D800E vs D700 RAW High ISO files

Started Mar 10, 2012 | Discussions
slav1973
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D800E vs D700 RAW High ISO files
Mar 10, 2012
Nikon D700 Nikon D800E
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Robin Casady
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Re: D800E vs D700 RAW High ISO files
In reply to slav1973, Mar 10, 2012

How about telling us something about them so we can decide whether they would be of interest?
What IOS settings?
What is the subject matter?
What lens was used?
What exposures?

slav1973 wrote:

A couple of RAW files to download:

http://www.haratym.com/D800Ep1a.zip
http://www.haratym.com/D800Ep1b.zip
http://www.haratym.com/D800Ep2a.zip
http://www.haratym.com/D800Ep2b.zip
http://www.haratym.com/D700.zip

Bonus - D800E at ISO 200
http://www.haratym.com/D800Elow.zip

Regards
Slav

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Horshack
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ISO 12,800 comparison
In reply to slav1973, Mar 10, 2012

Thanks for posting these, nice set. I've only gotten through one pair so far.

  • D800E vs D700 ISO 12,800

  • Both are 50mm @ f/2.8 1/1600

  • Exposures are very close

  • ACR RC all defaults except WB match on both to 3300+2. No luminance NR, +25 chrominance NR

100% crop at orig pixel sizes (D800E on left, D700 on right)

100% crop with D800E image resized to 12MP (D800E on left, D700 on right)

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Horshack
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Full-image for scale comparison
In reply to Horshack, Mar 10, 2012

Here's the full view of those images @ 12MP so that you can see what the 100% crop represented

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rhlpetrus
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Re: ISO 12,800 comparison
In reply to Horshack, Mar 10, 2012

Resized, the D800's image shows a little less noise but detail is much better preserved, check shirt pattern.
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ovrebekk
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Thank you!
In reply to Horshack, Mar 10, 2012

The D800 compares very favorably indeed!

Similar noise or less while retaining much more detail. With some careful noise reduction applied you could optimize the D800 shots for much less noise while retaining the same amount of detail as the D700.

I think the notion that using the D800 is a high ISO sacrifice should be put to bed

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khaw
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Re: D800E vs D700 RAW High ISO files
In reply to slav1973, Mar 10, 2012

Many thanks. No problem at all opening the .NEF files in LR4, CS5, and Capture NX2.
Also, I don't see any moiré. That's terrific.

I could live with the ISO 25600 images, just scaled down so that they fit on my 30" screen.

Thanks again, K-H.

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zzapamiga
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Re: Thank you!
In reply to ovrebekk, Mar 10, 2012

ovrebekk wrote:

I think the notion that using the D800 is a high ISO sacrifice should be put to bed

+1

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marike6
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Re: ISO 12,800 comparison
In reply to rhlpetrus, Mar 10, 2012

rhlpetrus wrote:

Resized, the D800's image shows a little less noise but detail is much better preserved, check shirt pattern.

It may be semantics, but looks like the D800 image as seen at 100% shows a good deal less noise if you look at the shirt, the body of the guitar, shadows, etc.

Nice comparison. This is why I sat quietly shaking my head during the initial onslaught of "Not a D700 replacement" threads. Without images you are only making assumptions.

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Gordo1
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Big win for the D800E but at what cost?
In reply to Horshack, Mar 10, 2012

I am thrilled that the D800E appears to present a one stop noise advantage as well as higher pixel-level sharpness compared to the D700, but man, you've really got to print big to get something out of this advantage. This is clearly for pros who print at big sizes.

For me, well I can't see any difference between them reduced to a size that fills my 24" 1920x1200 display, which is how I look at 99% of my photos and at up to 24x32 prints, I'm quite thrilled with my D700 results. I downloaded a few of those NEF files to check out and when I think about storing, transferring and opening a few hundred of these 70+MB raw monsters versus the 14MB D700 raw files I have now, it's a little bit scary. A tif conversion of one of them came out to over 200MB, and a lowly jpeg at full resolution still came out to 15MB...

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Tim O'Connor
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Love it, Love it, Love it.
In reply to slav1973, Mar 10, 2012

I started with the 800 and 1600 iso images - Im VERY impressed. One thing I like about the 800E is that it will require less sharping, which means less noise. In my experience, adding sharpness makes noise more noticeable.
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James Bligh
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911 is mandatory when processing D800 files.
In reply to Gordo1, Mar 10, 2012

Gordo1 wrote:

I am thrilled that the D800E appears to present a one stop noise advantage as well as higher pixel-level sharpness compared to the D700, but man, you've really got to print big to get something out of this advantage. This is clearly for pros who print at big sizes.

For me, well I can't see any difference between them reduced to a size that fills my 24" 1920x1200 display, which is how I look at 99% of my photos and at up to 24x32 prints, I'm quite thrilled with my D700 results. I downloaded a few of those NEF files to check out and when I think about storing, transferring and opening a few hundred of these 70+MB raw monsters versus the 14MB D700 raw files I have now, it's a little bit scary. A tif conversion of one of them came out to over 200MB, and a lowly jpeg at full resolution still came out to 15MB...

Downloading a dozen D800 files takes aeons. Some people will be choked to death while processing D800 files, or an heartattack. I guess 911 is mandatory when processing D800 files.

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John Motts
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Re: Big win for the D800E but at what cost?
In reply to Gordo1, Mar 10, 2012

Now that there are a few samples floating about, it does seem that Nikon have been understating the abilities of the D800.

They know that they can't make enough to meet demand at first, so they've not been shouting particularly loud about its ISO abilities.

There doesn't seem any doubt that its high ISO abilities are ahead of the D700 so hopefully those who are banging on about it just being a "studio camera" will finally stop complaining!

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lock
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Re: Love it, Love it, Love it too!
In reply to Tim O'Connor, Mar 10, 2012

Yes, you are correct.

There's a balance between luminance noise reduction and sharpening. At some point you start to sharpen up noise that much, that it starts to interfere with the objects you want to see as sharp as possible. You can fumble aroud with one of the subsliders but basically it's a trade out.

Point of critique: these pictures aren't true hi iso (check the shutter speeds). The color noise will be much worse with true low light. There is a set of D4 NEFS taken at a Nikon meeting with similar light situations, but this time with a dancer. Here to the max iso is 12800, although there is an underexposed iso12800 as wel. This one more or less resembles a true iso 25600 if corrected.

I've worked with both series, using ACR/CS5. And honoustly, the D4 is not worth the extra money unless you need to go into very high iso and you are desparate for fps. Period. Actually, the effect you described not having to shapren that much (which also occurs with the D800 true hi iso NEF pictures btw) helps you to retain the level of detail the D4 simply doesn't have in it.

There's another interesting thing about the D800 pictures. NR in prints small enough to keep some oversampling generally demands even less NR. The effect is a lot bigger on the D800 than on the d4 pictures.For instance, A4 print size the iso 12800 picture of the D4 still needs 30 % on the luminance NR. In the d800E iso 25600 picture LNR was taken back to 20% and the amount of detail coming back was amazing, just stunning.

Btw, you can simulate this effect on your screen (zoom in, do NR, zoom out and alter the NR until you think it's oké). Of course this is simply a resolution advantage of the D800. But is does work !

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lock
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Absolutely.
In reply to John Motts, Mar 10, 2012

This is an amazing machine. It's much more of an improvement than the D4. It's no revolution since the basics are still the same. But it is at least a huge evolution !

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u007
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Re: Love it, Love it, Love it too!
In reply to lock, Mar 10, 2012

lock wrote:

Point of critique: these pictures aren't true hi iso (check the shutter speeds). The color noise will be much worse with true low light. There is a set of D4 NEFS taken at a Nikon meeting with similar light situations, but this time with a dancer. Here to the max iso is 12800, although there is an underexposed iso12800 as wel. This one more or less resembles a true iso 25600 if corrected.

I dunno. I think a base exposure of f8, ISO100 and 6 seconds is pretty low light.

Even at ISO25600 it's 1/50 at f8

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James Bligh
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In such low light why stop down?
In reply to u007, Mar 10, 2012

u007 wrote:

lock wrote:

Point of critique: these pictures aren't true hi iso (check the shutter speeds). The color noise will be much worse with true low light. There is a set of D4 NEFS taken at a Nikon meeting with similar light situations, but this time with a dancer. Here to the max iso is 12800, although there is an underexposed iso12800 as wel. This one more or less resembles a true iso 25600 if corrected.

I dunno. I think a base exposure of f8, ISO100 and 6 seconds is pretty low light.

Even at ISO25600 it's 1/50 at f8

ISO3200 1/100 at f4 or ISO1600 1/200 at f4 may be more appropriate.

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photoway
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Re: D800E vs D700 RAW High ISO files
In reply to slav1973, Mar 10, 2012

Thanks !

Interesting files...

On my side, once the Raw Files processed with Capture NX 2.3 with the same White Balance, and with all "software" Sharpening and Noise reductions set to "OFF".
(meaning we are testing the Sensor, not software )

I still see a slight advantage to the D700 in term of Noise, once the D800E downsampled to 12 MPix, the difference is less noticeable, but I will say the the D700 is still a Hair ahead, with less details of course.

I've compared the ISO 3200 files, and also the ISO 6400 ones

Regards

Richard - http://www.photoway.com/fr/phototheque/

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MAC
MAC
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Re: Love it, Love it, Love it.
In reply to Tim O'Connor, Mar 10, 2012

this is key for me - I use 5dc with weak AA and 100L with LR sharpness slider setting of zero between F5-F6.3

I'm looking at putting a 50mm on a D800e and working in combo

sharpening sliders increase noise for sure

Tim O'Connor wrote:

I started with the 800 and 1600 iso images - Im VERY impressed. One thing I like about the 800E is that it will require less sharping, which means less noise. In my experience, adding sharpness makes noise more noticeable.
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lock
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I do not see that file you are referring to.
In reply to u007, Mar 10, 2012

DSC_4399.nef: Iso 25600, F/2.8, 1/5000s.

That's EV 7.3. Not the low light I would worry about. Are we looking at two different files/sources ?

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