Here is the announcement by Fujifilm regarding ORBS

Started Mar 12, 2012 | Discussions
Timur Born
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Re: Can you provide a link to this statement?
In reply to Red Bicycle, Mar 12, 2012

For me the interesting question is: I was asked by Fuji to send in my X10 in order to get other issues fixed (overexposure when using AUTO DR). Do I go through this ordeal twice or do I wait?

Even more complicated, once you make use of a vendor's warranty service your original dealer's warranty is not covered any more. So the better option is to return the camera to the dealer, have him send it in and wait even longer.

Given that I feel like I have outgrown the X10 already I might just ask the dealer for a good offer on turning it in for another camera.

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Larry Winters
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Re: Can you provide a link to this statement?
In reply to Red Bicycle, Mar 12, 2012
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John Carson
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Re: Here is the announcement by Fujifilm regarding ORBS
In reply to rhtK7, Mar 12, 2012

rhtK7 wrote:

I'm sure they waited until they were confident they have a viable solution and timetable. I'm an engineer, and always hate when marketing promises something to a customer before we're sure it will work. I can just see engineers scrambling, working with their sensor supplier (assume they don't make their own), testing, modifying software etc. A different sensor will mean significant software changes, all of which need developed and tested. I would not expect this to be a trivial change. My guess is that Fuji have been working on this for several months already, and finally got to the point they see a line of sight to offering it to us.

Sounds plausible.

I have not seen orbs with my X-S1, even when trying to generate them. Given that, I would be very reluctant to have my sensor changed unless DPR were to publish test results for the old versus new sensor. When it comes to design, everything is a compromise. In this case, resolution vs noise vs dynamic range vs cost etc. Assuming they're sticking with EXR, then I believe this fix will result in a worsening of some other performance characteristic. To me, the question would be what gets worse, and by how much. It seems to me that the only hope of not suffering any performance would be if technological progress has been made since the sensor was originally designed.

Well, any new design could count as technological progress. It may also be the case that the original sensor used some cheap components. What may need to change is the budget.

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xoio
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So, will all the soppy orb-denial apologists wind their necks in now?
In reply to fava, Mar 12, 2012

I wonder...

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Billx08
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A possible Fuji Beancounter Solution
In reply to CrazyCanuk, Mar 12, 2012

CrazyCanuk wrote:

cprevost wrote:

Read carefully. Nowhere did they say that they will replace any sensors. Only that they are working on a new one and that you should contact your service center. Could be that new x10's will have the new sensor and the rest of us are screwed...

Why would they bother inviting current X10 owners to contact Fuji Tech if it wasn't to take some action... like replacing the sensor?

What they are saying is pretty simple... for those who are not satisfied with the camera's overall performance because of orbs bring your camera in and we'll replace the sensor.

Fuji may offer several options to current X10 owners. Replacing the sensor might have a couple of disincentives to convince owners to choose the less expensive options. This may mean that replacing the sensor may entail a fee and/or a lengthy delay in getting the upgraded camera back. Considering the number of cameras that might need surgery, it might take as much as one or even two months to get your camera back. Looking on the bright side, Fuji may even return the fixed cameras with vouchers good for a $25 or $50 rebate for each of up to three X-Pro lenses. The $50 rebates would be for the stabilized lenses and the $25 rebates for the others. One of these rebates could be used to expedite a quicker return of the "fixed" X10.

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Red Bicycle
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Re: Can you provide a link to this statement?
In reply to Red Bicycle, Mar 12, 2012

Sorry I meant an official link on a fuji website. I wanted to have that info when I contacted my service department in case there was any confusion but in the end the process was smooth and my camera is registered with them for a new sensor in May.
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Claudia P
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Re: Here is the announcement by Fujifilm regarding ORBS
In reply to Silent Oracle, Mar 12, 2012

I would imagine they were still working on the new sensor and had to wait until it was tested to make sure it worked before making the announcement.

Now that it apparently did it, will take a couple of months to get them into mass production and have stock to ship to the repair shops.

I am pleased with their announcement, it looks as if they really are stepping up to the plate even if I did take them longer than it should have.

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Billx08
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Re: Just got off the phone with my local authorized repair center (NJ, USA)
In reply to lol101, Mar 12, 2012

lol101 wrote:

If that's the way it works then fine.

Hopefully they'll get the word out to all retailers for them to join their customers and tell them about that offer.

Until then, back to shooting.

Knowing you, that would be shooting the messengers. Did today's announcement make you lol? I hope so. Then fewer messengers would need to wear flak jackets. They cost as much as an X10.

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Sergey Borachev
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Re: Here is the announcement by Fujifilm regarding ORBS
In reply to fava, Mar 12, 2012

Red faces for all those review sites that published full reviews but did not mention anything about these orbs!

Did they test properly or did they consider them not worth mentioning for some reason? Either way, their credibility as reviewers are in question. You know who they are!

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Silent Oracle
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Re: Just got off the phone with my local Fuji repair center (NJ, USA)
In reply to Enir4, Mar 12, 2012

Enir4 wrote:

Silent Oracle wrote:

Enir4 wrote:

patchotoole wrote:

Or not. The new sensor won't have orbs, but may not have the same IQ either. I'll wait and see what others will have to say about the new sensor. Meanwhile I'll keep mine, the same one I'm very happy with.

Enrique

I'm glad to hear you're happy with your X10 but bloody hell, get it fixed.

Given my kind of photography, I don't get orbs, so "If ain't broke, don't fix it". At this moment no one can know if the IQ of the new sensor will be as good, orbs aside. I'll wait...

Enrique, at some point you may decide to sell it - and Fuji may have a window for repairs. Just something to think about.

You have a point, I thought about this. But I see my cameras in the first place as something I use, and I do fear that the new sensor may not be as good, that Fuji will have to make compromises in order to get rid of orbs. Then it is possible that my X10 will have a lower resale value, but I would enjoy it better, which is precisely why I bought it (I already knew then about the orbs problem).

Enrique, I do understand your concern.

Now that I've got to thinking about things....I wonder what would happen if someone didn't get their x10 repaired - then at a later date, they sold it. I guess the purchaser would have to pay Fuji to get the repairs done. That would seem logical.

I also wonder if Fuji will charge customers for the repairs in late May. They didn't say they would be free of charge; let's hope they are.

Now it seems there are more questions than answers.

I would say that I would be leery about purchasing an x10 off of Ebay, Amazon or anywhere else that was used because it may not have received the fix.
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Silent Oracle
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Re: Here is the announcement by Fujifilm regarding ORBS
In reply to Sergey Borachev, Mar 12, 2012

Sergey Borachev wrote:

Red faces for all those review sites that published full reviews but did not mention anything about these orbs!

Did they test properly or did they consider them not worth mentioning for some reason? Either way, their credibility as reviewers are in question. You know who they are!

Exactly.
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Billx08
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Re: Wouldn't it be funny
In reply to WolfyWho, Mar 12, 2012

WolfyWho wrote:

Midwest wrote:

And half of the 150 menu options went away along with the EXR sensor.

LOL! That might not be so bad.

And 12mp high res. mode would be redundant and would finally produce an honest 12mp's worth of resolution, meaning the S100fs would no longer be Fuji's BridgeCam resolution champ!

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trevor white
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Re: Here is the announcement by Fujifilm regarding ORBS
In reply to raiden78, Mar 12, 2012

raiden78 wrote:

Vic Chapman wrote:

If and when Fuji begin shipping the X10 fitted with the new sensor and it is found to have fixed the problem, I will buy one.
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+ 1

+ another.

If a new sensor does provide a real fix and does not adversely affect the X10 in any other way, I'm sure a lot of noughts can be added to the above 1.

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Billx08
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No official links on this side of the planet, yet.
In reply to Red Bicycle, Mar 13, 2012

Red Bicycle wrote:

Sorry I meant an official link on a fuji website. I wanted to have that info when I contacted my service department in case there was any confusion but in the end the process was smooth and my camera is registered with them for a new sensor in May.

Check with your local Fuji website. FujifilmUSA has nothing new as far as press released go, where the most recent ones are all four days old. One of those, you'll no doube be thrilled to hear is a new Limited Edition X100. Can a $1,000 Limited Edition X10 be far behind?

The FUJIFILM X100 Black Premium Edition ($1,699.95 MSRP) is a limited release all black version of the high-end compact FUJIFILM X100 digital camera that is currently available. The X100 Black Premium Edition will come with a genuine leather case, a lens hood, an adapter ring and a protective filter; and will also include a Limited Edition numbered card for product authentication.

http://www.fujifilmusa.com/press/news/display_news?newsID=880270

http://www.fujifilmusa.com/press/news/search/search_results?pageNb=0&mode=_submitSearchForm&year=2012

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WolfyWho
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Re: Just got off the phone with my local Fuji repair center (NJ, USA)
In reply to Silent Oracle, Mar 13, 2012

Silent Oracle wrote:

I would say that I would be leery about purchasing an x10 off of Ebay, Amazon or anywhere else that was used because it may not have received the fix.

Might be a good idea to keep any/all documentation indicating that the fix was done. Then you can present it to the buyer at time of resale.

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Wellington100
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Agree. Amateur Photographer magazine in the UK sucks
In reply to Sergey Borachev, Mar 13, 2012

They made the the X10 one of their products of the year just 3 weeks ago, when the orbs were already well known by the rest of the world and followed it up with a groveling review of the XS1, no mention of orbs anywhere.

What a useless bunch they have turned into. After reading it for 30 years now, I will not be buying it anymore.

Sergey Borachev wrote:

Red faces for all those review sites that published full reviews but did not mention anything about these orbs!

Did they test properly or did they consider them not worth mentioning for some reason? Either way, their credibility as reviewers are in question. You know who they are!

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GaryJP
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Re: Just got off the phone with my local Fuji repair center (NJ, USA)
In reply to Silent Oracle, Mar 13, 2012

Fuji may do what Canon did with the 1DMkIII and mark, or provide a certificate of a fix, with fixed ones.

That will make it harder to sell unfixed ones, at least to wary buyers.

Silent Oracle wrote:

Enir4 wrote:

Silent Oracle wrote:

Enir4 wrote:

patchotoole wrote:

Or not. The new sensor won't have orbs, but may not have the same IQ either. I'll wait and see what others will have to say about the new sensor. Meanwhile I'll keep mine, the same one I'm very happy with.

Enrique

I'm glad to hear you're happy with your X10 but bloody hell, get it fixed.

Given my kind of photography, I don't get orbs, so "If ain't broke, don't fix it". At this moment no one can know if the IQ of the new sensor will be as good, orbs aside. I'll wait...

Enrique, at some point you may decide to sell it - and Fuji may have a window for repairs. Just something to think about.

You have a point, I thought about this. But I see my cameras in the first place as something I use, and I do fear that the new sensor may not be as good, that Fuji will have to make compromises in order to get rid of orbs. Then it is possible that my X10 will have a lower resale value, but I would enjoy it better, which is precisely why I bought it (I already knew then about the orbs problem).

Enrique, I do understand your concern.

Now that I've got to thinking about things....I wonder what would happen if someone didn't get their x10 repaired - then at a later date, they sold it. I guess the purchaser would have to pay Fuji to get the repairs done. That would seem logical.

I also wonder if Fuji will charge customers for the repairs in late May. They didn't say they would be free of charge; let's hope they are.

Now it seems there are more questions than answers.

I would say that I would be leery about purchasing an x10 off of Ebay, Amazon or anywhere else that was used because it may not have received the fix.
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Luego
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Re: Let's face the facts!
In reply to Timur Born, Mar 13, 2012

Timur Born wrote:

For me the interesting question is: I was asked by Fuji to send in my X10 in order to get other issues fixed (overexposure when using AUTO DR). Do I go through this ordeal twice or do I wait?

Even more complicated, once you make use of a vendor's warranty service your original dealer's warranty is not covered any more. So the better option is to return the camera to the dealer, have him send it in and wait even longer.

Given that I feel like I have outgrown the X10 already I might just ask the dealer for a good offer on turning it in for another camera.

Timur, what makes you confident that current known issues will be all there is? Considering the quirks that were discovered in the past three months, I think we are hardly scratching the surface when it comes to outstanding issues. Any (EC's) "Engineering Changes" in hardware or software bound to introduce further issues down the line.

Let's face it, the X10 was released before the completion of beta testing and we now see the results. Any new major EC's (sensor replacement with some software tweaks) require an other beta test. And we all know who are the beta testers!

Unless Fuji decides to use a sensor from well known and tested design (F550 EXR), the X10 is doomed. However, some users are "in love" with this camera and will accept the old "blooming" sensor.

Anyway, you are already considering alternatives, perhaps we can all help each other to find a replacement that will suit our needs.

A couple of cams that would be of interest for me: Panny LX5 and Oly XZ-1

Good luck!

Luego

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locke_fc
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Re: Here is the announcement by Fujifilm regarding ORBS
In reply to trevor white, Mar 13, 2012

trevor white wrote:

raiden78 wrote:

Vic Chapman wrote:

If and when Fuji begin shipping the X10 fitted with the new sensor and it is found to have fixed the problem, I will buy one.
--
When all else fails - read the instructions.

+ 1

+ another.

If a new sensor does provide a real fix and does not adversely affect the X10 in any other way, I'm sure a lot of noughts can be added to the above 1.

Definitely, count me in too.
--
Fer

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VLampa
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Re: Here is the announcement by Fujifilm regarding ORBS
In reply to David Clarke29, Mar 13, 2012

David Clarke29 wrote:

What are the attackers going to do now? Free councilling maybe (National Health if you live in the UK) or go to the various other forums to perform their black arts.

Nothing. Send in their cameras for fixing (if they still have it). You should be thankful that they raised the issue that review sites didn't and now you get a free fix. Now apologize to them and go to your room.

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