam, Mar 21, 2012

For this comparison to be convincing, you need to also show a shot with -2EV developed in another RAW program (LR3 e.g. to show how LR4 has improved).

Adventsam wrote:

OK, I had got around to this a few weeks back and took some pretty blown out skies, wrong wb and crooked shots and used std jpg settings all turned down as I recall, -2 all the way. Just to see what could be retrieved in lr4, here was an example, now I dont know about others but pulling skies this blown from any other raw converter(incl lr3) and balancing the image all in less than 5mins? well can you see why I think the GH2 has been transformed? I will repeat that 5n in particular was what I tested it against does not benefit to the same degree, you could already pull skies with lr3.6 well with most aps-c cameras. The point is, lr4 does allow the same ability and maybe even more for the gh2. Now call me mad, call me what you will but unless I'm mistaken the GH2 just gained some dr, quite a lot, how many stops headroom? and m43 has no hl headroom according to dpr, think again, think seriously again! I will point out as well, that isnt the full story, with a nd grad applied in lr4 I could just go darker and darker pulling detail-shading etc.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
BillHinge
Senior MemberPosts: 1,029
Like?
Re: What can LR4 do for you?
In reply to Adventsam, Mar 21, 2012

Hi

Could you just clarify, did you do the second image from a jpeg or a RAW file?
Looks pretty good if you can manage that from the jpeg!

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
dcassat
Senior MemberPosts: 1,168Gear list
Like?
Just more information
In reply to Adventsam, Mar 21, 2012

I use the gradation filter all of the time to pop skies back into place. There has to be some information there but with 3.6 I've come close to what you are showing here. You're probably going to have to show us more to prove the point.

Dan

 dcassat's gear list:dcassat's gear list
Sigma DP1 Merrill Olympus OM-D E-M5 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH Panasonic Leica D Summilux Asph 25mm F1.4 +5 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Bob Meyer
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,361Gear list
Like?
Re: What can LR4 do for you?
In reply to Aleo Veuliah, Mar 21, 2012

Advent is a bit over the top in his continual posts about LR4 in this forum (instead of Digital Darkroom, where I think they belong), but he's right that LR4, using the 2012 processing engine, is significantly better than LR3 at pulling detail out of both highlights and shadows without creating visible artifacts. NR is also improved, as is the ability to increase micro-contrast without creating artifacts.

I've only used Silkypix a little, but found it was certainly no better than LR3, maybe not as good, so I'd say LR4 is better than SP, too. I haven't used the other tools you listed in a long time, or never, so I won't compare those.

LR4 is pretty darned impressive, though, and a significant advance over LR4.
--

Bokeh is the aesthetic quality of the blur in out-of-focus areas of an image, or the way the lens renders out-of-focus points of light. Bokeh is not the same as depth of field (DOF).

 Bob Meyer's gear list:Bob Meyer's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH3 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 7-14mm F4 ASPH Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH Panasonic Lumix G Vario 100-300mm F4-5.6 OIS +12 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
nxp3
Regular MemberPosts: 365
Like?
We have a challenger
In reply to Aleo Veuliah, Mar 21, 2012

You know what would really be cool is if there were some kind of contest here where a bad picture, in RAW, is posted by a user. Then different people will use that to try to make it look their best using various software. The picture would be judged by user's votes. The winner will explain what software and techniques they used to accomplish the final result. This would be a great learning experience for people who are trying to learn...like me
--
-bokehmokehshmokeh-

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
BillHinge
Senior MemberPosts: 1,029
Like?
Re: We have a challenger
In reply to nxp3, Mar 21, 2012

I've often had the same thought

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Bob Tullis
Forum ProPosts: 27,534Gear list
Like?
It does for everyone what it does for you.
In reply to Adventsam, Mar 21, 2012

I quite appreciate the excitement that LR4 brings to developing too. I don't know if it is a revelation (compared to LR3) for all supported cameras, but it gave new life to the Pens I use, just as you find with your GH2. Understand, I'm not suggesting the Pens now produce better results than the GH2 - only both have had their game upped to a similar degree. The complaint I particularly had with the limited adjustment leeway of the higher end of the tonal range with the latest Pens has vanished with LR4, along with the all the other benefits it's brought to RAW manipulations.

Everyone who seriously assesses these cameras knows the GH2 is (or was) the one to beat. Even those of us who wanted to embrace it but couldn't. You don't have to preach its merits, it's all out there to plainly see if one cares to look. When you do preach or get on the defensive about the "competition". . . let's just say it doesn't enhance your reputation as a peer one would respect. And when you show what you can do with it, I'm let down a bit - the way you rant I expect to be awed. It is your rants that ups the bar - a legendary camera should produce legendary results. But legendary results call for more than just gear and LR4.

Your work, while technically decent, is not of the caliber of one top poster who doesn't/didn't use LR4 with his/her GH2. It might be useful to ponder that for a few moments. That is - get over the gear and the software, and you might discover even more potential within.

-- hide signature --

...Bob, NYC
http://www.bobtullis.com

"Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't." - Little Big Man
.

 Bob Tullis's gear list:Bob Tullis's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Olympus E-M1 Rokinon 7.5mm 1:3.5 UMC Fisheye CS Voigtlander Nokton 17.5mm F0.95 Aspherical Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 +21 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Adventsam
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,983
Like?
Re: It does for everyone what it does for you.
In reply to Bob Tullis, Mar 21, 2012

Bob, I did try to not make it not GH2 specific, ie what can lr4 do for you? I agree with your comments. Raw and lr4 is imo more important now than camera selection now once you have an intermediate level camera and lens and are happy with it? I can see what a switch to x/y/z can give people but out and out iq is getting closer and closer at base iso to iso3200 even 6400 and dr, well again theres not a lot in it, its all subjective?

I will post the raw, but am not near my dropbox-laptop that I can drop it into for a few hours.

Bob Tullis wrote:

I quite appreciate the excitement that LR4 brings to developing too. I don't know if it is a revelation (compared to LR3) for all supported cameras, but it gave new life to the Pens I use, just as you find with your GH2. Understand, I'm not suggesting the Pens now produce better results than the GH2 - only both have had their game upped to a similar degree. The complaint I particularly had with the limited adjustment leeway of the higher end of the tonal range with the latest Pens has vanished with LR4, along with the all the other benefits it's brought to RAW manipulations.

Everyone who seriously assesses these cameras knows the GH2 is (or was) the one to beat. Even those of us who wanted to embrace it but couldn't. You don't have to preach its merits, it's all out there to plainly see if one cares to look. When you do preach or get on the defensive about the "competition". . . let's just say it doesn't enhance your reputation as a peer one would respect. And when you show what you can do with it, I'm let down a bit - the way you rant I expect to be awed. It is your rants that ups the bar - a legendary camera should produce legendary results. But legendary results call for more than just gear and LR4.

Your work, while technically decent, is not of the caliber of one top poster who doesn't/didn't use LR4 with his/her GH2. It might be useful to ponder that for a few moments. That is - get over the gear and the software, and you might discover even more potential within.

-- hide signature --

...Bob, NYC
http://www.bobtullis.com

"Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't." - Little Big Man
.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Simon Cowell
Senior MemberPosts: 2,507
Like?
Impressive! (n/t)
In reply to Adventsam, Mar 21, 2012
n/t
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Jerodequin
Senior MemberPosts: 1,248Gear list
Like?
A example...
In reply to Adventsam, Mar 21, 2012

Not the best comparison, but a clear difference in my eyes (and have found the same again an again since moving to LR4 from 3.5):

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1041&message=40338581

 Jerodequin's gear list:Jerodequin's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-TS2 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2 Olympus PEN E-PL3 Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH Panasonic Lumix G Vario 100-300mm F4-5.6 OIS +14 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
morepix
Veteran MemberPosts: 8,189Gear list
Like?
Yes, but ...
In reply to Bilgy_no1, Mar 21, 2012

Bilgy_no1 wrote:

For this comparison to be convincing, you need to also show a shot with -2EV developed in another RAW program (LR3 e.g. to show how LR4 has improved).

Advent has no obligation to convince anyone of anything. He's made a discovery he values and has graciously taken the time to share it for anyone who might be interested. Skeptics need not apply.
--
http://www.pbase.com/morepix

 morepix's gear list:morepix's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX7 Olympus Stylus 1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX100 Olympus OM-D E-M10
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Adventsam
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,983
Like?
Re: Raw file for everyone
In reply to Adventsam, Mar 21, 2012

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30483945/P1010296.RW2

Please feel free to use any raw converter, am interested to see your lr3/4, sp, raw therapee, dxo etc etc attempts.

Note, use nd grads in earlier lr is an option, but as you all know who use them, you will not get the purity of hl pulling through trees etc, hopefully you know what I mean.

Good luck.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Bilgy_no1
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,880
Like?
Re: Well...
In reply to morepix, Mar 21, 2012

morepix wrote:

Bilgy_no1 wrote:

For this comparison to be convincing, you need to also show a shot with -2EV developed in another RAW program (LR3 e.g. to show how LR4 has improved).

Advent has no obligation to convince anyone of anything. He's made a discovery he values and has graciously taken the time to share it for anyone who might be interested. Skeptics need not apply.
--
http://www.pbase.com/morepix

Advent is preaching the virtues of GH2 + LR4 vehemently. So while I agree he does not have the obligation to convince anyone, apparently he himself does feel that obligation. And in that case, he'd better do it right.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bilgy_no1

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
BillHinge
Senior MemberPosts: 1,029
Like?
Re: Raw file for everyone
In reply to Adventsam, Mar 21, 2012

I've done an attempt using SilkyPix 5 beta, are you OK with me posting it?

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Louis_Dobson
Forum ProPosts: 26,390
Like?
Re: We have a challenger
In reply to nxp3, Mar 21, 2012

I did that about five years ago in the Oly conf. The results were most interesting. And Studio, now Viewer, won. Wouldn't now, Viewer is terrifyingly bad.

nxp3 wrote:

You know what would really be cool is if there were some kind of contest here where a bad picture, in RAW, is posted by a user. Then different people will use that to try to make it look their best using various software. The picture would be judged by user's votes. The winner will explain what software and techniques they used to accomplish the final result. This would be a great learning experience for people who are trying to learn...like me
--
-bokehmokehshmokeh-

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
jazzbass62
Senior MemberPosts: 1,728Gear list
Like?
Does LR4 correct perspective distortion due to WA lens??
In reply to Adventsam, Mar 21, 2012

Adventsam: Just wondering - does LR4 allow you to straighten out vertical lines from WA images?? Not asking about CA, barrel, etc but just perspective for images taken without leveling camera...

Thanks for your post - it's helpful and informative!
--
---
Cleve

 jazzbass62's gear list:jazzbass62's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS3 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX1 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 14-45mm F3.5-5.6 ASPH OIS Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm 1:4-5.6 Panasonic Leica Summilux DG 25mm F1.4 +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads