60D upgrade to 5D Mark 2, worth or not?

Started Mar 11, 2012 | Discussions
adrianfongwl
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60D upgrade to 5D Mark 2, worth or not?
Mar 11, 2012

I am currently using the 60D with several of lenses:-

17-40 f4L
24-105 f4L
50mm f1.4
35mm f2

So basically I have the full packages of lens for a FF camera body..

These days, after the announcement of 5D mark 3 there is quite a lot of good conditions 2nd hand camera for 5D mark 2 in the market and I am so tempted to change it but however my concern is:-

5D Mark 2 is a camera released in 2008 while my 60D is a newer model, just curious what sort of things I will lost if I change from 60D to 5D mark 2?

The only thing on the lost side I know so far is the fps is less than 60D. On the gain side, I know that the picture quality could be better (esp. on high ISO) but just curious is the different that large? Apart from that I know that I would gain the FF images as well.

Please kindly provide advises.

Thanks a lot!

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adrianfongwl
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Re: 60D upgrade to 5D Mark 2, worth or not?
In reply to adrianfongwl, Mar 11, 2012

A bit of add on is that so far I am quite satisfy with my 60D and the reason I consider to upgrade is because:-

1) FF camera body which means my 24-105mm lens would be wide enough for my situation as I don't need that very wide angle. Ie. I don't carry my 17-40 most of the time or I can even sell it.

2) Heard that the ISO is a lot better than my 60D, not sure if it is true.

If possible, please comment a bit on the focusing speed and accuracy compare to 60D too as most of my time would be taking photos for my 6 months old son at home, which means low light and a moving object. Not sure the AI Servo on 5D Mark 2 is as good as 60D or not.

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ultimitsu
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Re: 60D upgrade to 5D Mark 2, worth or not?
In reply to adrianfongwl, Mar 11, 2012

adrianfongwl wrote:

If possible, please comment a bit on the focusing speed and accuracy compare to 60D too as most of my time would be taking photos for my 6 months old son at home, which means low light and a moving object. Not sure the AI Servo on 5D Mark 2 is as good as 60D or not.

60D has uses a somewhat different AF algorithm to older canon SLRs, it's focus is slightly slower (0.11s compared to 50D), but it appears to have less focus errors.

but on the other hand 60D doesnt have MFA, so if there was an issue with the lens, ou cant adjust it with 60D, but you can with 5D2.

I think right now is the perfect time to buy a second hand 5d2, because all early adoptors of 5d3 and D800 are all selling their 5d2 at the same time and canon has just reduced price to clear stock. More supply means lower price.

After this wave is finished, and 5d3 starts to get mediocre reviews - based on what i have seen in the 1d/5d forum, is likely to be the case, a fair number of those who were going to sell their 5d2 for 5d3 but waited for proper good review will probably choose to keep their 5d2. leading to recovery of second hand 5d2's price....that is until 5d3 owners start dumping 5d3 for d800, then 5d2's price will take another hit.

Some people double if 5d2 is going to be discontinued, I think it will, neither canon or nikon has a track record of keeping old model going after launch of new model. D700 and D3s are already gone on the other side.

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Rakumi
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Re: 60D upgrade to 5D Mark 2, worth or not?
In reply to ultimitsu, Mar 11, 2012

5dii is truly an amazing camera, but do you need it is a totally different story. I hear it is one stop better than the 60d (i could be wrong) and you have ff benefits. But do you need all that is a totally different question.
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Brian Wadie
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Re: 60D upgrade to 5D Mark 2, worth or not?
In reply to adrianfongwl, Mar 11, 2012

I have both bodies and wouldn't suggest that you get the 5D mk2 just on the basis of IQ (it is better but I'm not sure its worth the extra money just for that)

BUT

looking at your lens collection I get the impression you probably work mainly with landscapes / portraits? If so, the 5D would show you a real benefit there

Maybe worth analysing what you currently find you can't do as well as you would like, then see if the 5D mk2 will meet those needs?

(If you can afford it, get the 5Dmk2 as an additional body , if not and you want to go wider, consider getting the sigma 8-16 to add to your lens collection - that's wide )

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adrianfongwl
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Re: 60D upgrade to 5D Mark 2, worth or not?
In reply to Brian Wadie, Mar 11, 2012

Thanks for the advises! I actually do 80% of time on portraits and 20% for landscape. For portrait I do mostly on my 6 months old baby so not quite sure if it worth to upgrade. May I know how does it benefits from a 5D2 apart from the wider on lens? Personally, wide angle is not that demanding for myself in most cases...

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adrianfongwl
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Re: 60D upgrade to 5D Mark 2, worth or not?
In reply to Rakumi, Mar 11, 2012

May I know what is the meaning by 1 stop better than 60D? Please kindly describe if possible! Many thanks!!

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Jim Flavin
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Re: 60D upgrade to 5D Mark 2, worth or not?
In reply to adrianfongwl, Mar 11, 2012

If you do mainly portraits and landscpes - then IMO the upgrade to 5D2 is worth while . Could you possible retain the 60d body ? . Also the Sigma 8-16 is a fine lens - but is for APS bodies only as far as I know .The one stop duiffrernce means you can shoot at eg 800 iso instead of having to use 1600 iso on 60d - just as an exmple - but again depnds on size you print to . Some who are good at PP say one has to print very large to notice a differnce . Personally I think the 5D2 delivers a beter image file anyway. maybe your next step then would be - for portarist the 70-200 f4??.
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adrianfongwl
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Re: 60D upgrade to 5D Mark 2, worth or not?
In reply to Jim Flavin, Mar 11, 2012

Thanks Jim for your detailed explanations! So may I know is it typical for a FF camera body to have one stop faster (ie. using lower ISO to obtain the same brightness of pic.)? So can I assume 7D would do the same as my 60D in terms of ISO?

You are right, my next target would be a 70-200 f4 IS but probably won't buying it until my son growing up later and then I need that lens to catch him in outdoor.

I can keep my 60D but just that I don't want to invest too much on camera at this stage and that's why I just want to keep one body.

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tocar
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Re: 60D upgrade to 5D Mark 2, worth or not?
In reply to adrianfongwl, Mar 11, 2012

I actually have both cameras. I bought the 60D to replace my XSi and was longing for a FF camera. The 5DII camera reminds be of the days when I used film. The big difference for me is the 5DII has a shallower depth of field which gives great bokeh while the 60D struggles to achieve the same image. The bigger viewfinder is more accomodating on a FF camera. I'm using the 5DII more and more now but use the 60D sometimes to remember the controls. I would say the upgrade is worth it.

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Jim Flavin
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Re: 60D upgrade to 5D Mark 2, worth or not?
In reply to tocar, Mar 11, 2012

60D sensor is similar / same as 7d - so no great differnce in iso performance . Advatge of 7D is its focusing system and 8fps for sports / wildlife etc . I use the 60d for sports / wildlife and it is ok . It is a good allround camera - and has the flip out screen - which unfortunately the 5d2 or 3 either I think doesnt / wont have .
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Y0GI
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Re: 60D upgrade to 5D Mark 2, worth or not?
In reply to Jim Flavin, Mar 11, 2012

Jim Flavin wrote:

...... The one stop duiffrernce means you can shoot at eg 800 iso instead of having to use 1600 iso on 60d - just as an exmple - but again depnds on size you print to . Some who are good at PP say one has to print very large to notice a differnce . Personally I think the 5D2 delivers a beter image file anyway. maybe your next step then would be - for portarist the 70-200 f4??.
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jim flavin

The explanation of the "one stop difference" given above is backward from my understanding. I am under the impression that the 5DII will have cleaner high ISO, so that if you were previously limited by the noise level at ISO 800 with the 60D, that you could shoot the 5DII at 1600 ISO and get the same or similar noise level in your shots.

Do I have this right?
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Andilion
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Re: 60D upgrade to 5D Mark 2, worth or not?
In reply to Y0GI, Mar 11, 2012

I myself have a 60D. The 7D has the same 18MP image sensor but has more processing power at it's disposal (Dual Digic 4 processors, 60D has single Digic 4 processor). The 7D also has more AF points than the 60D (19 AF points on 7D as opposed to 9 AF points on the 60D)

The 5D2 being full frame works better in low light because of the pixel density of its photons (i.e 18MP APS-C being the 60D vs 21.1MP 5D2.) There are of course more pixels captured on the 5D2 because of the FF nature of the device, but the actual photons on the 5D2 sensor are larger and hence are more easily capable of capturing the available light hence less need to bump up the ISO.

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OlavM
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Re: Upgrade to 5D Mark 2 : -YES if not action-grabber
In reply to adrianfongwl, Mar 12, 2012

I recommend the 5DMkII, based on the following knowledge:
A buddy of mine use a 5D Mk II and the same lenses, except the 50mm f1.4.

He's a kind of 'natural', allergic to 'M' mode, but over the years, I've managed to teach him some 'tech-stuff', I've seen him using both A and S mode lately....
Back to subject....

These 3 lenses will ALL give excellent to very good results mounted on the Mk II, esp. the 17-40L ! -My friends copy of the 17-40L is a really good one, I think.

Some 2,5 years ago, he almost traded it in for a 70-200 2.8. I convinced him NOT to ! And now, he has this wonderful, great archive of TOKYO photos of all kinds, some fantastic 'city scapes' and 'street photographs' , almost ALL shot with the 17-40L ! (ok then, I take just a tiny little credit...)

Lots of discussions on this forum, about the results from the 17-40L, mounted on a 1,6 crop-factor cam (search).

BUT: Most users of the 17-40L, on the 5D / the 5D Mk II, tell a different story: This combo is superb, also quality-wise....!

Most of my friends '17-40L pics' are super-sharp (even at f=5,6 ,center,=pixel-peeped), 'ghosting and flaring' when directed into the sun is NO problem, taking a little care. Some vignetting at 4.0 and 5.6 . Easily fixed as needed in PP (enormous dynamic range in RAW files from the 5D Mk II)

Distortion: Corrects very fine, automatically with software, because: The higher the resolution = the better results from lens-distortion correction, because of more data to 'play with'. I think: Unneeded most of the time, for 'every day photography'.

The 35 2.0: (well, maybe some people don't know of this 'gemstone'): Can get very shallow depth-of-field if wanted, really nice bokeh, great sharpness, already when stopped down to f=2.8 . (I've tested it on a 40D, very good, on a 5D / MkII : Better !)

The 24-106 is THE perfect walk-around lens for the 5D Mk II ......

I'm saving up for this kind of gear, just now.....

Is the 5D Mk III THAT much better ? -Maybe so, but the Mk II is a truly superb cam ! (maybe not the autofocus, for birding, no...)

If you don't need the extreme speed, 100% weather-sealing, the 5D Mk II is MORE than good enough !

It is possible to make high quality LARGE prints from ISO 3200 files (properly exposed). A high percentage of pro. wedding photographers do most of their work, with exactly the same gear you are questioning the quality of .....

Conclusion: Go for the 5D Mk II.

-If a used one, get the total shutter actuations confirmed (design life= well over 100.000 frames). Replacement mounts to a few 100 $'s (the whole unit: shutter/mirror, & the cam serviced), then the 5D MkII is almost as good as new, and ready for another 100.000 exposures ++ ....(my plan disclosed....

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pcb62
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Re: 60D upgrade to 5D Mark 2, worth or not?
In reply to adrianfongwl, Mar 12, 2012

Keep the 60D and get the 5D Mark II as a second body, if you can afford it.

I'm not going to list all of the features of these cameras, but here are some things the 5D Mark II can't do.

  1. Articulating screen - Great for low, high or awkward angles. Also nice for video

  2. Pop-up flash - Not the best, but can be used in a pinch. Also, has the ability to act as master and control other external flashes.

  3. In camera RAW processing. I don't use this a lot, but I do use it occasionally and find it useful.

  4. 60% more reach for your lenses. The 100-400mm L, is effectively a 160-640mm L on the 60D. Also, I believe that 1 to 1 macro lenses, become 1 to 1.6 macro lenses, or something like that.

  5. Ability to use EF-S lenses - The 17-55mm f2.8 IS is very nice. A full frame equivalent doesn't currently exist.

  6. Ability to set max ISO auto value to any level from 400 to 6400

  7. Red-Eye reduction - I don't really use this, but it's there.

  8. Ability to set the aspect ratio for your pictures in camera to 3:2, 4:3, 16:9 and 1:1.

  9. Additional presets on the mode dial No Flash, Portrait, Landscape, Close-Up, Sports and Night. Again, I don't really use these, but they are there.

  10. Dedicated video button

  11. 5.3 fps vs 3.9 in continuous high-speed mode.

  12. Less shutter lag (59ms vs 73ms). As small as it sounds, this can make a difference, when capturing action.

  13. 100ms view finder blackout vs 145ms. Again, can effect your ability to capture action.

  14. SDHC vs Compact Flash. In my opinion cheaper and more convenient, but not as fast or reliable.

There may be others, but this is what I was able to come up with.

The 5D Mark II is better in low light, better image quality, shallower depth of field, micro focus adjustment, three custom functions on the mode dial and more.

The both use the LP-E6 battery. Yea, you can interchange them, if you have both cameras:)

I have both and plan to keep both. They excel at different things and in my opinion compliment each other. Plus, it's nice to have a backup.

On more than one occasion, I've taken both. It's nice not having to changes lenses in the field, where they could be dropped or become contaminated.

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Rakumi
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Re: 60D upgrade to 5D Mark 2, worth or not?
In reply to adrianfongwl, Mar 12, 2012

It means the iso 3200 of the 5dii looks as noise free as iso 1600 on the 60d. And so forth and so on. So where say in your opinion you might say 6400 is only for emergencies with the 60d and 3200 is your normal max you are ok with, 5dii will have 12,800 as your emergency range and 6400 as your regular top as far as noise goes meaning you get better noise free low light shots

adrianfongwl wrote:

May I know what is the meaning by 1 stop better than 60D? Please kindly describe if possible! Many thanks!!

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schmegg
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Re: 60D upgrade to 5D Mark 2, worth or not?
In reply to pcb62, Mar 12, 2012

pcb62 wrote:

Also, I believe that 1 to 1 macro lenses, become 1 to 1.6 macro lenses, or something like that.

Nope - scrub that one. That's not the case.

1:1 macros are still 1:1 - regardless of sensor size.

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pcb62
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Re: 60D upgrade to 5D Mark 2, worth or not?
In reply to schmegg, Mar 12, 2012

The image is still 1:1, but the effective magnification is 1:1.6, due to the pixel density of the APS-C sensor or so I believe.

For example: Let's say that you photograph something that just happens to be 22.2mm x 14.8mm. This would be the exact same size as the 60D's sensor and would in theory cover it completely and therefore would cover 100% of the frame. The same image would only cover 38% of the 5D Mark II's sensor.

60D sensor 329mm sq.
5D Mk II sensor 864mm sq.

schmegg wrote:

pcb62 wrote:

Also, I believe that 1 to 1 macro lenses, become 1 to 1.6 macro lenses, or something like that.

Nope - scrub that one. That's not the case.

1:1 macros are still 1:1 - regardless of sensor size.

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schmegg
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Re: 60D upgrade to 5D Mark 2, worth or not?
In reply to pcb62, Mar 12, 2012

pcb62 wrote:

The image is still 1:1, but the effective magnification is 1:1.6, due to the pixel density of the APS-C sensor or so I believe.

For example: Let's say that you photograph something that just happens to be 22.2mm x 14.8mm. This would be the exact same size as the 60D's sensor and would in theory cover it completely and therefore would cover 100% of the frame. The same image would only cover 38% of the 5D Mark II's sensor.

60D sensor 329mm sq.
5D Mk II sensor 864mm sq.

I know what you are driving at.

Thing is, a 1:1 macro lens is such because it reproduces the subject at 1:1 magnification.

Now, remember that a crop sensor image is simply a cropped version of the same image on a full-frame sensor.

So, if the subject is reproduced on a full frame sensor at a 1:1 ratio - the same goes for the crop sensor.

In other words ...

If a 5mm subject covers 5mm on a full frame sensor (1:1 reproduction ratio), it will also cover 5mm on a crop sensor (1:1 reproduction ratio).

That is what is meant by a 1:1 macro lens - and it is true to say that the magnification is the same regardless of sensor size .

Does that make sense to you? I'm not sure I described it sufficiently. Let me know if it's still unclear.

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pcb62
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Re: 60D upgrade to 5D Mark 2, worth or not?
In reply to schmegg, Mar 12, 2012

Yes, it makes sense and I agree, but the effective magnification is still 1:1.6. Just like a 100mm lens is always a 100mm lens, but it acts like a 160mm lens on an APS-C camera.

If you crop the 5D Mk II's image to cover the same area as the 60D's image, you end up with something like a 7 to 8 megapixel image, where the 60D's image would still be 18 megapixels.

schmegg wrote:

pcb62 wrote:

The image is still 1:1, but the effective magnification is 1:1.6, due to the pixel density of the APS-C sensor or so I believe.

For example: Let's say that you photograph something that just happens to be 22.2mm x 14.8mm. This would be the exact same size as the 60D's sensor and would in theory cover it completely and therefore would cover 100% of the frame. The same image would only cover 38% of the 5D Mark II's sensor.

60D sensor 329mm sq.
5D Mk II sensor 864mm sq.

I know what you are driving at.

Thing is, a 1:1 macro lens is such because it reproduces the subject at 1:1 magnification.

Now, remember that a crop sensor image is simply a cropped version of the same image on a full-frame sensor.

So, if the subject is reproduced on a full frame sensor at a 1:1 ratio - the same goes for the crop sensor.

In other words ...

If a 5mm subject covers 5mm on a full frame sensor (1:1 reproduction ratio), it will also cover 5mm on a crop sensor (1:1 reproduction ratio).

That is what is meant by a 1:1 macro lens - and it is true to say that the magnification is the same regardless of sensor size .

Does that make sense to you? I'm not sure I described it sufficiently. Let me know if it's still unclear.

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