D800 and 5DMkIII

Started Mar 18, 2012 | Discussions
inasir1971
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D800 and 5DMkIII
Mar 18, 2012

Having read the interviews and the details on the two cameras, which one to get is a difficult choice - they are quite different. Apparently achievable fps played a role in limiting it to 22MP.

If you're a photo journalist or sports shooter, it's a relatively easy choice - the Canon; it's got a great AF probably much better sensor than 5DMkII (has to be after this much time and for that much money); and Canon has a lot of glass aimed at this segment - just look at all the white lenses at any sporting event.

On the other hand, if you are more into landscape type photography like me or wildlife and need to crop but are invested into Canon glass it's a lot harder. The D800/D800E seems aimed at capturing details which is exactly what we're after, their technical manual even goes into lens suggestions and about the D800E:

http://www.nikonusa.com/en_US/o/Y6wrkA9OU_z04IreazIXl_22UII/PDF/D800_TechnicalGuide_En.pdf

The two are different and I guess a lot of people (like me where high ISO and fps are not important) are feeling frustrated at the direction the 5DMkIII went being invested in Canon glass.

I am based in Bangkok and walk-in Canon service centers are very easily accessible (sensor cleaning can be done while you have lunch) while Nikon don't have nearly the same accessibility to service centers (Canon can do this because they produce a wide range of products like printers) so I guess that is a plus for Canon.

I am sure that Canon will release a higher MP lower fps camera because there is clearly a demand for it, but when and how much who knows.

For now, the 5dMkIII seems the cheaper and logical albeit not the desired choice for people in my position.

Canon EOS 5D Nikon D800 Nikon D800E
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Guy Lerner
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Re: D800 and 5DMkIII
In reply to inasir1971, Mar 18, 2012

I suspect you'll find Nikon will be the only game in town for a super high-res, sub-$3,000 FF camera for a long time yet.

Were Canon to release a similar camera, in a similar price bracket, in the next year or two, I can't see it having:

  • Anywhere near the speed of the MkIII (3-4FPS tops)

  • Anywhere near the high-ISO IQ (will probably top out at 6400, like the D800)

  • Anywhere near the 2-3 stop DR advantage of the D800 at low ISO (Nikon/Sony seem to have patents in place on this technology, so unless Canon has re-engineered new technology...)

  • Anywhere near the AF speed or flexibility of the MkIII.

Add any of the above features to this camera and the price will quickly climb above $4,000.

I wouldn't say the D800 is suited to wildlife (unless it's slow moving) or action, so it really is a specialist landscape/studio camera. If that's what you're after, the 5D3 will be more than excellent, but the D800 will offer more for less money.

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tony field
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Re: D800 and 5DMkIII
In reply to inasir1971, Mar 18, 2012

If you are really concerned about the D800 vs the 5D-III, the best thing to do is get your hands on both cameras and shoot a few test shots (make sure they are identical images so you can compare).

All indications based on images available on the web is that the D800 has visibly greater detail than the 5D-III however the difference is less than you would "expect" from 36 vs 22 mpix when viewed on your monitor pixel peeping. Possibly this is because the AA filter on the Canon seems to be weaker than that of the Nikon.

If you are a competent scenic shooter, either camera will do very well. It all depends upon what your use of the images are. If you primarily display for web, you will not see any tangible difference between the cameras. If you intend to make 30x40 inch prints and view them up close, the Nikon will deliver somewhat more detail - on a 16x20 inch print, I doubt you will see any difference (when viewed at a normal viewing distance).

If you do a lot of cropping, the D800 will probably deliver smoother images.

To get the most out of the D800, you will have to have very high quality lenses that work well with the added numerical resolution.
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Taikonaut
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Re: D800 and 5DMkIII
In reply to inasir1971, Mar 18, 2012

Whenever I shoot landscape on my 5DMk2 I find myself using smaller aperture mostly f9-f12, any smaller I see diffraction which reduces the IQ and removes the advantage of having a higher MP. A 36mp like the D800 diffraction start at f9. Everyone talks about D800 as a great landscape camera without using it.

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Jorgen E
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I'd rather listen to Jim Brandenburg...
In reply to Taikonaut, Mar 18, 2012

Taikonaut wrote:

A 36mp like the D800 diffraction start at f9. Everyone talks about D800 as a great landscape camera without using it.

Jim Brandenburg has used it since last summer, and he obviously doesn't "suffer" the way you do. Quite the opposite, actually...

http://www.whatdigitalcamera.com/videos/reviews/532147/a-month-with-the-nikon-d800-exclusive-interview-with-jim-brandenburg.html

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Jorgen

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Mikael Risedal
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Re: D800 and 5DMkIII stop spreading myths
In reply to Taikonaut, Mar 18, 2012

samo samo you have not a clue what you are talking about , stop spreading MYTHS

Taikonaut wrote:

Whenever I shoot landscape on my 5DMk2 I find myself using smaller aperture mostly f9-f12, any smaller I see diffraction which reduces the IQ and removes the advantage of having a higher MP. A 36mp like the D800 diffraction start at f9. Everyone talks about D800 as a great landscape camera without using it.

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Mikael Risedal
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Re: D800 and 5DMkIII
In reply to inasir1971, Mar 18, 2012

Much better sensor, where when?

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.akam.no%2Fartikler%2Fsjekk-bildekvaliteten-pa-5d-mark-iii%2F107530&act=url

inasir1971 wrote:

Having read the interviews and the details on the two cameras, which one to get is a difficult choice - they are quite different. Apparently achievable fps played a role in limiting it to 22MP.

If you're a photo journalist or sports shooter, it's a relatively easy choice - the Canon; it's got a great AF probably much better sensor than 5DMkII (has to be after this much time and for that much money); and Canon has a lot of glass aimed at this segment - just look at all the white lenses at any sporting event.

On the other hand, if you are more into landscape type photography like me or wildlife and need to crop but are invested into Canon glass it's a lot harder. The D800/D800E seems aimed at capturing details which is exactly what we're after, their technical manual even goes into lens suggestions and about the D800E:

http://www.nikonusa.com/en_US/o/Y6wrkA9OU_z04IreazIXl_22UII/PDF/D800_TechnicalGuide_En.pdf

The two are different and I guess a lot of people (like me where high ISO and fps are not important) are feeling frustrated at the direction the 5DMkIII went being invested in Canon glass.

I am based in Bangkok and walk-in Canon service centers are very easily accessible (sensor cleaning can be done while you have lunch) while Nikon don't have nearly the same accessibility to service centers (Canon can do this because they produce a wide range of products like printers) so I guess that is a plus for Canon.

I am sure that Canon will release a higher MP lower fps camera because there is clearly a demand for it, but when and how much who knows.

For now, the 5dMkIII seems the cheaper and logical albeit not the desired choice for people in my position.

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inasir1971
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Re: D800 and 5DMkIII
In reply to tony field, Mar 18, 2012

tony field wrote:

If you are really concerned about the D800 vs the 5D-III, the best thing to do is get your hands on both cameras and shoot a few test shots (make sure they are identical images so you can compare).

Unfortunately, I am based in Asia and getting your 'hands on a camera' is impossible (as are returns). So you better know before you buy...

A lot of people on this forum, probably already have a lot of the high quality glass - but it's all Canon. Nikon means starting your lens collection (and accessories) from scratch. The money is not in the body...

When you're using an EF lens on an APS-C body like a 7D, you're pushing the glass to probably about where you would be with the D800 (as you're only using a much smaller, probably around or less than 50%, portion of the image circle formed by your lens to get 18MP).

Someone's posted a link to an interview with a photographer further down this thread which is pretty interesting.

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SpartanWarrior
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Re: D800 and 5DMkIII
In reply to Mikael Risedal, Mar 18, 2012

But it is so you should stop spreading MYTHS, seems you Nikon fanboys go with these kind of silly sites but refuse to see IR samples, nuff said...

Mikael Risedal wrote:
Much better sensor, where when?

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.akam.no%2Fartikler%2Fsjekk-bildekvaliteten-pa-5d-mark-iii%2F107530&act=url

inasir1971 wrote:

Having read the interviews and the details on the two cameras, which one to get is a difficult choice - they are quite different. Apparently achievable fps played a role in limiting it to 22MP.

If you're a photo journalist or sports shooter, it's a relatively easy choice - the Canon; it's got a great AF probably much better sensor than 5DMkII (has to be after this much time and for that much money); and Canon has a lot of glass aimed at this segment - just look at all the white lenses at any sporting event.

On the other hand, if you are more into landscape type photography like me or wildlife and need to crop but are invested into Canon glass it's a lot harder. The D800/D800E seems aimed at capturing details which is exactly what we're after, their technical manual even goes into lens suggestions and about the D800E:

http://www.nikonusa.com/en_US/o/Y6wrkA9OU_z04IreazIXl_22UII/PDF/D800_TechnicalGuide_En.pdf

The two are different and I guess a lot of people (like me where high ISO and fps are not important) are feeling frustrated at the direction the 5DMkIII went being invested in Canon glass.

I am based in Bangkok and walk-in Canon service centers are very easily accessible (sensor cleaning can be done while you have lunch) while Nikon don't have nearly the same accessibility to service centers (Canon can do this because they produce a wide range of products like printers) so I guess that is a plus for Canon.

I am sure that Canon will release a higher MP lower fps camera because there is clearly a demand for it, but when and how much who knows.

For now, the 5dMkIII seems the cheaper and logical albeit not the desired choice for people in my position.

 SpartanWarrior's gear list:SpartanWarrior's gear list
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inasir1971
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Re: D800 and 5DMkIII
In reply to Mikael Risedal, Mar 18, 2012

Mikael Risedal wrote:

Much better sensor, where when?

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.akam.no%2Fartikler%2Fsjekk-bildekvaliteten-pa-5d-mark-iii%2F107530&act=url

I didn't say better I said "probably much better sensor than 5DMkII (has to be after this much time and for that much money)" - as in one would expect Canon to have improved that aspect significantly especially since there is no improvement on the MP front.

Your link suggests otherwise.

I think we just need to wait to see the full proper independent sensor test scores and then make an informed decision. Switching to Nikon will mean changing entire lens collections for some of us - it's a big decision. I guess in the mean time we stop buying lenses.

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Mikael Risedal
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Re: D800 and 5DMkIII
In reply to inasir1971, Mar 18, 2012

im not talking about switching, im discussing if the sensor is MUCH better, nothing else

inasir1971 wrote:

Mikael Risedal wrote:

Much better sensor, where when?

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.akam.no%2Fartikler%2Fsjekk-bildekvaliteten-pa-5d-mark-iii%2F107530&act=url

I didn't say better I said "probably much better sensor than 5DMkII (has to be after this much time and for that much money)" - as in one would expect Canon to have improved that aspect significantly especially since there is no improvement on the MP front.

Your link suggests otherwise.

I think we just need to wait to see the full proper independent sensor test scores and then make an informed decision. Switching to Nikon will mean changing entire lens collections for some of us - it's a big decision. I guess in the mean time we stop buying lenses.

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Mikael Risedal
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Re: D800 and 5DMkIII
In reply to SpartanWarrior, Mar 18, 2012

sorry im a pro photographer since 1984 (google my name)
Im using Canon gear (Nikon Leica Hasselblad Sinar)
Im talking about facts noting else
I-R pictures are crap, different exposure

SpartanWarrior wrote:

But it is so you should stop spreading MYTHS, seems you Nikon fanboys go with these kind of silly sites but refuse to see IR samples, nuff said...

Mikael Risedal wrote:
Much better sensor, where when?

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.akam.no%2Fartikler%2Fsjekk-bildekvaliteten-pa-5d-mark-iii%2F107530&act=url

inasir1971 wrote:

Having read the interviews and the details on the two cameras, which one to get is a difficult choice - they are quite different. Apparently achievable fps played a role in limiting it to 22MP.

If you're a photo journalist or sports shooter, it's a relatively easy choice - the Canon; it's got a great AF probably much better sensor than 5DMkII (has to be after this much time and for that much money); and Canon has a lot of glass aimed at this segment - just look at all the white lenses at any sporting event.

On the other hand, if you are more into landscape type photography like me or wildlife and need to crop but are invested into Canon glass it's a lot harder. The D800/D800E seems aimed at capturing details which is exactly what we're after, their technical manual even goes into lens suggestions and about the D800E:

http://www.nikonusa.com/en_US/o/Y6wrkA9OU_z04IreazIXl_22UII/PDF/D800_TechnicalGuide_En.pdf

The two are different and I guess a lot of people (like me where high ISO and fps are not important) are feeling frustrated at the direction the 5DMkIII went being invested in Canon glass.

I am based in Bangkok and walk-in Canon service centers are very easily accessible (sensor cleaning can be done while you have lunch) while Nikon don't have nearly the same accessibility to service centers (Canon can do this because they produce a wide range of products like printers) so I guess that is a plus for Canon.

I am sure that Canon will release a higher MP lower fps camera because there is clearly a demand for it, but when and how much who knows.

For now, the 5dMkIII seems the cheaper and logical albeit not the desired choice for people in my position.

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SpartanWarrior
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Re: D800 and 5DMkIII
In reply to Mikael Risedal, Mar 18, 2012

I did google your name since you have no website on here, but professor google has nothing on you except stupid comparisons, just buy whatever camera you want and take pictures, both D800 and 5D III will sell well and be great cameras, sorry thats the way it is.

Mikael Risedal wrote:

sorry im a pro photographer since 1984 (google my name)

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Mikael Risedal
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Re: D800 and 5DMkIII
In reply to SpartanWarrior, Mar 18, 2012

cute, I discuss the facts, DR FWC read noise, etc.regardless of camera brand

SpartanWarrior wrote:

I did google your name since you have no website on here, but professor google has nothing on you except stupid comparisons, just buy whatever camera you want and take pictures, both D800 and 5D III will sell well and be great cameras, sorry thats the way it is.

Mikael Risedal wrote:

sorry im a pro photographer since 1984 (google my name)

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ukat123
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Re: D800 and 5DMkIII
In reply to Taikonaut, Mar 18, 2012

Taikonaut wrote:

Whenever I shoot landscape on my 5DMk2 I find myself using smaller aperture mostly f9-f12, any smaller I see diffraction which reduces the IQ and removes the advantage of having a higher MP. A 36mp like the D800 diffraction start at f9. Everyone talks about D800 as a great landscape camera without using it.

many landscape photographers shoot with a tilt and shift lens, in which case, you shoot at 4.5-5.6 which is the sweetspot of these lenses. so diffraction is not an issue

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ianbrown
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Re: D800 and 5DMkIII
In reply to tony field, Mar 18, 2012

You make an interesting point about needing high quality lenses for the 36mp sensor.

Would you say it's a waste of money to use say the 24-120 as it will not produce hgh enough IQ?

Ian

tony field wrote:

If you are really concerned about the D800 vs the 5D-III, the best thing to do is get your hands on both cameras and shoot a few test shots (make sure they are identical images so you can compare).

All indications based on images available on the web is that the D800 has visibly greater detail than the 5D-III however the difference is less than you would "expect" from 36 vs 22 mpix when viewed on your monitor pixel peeping. Possibly this is because the AA filter on the Canon seems to be weaker than that of the Nikon.

If you are a competent scenic shooter, either camera will do very well. It all depends upon what your use of the images are. If you primarily display for web, you will not see any tangible difference between the cameras. If you intend to make 30x40 inch prints and view them up close, the Nikon will deliver somewhat more detail - on a 16x20 inch print, I doubt you will see any difference (when viewed at a normal viewing distance).

If you do a lot of cropping, the D800 will probably deliver smoother images.

To get the most out of the D800, you will have to have very high quality lenses that work well with the added numerical resolution.
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http://www.tphoto.ca

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Rickard Hansson
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Re: D800 and 5DMkIII
In reply to Guy Lerner, Mar 18, 2012

One thing people donĀ“t think aboutor read about the D800/E is the 5 FPS in 1,2 crop mode and 6 fps in 1,5 crop mode (with batt. grip).

So, it can be suitable for some higher FPS shooting as well, but then in crop mode. You get 15.x Mp in 1,5 crop mode and even more in 1,52 crop mode.

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Rickard Hansson
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Ramjager
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Re: D800 and 5DMkIII
In reply to ukat123, Mar 18, 2012

Given Canon is the industry leader in tilt shift glass anyone using a 17 or 24 on a 5Dmk3 would get a far better result than anyone using a D800 and the Nikon equivalent..of which they don't up have anything to hold a candle to the new 24 or 17.

No amount of resampling down can restore detail lost in the process of creating an image due to diffraction.

You notice there are from what I've seen no images from Nikon with an f stop greater than F10 on the sample pages...I wonder why??

Having first hand experience with diffraction on my 1Dsmk3 tells me a LOT of people have blissfully forgotten diffraction and it's effects on IQ...

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Rickard Hansson
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Re: D800 and 5DMkIII
In reply to Mikael Risedal, Mar 18, 2012

SpartanWarrioir lives up to his name, he acts as an warrior in here, defending canon to the last drop, that is how i see it when looking thorugh his post history.

SpartanWarrior, it is not the end of the world to give both good AND bad criticism about any brand, including Canon.

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Rickard Hansson
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russbarnes
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Re: D800 and 5DMkIII
In reply to Ramjager, Mar 18, 2012

What a crock of cr@p. Granted, Nikon don't have a 17mm Tilt Shift (another lens you can't put a filter in front of so has limited if any use in landscape) but the 24mm PC-E is every bit as good as the Canon equivalent. If you believe otherwise then you've never even picked up the 24mm PC-E. It will be spectacular on the D800 - I'll be sure to post images of it in use on here once my D800 arrives.

Ramjager wrote:

Given Canon is the industry leader in tilt shift glass anyone using a 17 or 24 on a 5Dmk3 would get a far better result than anyone using a D800 and the Nikon equivalent..of which they don't up have anything to hold a candle to the new 24 or 17.

No amount of resampling down can restore detail lost in the process of creating an image due to diffraction.

You notice there are from what I've seen no images from Nikon with an f stop greater than F10 on the sample pages...I wonder why??

Having first hand experience with diffraction on my 1Dsmk3 tells me a LOT of people have blissfully forgotten diffraction and it's effects on IQ...

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