5D3 Secret Ingredient

Started Feb 27, 2012 | Discussions
PhotoKhan
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Err...
In reply to phototips, Feb 27, 2012

...How can a feature already provided by a third party be " a serious industry changing feature that will leave everyone trying to play catch up "?

Because it is inbuilt?...Big deal...

I have been enjoying this for more than 2 1/2 years now, in a setup that continuously amazes me, courtesy of Pocket Wizard's ControlTL.

PK

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Daniel Clune
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if thats all the 5d3 has going for it
In reply to phototips, Feb 27, 2012

If the big thing about new 5d3 is radio trigger then canon had better price this under $2500 or watch a flood of canon users go to Nikon D800. Especially if rumored $3500 is true.
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DotCom Editor
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Well thought out and reasoned; kudos to you
In reply to phototips, Feb 27, 2012

Whether or not this turns out to be correct, you are to be congratulated for postulating based on actual facts in evidence, namely, the patent filings. You've put a whole lot more effort and reasoning into your punditry than 99 44/100 percent of the posters here (me included).

This sure would be nice if true. My Minolta Dimage A1, which I sold many years ago after buying my Canon 20D, used non-infrared wireless control of off-camera flashes. Moving to the Canon flash system felt like a step back in time to something considerably inferior. But, it was still light years (no pun intended) ahead of my medium-format film days when I used a Braun flash with a 510-volt battery haning over my shoulder, or my beloved Honeywell potato-masher Strobonar 770.

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Andre De Angelis
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Neither ground breaking nor even practical
In reply to phototips, Feb 27, 2012

isn't

phototips wrote:

I now have confirmed this. It will be included.

I know that some may say it is not groundbreaking, but to have radio triggering built into the body with no accessory -is- groundbreaking no matter what you say.

No it isn't.

Phase One have had built in Pocket Wizzards for a while so it's not new. Secondly, Profoto, Elinchrom, Broncolor and Bowen all have their own radio triggers, and none are compatible with one another, so it would not be any kind of game changer.

Ground breaking and game changing are features that would intice those using other brands to switch. 5D2 video did that. Built in Radio triggers would not.

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David Hull
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Re: Err...
In reply to PhotoKhan, Feb 27, 2012

PhotoKhan wrote:

...How can a feature already provided by a third party be " a serious industry changing feature that will leave everyone trying to play catch up "?

Because it is inbuilt?...Big deal...

I have been enjoying this for more than 2 1/2 years now, in a setup that continuously amazes me, courtesy of Pocket Wizard's ControlTL.

PK

How's taht working for you? You are using it with Canon, I presume (580EXII maybe)? What typical range do you get?

That thing si supposed to have some EMC issues.

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tko
tko
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boring
In reply to phototips, Feb 28, 2012

Shoot in studio, you can add all the radio controlled toys you want.

Shoot in street, who cares?

Probably the least exciting feature I could thought of. Except maybe a direct print button.

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dominikov
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Re: But the d800....
In reply to Apewithacamera, Feb 28, 2012

Apewithacamera wrote:

D800 will also have a lot of noise issues I expect way above the next generation 5D.

And that's what everyone thought would be the case with the 5Dmk2 vs. the D700 at higher ISO, and they were wrong.

The reality is 21mp images scaled down to 12mp cleaned up nicely.

The D800 is already producing images at higher ISO on par with the D3/D700, so what makes you think a 5Dmk3 will surpass it on ISO given they will have the same size sensor?

The only downside to 36mp is that it's limited to 4fps given the sheer amount of data being processed – Nikon hasn't crippled it. So while a 22mp 5Dmk3/X has the potential to be a lot faster, i.e. 6-7fps, Canon would then be faced with the prospect of a $3000 camera potentially cannibalizing sales of a $7000 camera if the specs are too close.

If history is anything to go by, Canon will cripple AF, ISO, or fps to protect their flagship camera (1DX). They've done it with the last two 5Ds and it's likely they'll continue this trend.

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pso
pso
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Re: Err...
In reply to David Hull, Feb 28, 2012

I too enjoy my PW's...if Canon can outdo them, I'd be pleasantly surprised.

I use mine primarily w/ 430 ex II's which do not have that issue. I use with the 580 II also but am not a big fan of having to stick on the sock...I also have that chunky umbrella add-on which helps reduce the radio issues w/ the 580 II but find that a pain too.

I don't really use mine from thaaat far away.

How's taht working for you? You are using it with Canon, I presume (580EXII maybe)? What typical range do you get?

That thing si supposed to have some EMC issues.

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Seaclam
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The secret ingredient is the price: less is more
In reply to tko, Feb 28, 2012

Canon just may have it's head up it's ass this time around. First, a 24-70 2.8 successor, which practically everybody was hoping for IS for years now, doesn't get it. The "want" factor on this was so high, so talked about, and yet we have a deaf Canon. I mean a really deaf Canon considering how much talk there's been about a version II and with IS. Now a 5D II successor that adds in the AF it was so sorely missing on the second run. AF that could have been there and should have been there. The MP could-a should-a been higher. So far, I'm reading pretty much nothing but disbelief and yawns regarding this camera, a quite frankly like I've never seen before. Being a longtime Canon owner going back to the 10D, for the most part, I would wholeheartingly agree with the general assessment of the 5D3. Unless Canon some sort of special thing going on with this camera's IQ, some "everlasting gobstopper", this camera is one of their worst offerings. It's pretty much a "tell us something we don't already know or what should have been" camera.

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Apewithacamera
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Re: But the d800....
In reply to dominikov, Feb 28, 2012

Well we gotta say something bad about the other brand. These days it seems to be the norm?

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David Hull
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Re: Err...
In reply to pso, Feb 28, 2012

It seems to me that some of the RFI issues (if they are really THAT bad) could be resolved by putting the PW on an extender cord a bit awy from the flash. I was just wondering if it was really an issue.
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Safesphere
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Re: Response from a professional
In reply to LaszloBencze, Feb 28, 2012

They must be mining diamonds to afford these pictures

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KLO82
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Re: 5D3 Secret Ingredient
In reply to phototips, Feb 28, 2012

It will be such a secret, even Canon will not communicate anything about it. And users will not be able to find out anything about it even after using it for a long time

phototips wrote:

The 5D3 will have a secret ingredient that will prove to be a serious industry changing feature that will leave everyone trying to play catch up.

Of course maybe I just being too hopeful. But I don't think so...

For what it is worth, here is my prediction:
http://www.phototips.biz/2012/02/5d3-secret-prediction-spoiler-alert.html

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Mike K
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Re: 590 EX (with RF control) introduced along with 5DII
In reply to Mike K, Feb 28, 2012

Mike K wrote:

The introduction of RF flash in the 5DIII seemed obvious to me 3 days ago, and I mentioned it in the thread on popup flash:

No popup flash, we need built in RF to fire the new 590 EX speedlight

http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/02/new-flash-lenses-cr3/

that the new flash would have RF control meant a new body would also have RF, rather obvious.
Mike K

You guys skipped over this rather obvious tip off. Introduction of a new 590 EX with RF control to be introduced the same day as the 5DIII announcement. DUH!!!
In addition CR states:

"a big USA retailer has the 580EX II listed as EOL (End of life) in their system.
Expect it to be announced with the 5D replacement on February 27/28, 2012"

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Safesphere
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Who needs 36 Mp?
In reply to phototips, Feb 28, 2012

Seriously! What for? Are we here in the compact camera competition for clueless consumers? Although even that has already stopped. Sure, the "wow" of 36 Mp will attract some beginners with deep pockets, but serious photographers will be looking for something that can actually make pictures better instead.

In the concept of the "Image Domain", only image details relevant to the subject of the image are important. Each grain of sand does not need to be resolved in a shot of a sunny beach, because it is irrelevant. It is beyond the capacity of the human sight that is effectively around 16 Mp by resolution, give or take (although with a 150-Mp per eye "hardware").

Anything beyond 15-20 Mp is really only for special purposes, like cropping (buy a telephoto instead) or security where you need to read license plates of all cars on the street, but only when you magnify and crop. So no, D800 is not a threat for Canon to convert too many 5D users to Nikon.

Boring? Well, what has been the biggest disappointment of 5D? Autofocus indeed, as well explained above. So a 61-point autofocus, if it actually works well, would be the most exciting and welcome upgrade. Surely it would come with better metering too, which was the #2 complaint.

Not everyone upgrades every time a model is refreshed. There is just not enough justification to jump from 20D to 30D to 40D... etc. a lot of people skip a step upgrading every other time. 5D Mark II has the effective resolution of 17-18 Mp compared to 12-13 Mp of 5D, because the sharpness per pixel was not as high. Is there a practical difference in pictures between 5D and 5D Mark II just because of better resolution? Not on paper, unless you crop or magnify it on a computer screen. So many skipped Mark II for lack of return on investment and now are very excited to jump to Mark III.

With better autofocus, metering, and speed already rumored, my biggest wish would be improving sharpness per pixel to match the original 5D and actually have 22 Mp on a 22-Mp sensor instead of 17-18 like in Mark II. And doing it with no more noise at LOW (as opposed to high) ISO so that the dark blue evening sky is silky smooth like on the original 5D.

And yes, a better standard zoom please! 24-105 was the biggest disappointment with no microcontrast or vibrant color in its flat lifeless pictures.

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Seaclam
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Re: Who needs 36 Mp?
In reply to Safesphere, Feb 28, 2012

Actually more MP's generally equal better large prints. Going from 12(5D)-21(5D2) allowed me to print that much bigger without having to uprez as much or not at all. The micro detail from tha 21mp image is stunning, but again only to a point. As one prints larger and larger, those extra MP's come in awfully handy. At some point for me and given where the supossed stagnated MP count is on the upcoming supossed 5D3, that point of moving to digital medium format may be close than I think. So give us more resloution.............

Safesphere wrote:

Seriously! What for? Are we here in the compact camera competition for clueless consumers? Although even that has already stopped. Sure, the "wow" of 36 Mp will attract some beginners with deep pockets, but serious photographers will be looking for something that can actually make pictures better instead.

In the concept of the "Image Domain", only image details relevant to the subject of the image are important. Each grain of sand does not need to be resolved in a shot of a sunny beach, because it is irrelevant. It is beyond the capacity of the human sight that is effectively around 16 Mp by resolution, give or take (although with a 150-Mp per eye "hardware").

Anything beyond 15-20 Mp is really only for special purposes, like cropping (buy a telephoto instead) or security where you need to read license plates of all cars on the street, but only when you magnify and crop. So no, D800 is not a threat for Canon to convert too many 5D users to Nikon.

Boring? Well, what has been the biggest disappointment of 5D? Autofocus indeed, as well explained above. So a 61-point autofocus, if it actually works well, would be the most exciting and welcome upgrade. Surely it would come with better metering too, which was the #2 complaint.

Not everyone upgrades every time a model is refreshed. There is just not enough justification to jump from 20D to 30D to 40D... etc. a lot of people skip a step upgrading every other time. 5D Mark II has the effective resolution of 17-18 Mp compared to 12-13 Mp of 5D, because the sharpness per pixel was not as high. Is there a practical difference in pictures between 5D and 5D Mark II just because of better resolution? Not on paper, unless you crop or magnify it on a computer screen. So many skipped Mark II for lack of return on investment and now are very excited to jump to Mark III.

With better autofocus, metering, and speed already rumored, my biggest wish would be improving sharpness per pixel to match the original 5D and actually have 22 Mp on a 22-Mp sensor instead of 17-18 like in Mark II. And doing it with no more noise at LOW (as opposed to high) ISO so that the dark blue evening sky is silky smooth like on the original 5D.

And yes, a better standard zoom please! 24-105 was the biggest disappointment with no microcontrast or vibrant color in its flat lifeless pictures.

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Safesphere
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Re: Who needs 36 Mp?
In reply to Seaclam, Feb 28, 2012

How large are your prints and where are they displayed? I'd like to see your posters. More Mp always comes with a tradeoff. The original 5D had the largest pixel size and produced images many still consider unrivaled. I agree there should be a high Mp model for special purposes in the lineup, but please let it not be 5D.

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Seaclam
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Re: Who needs 36 Mp?
In reply to Safesphere, Feb 28, 2012

Perhaps Canon will go to some 645/medium format size in the future. Certainly medium format doesn't carry the high iso, but people going to MF are usually into landscape or glamour stuff you see in magazines. Personally for me, the 5D2 well exceeded the 5D in IQ. I've owned the 10D, 1Dmk2, 5D and currently 5D2. The only lens I still own that goes back to the 10D is the 24-70 f/2.8. I have seen what an increase in MP's and going to FF has done for this lens. From what I thought was a good lens on the first two crop bodies to an absolutely fantastic lens on high MP FF, I've seen what can be done. I've seen lots of MP's transform a good lens into some crazy micro-detail hungry monster of a lens that has come into it's own. I think Canon can easily put a few more MP's on FF without sacrificing IQ. If they can't, they'd better hurry up and start putting out new technology to meet that demand.

Safesphere wrote:

How large are your prints and where are they displayed? I'd like to see your posters. More Mp always comes with a tradeoff. The original 5D had the largest pixel size and produced images many still consider unrivaled. I agree there should be a high Mp model for special purposes in the lineup, but please let it not be 5D.

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Paul5D
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Re: Who needs 36 Mp?
In reply to Safesphere, Feb 28, 2012

I will take more MPs everytime for Studio and weddings. I regulary print 40" images and need to crop severley at times to.

I DO use high iso for weddings but this typically represents about 5% or less of my shooting.

I DO use the burts modes (of which 3.9fps is fine) about 0.1% of the time (confetti shots) I don't use burst for gymnastics or football tournaments
I always use the centre focus point for weddings, studio and events
I always use as many pixels as I have at my disposal.

So for me the 5DmkIII offers no reason at all to upgrade

I am 90% sure 2012 will be the year I start to run two systems
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PhotoKhan
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Re: Err...
In reply to David Hull, Feb 28, 2012

David Hull wrote:

How's taht working for you? You are using it with Canon, I presume (580EXII maybe)? What typical range do you get?

That thing si supposed to have some EMC issues.

It's working superbly with 1 MiniTT1, 1 ZoneController, 3 FlexTT5, 1 580EXII and 3 550EX. As I said, I am in a continuous state of awe when using the system.

Of course, this might be different if I lived in the US, since I don't have much patient for design problems like the EMC issues.

Here, in Europe, the operating frequencies are different and, as such, there are no problems what so ever.

I can not tell you the max usable range in "line-of-sight", as I still have to use the system at a distance where that limitation becomes evident. At my typical use distances of 2 to 20 meters there are no problems.

The true power of the Control TL system, however, is the way it adjust flash trigger and synch signals during the triggering cycle (individually adjustable for each camera model) in order to allow for higher synch shutter speeds before HSS has to engage.

My camera's max synch speed is 1/300 and the Control TL allows for up to 1/640, before HSS engages (This intermediate operating mode made possible by juggling of the synch signals is called "HyperSync" by PW).

Also, when HSS finally engages, it does so in a much more efficient way (...again, by their own electronic recipe...), allowing for less power usage with increased illumination ranges.

I doubt that Canon will improve this way over their own system and, even if they do, the provided information will probably be scarce in their continued tradition, not allowing for photographers to make an effective use of the system (...or to come here to post about how Canon Speedlite system "sucks" )

PK

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