How likely will there be a FF NEX?

Started Feb 22, 2012 | Discussions
Anastigmat
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How likely will there be a FF NEX?
Feb 22, 2012

NEX-9 with the new sensor in the Nikon D800?

Nikon D800
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CameraBuff
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Re: How likely will there be a FF NEX?
In reply to Anastigmat, Feb 22, 2012

Obviously, no one knows for sure but when Sony launched the NEX series, there was some discussion about whether the NEX E-mount can support full frame lenses. DPReview also discussed it at the time (can't find the link right now).

Personally, I think it is likely in the next 2 years. A full-frame DSLR is expensive to make because a full-frame sensor costs significantly more and the prism viewfinders are also bigger and more expensive. Mirrorless cameras on the other hand, have far fewer parts and Sony can distribute the cost of the EVF across the DSLR and NEX lineup. Considering the fact that there is a significant demand for a full-frame mirrorless camera, they can sell it with a high profit margin.

If we see anything like an NEX-9, it would probably come after the A99 DSLR or hopefully, at the same time.

A far bigger challenge for Sony will be to have a good lineup of lenses for both APS-C and full-frame sensors. Unlike cameras, lens designs take a long time to go in to production.

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tbcass
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2 chances zero and none!!!
In reply to Anastigmat, Feb 22, 2012

Anastigmat wrote:

NEX-9 with the new sensor in the Nikon D800?

I think that since the object of the NEX series is to make as compact a camera as possible in my opinion there is almost no chance that a Full Frame NEX will ever be built.

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ET2
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Re: 2 chances zero and none!!!
In reply to tbcass, Feb 22, 2012

tbcass wrote:

Anastigmat wrote:

NEX-9 with the new sensor in the Nikon D800?

I think that since the object of the NEX series is to make as compact a camera as possible in my opinion there is almost no chance that a Full Frame NEX will ever be built.

That's not the only "object". There are also Nex-VG20 and FS100 (that is $4000 pro camcorder, and bigger than A900), so there is no reason why there can't be Nex full-frame too along with smaller bodied cameras.

Personally. I believe future A-mount DSLRs all with come with removable A-mounts. Once you remove the A-mount, underneath it will be E-mount.

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tbcass
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Re: 2 chances zero and none!!!
In reply to ET2, Feb 22, 2012

ET2 wrote:

That's not the only "object". There are also Nex-VG20 and FS100 (that is $4000 pro camcorder, and bigger than A900), so there is no reason why there can't be Nex full-frame too along with smaller bodied cameras.

Those are video cameras.

Personally. I believe future A-mount DSLRs all with come with removable A-mounts. Once you remove the A-mount, underneath it will be E-mount.

I suppose such a thing is possible if unlikely. I'm sticking to what I said though. There will never be a NEX series still camera with a FF sensor. Want to put money on it?

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Wally626
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Re: 2 chances zero and none!!!
In reply to tbcass, Feb 22, 2012

tbcass wrote:

ET2 wrote:

That's not the only "object". There are also Nex-VG20 and FS100 (that is $4000 pro camcorder, and bigger than A900), so there is no reason why there can't be Nex full-frame too along with smaller bodied cameras.

Those are video cameras.

Personally. I believe future A-mount DSLRs all with come with removable A-mounts. Once you remove the A-mount, underneath it will be E-mount.

I suppose such a thing is possible if unlikely. I'm sticking to what I said though. There will never be a NEX series still camera with a FF sensor. Want to put money on it?

No money bet, possible that Sony will put out a FF in the NEX style with an Alpha lens mount and not call it a NEX. Or they may build a FF body with both E and A mounts, rumors to this effect have circulated, and call it a NEX. Shoot full frame with Alpha FF lenses and crop with E-mount or DT Alpha lenses. Sony does like to build camera bodies so the future may hold some strange things.

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ET2
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Re: 2 chances zero and none!!!
In reply to tbcass, Feb 22, 2012

tbcass wrote:

ET2 wrote:

That's not the only "object". There are also Nex-VG20 and FS100 (that is $4000 pro camcorder, and bigger than A900), so there is no reason why there can't be Nex full-frame too along with smaller bodied cameras.

Those are video cameras.

They are E-mount video cameras. There are no A-mount video cameras, but there are E-mount video cameras. E-mount is far more flexible than the A-mount.

Personally. I believe future A-mount DSLRs all with come with removable A-mounts. Once you remove the A-mount, underneath it will be E-mount.

I suppose such a thing is possible if unlikely.

It's not only possible, but it's certain. Sony will merge A-mount and E-mount into one system, and one way to do is to make A-mount removable (something like LAE2 adapter).

I'm sticking to what I said though. There will never be a NEX series still camera with a FF sensor. Want to put money on it?

Absolutely. I will put my money on the fact that you are wrong.

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WaltKnapp
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Re: 2 chances zero and none!!!
In reply to tbcass, Feb 22, 2012

tbcass wrote:

ET2 wrote:

Personally. I believe future A-mount DSLRs all with come with removable A-mounts. Once you remove the A-mount, underneath it will be E-mount.

I suppose such a thing is possible if unlikely. I'm sticking to what I said though. There will never be a NEX series still camera with a FF sensor. Want to put money on it?

Such a mechanical sandwich would be a source of lots of new failure points and misalignment as the system wears. Can't see the upper end folks being too fond of the idea.

I won't say never, and there are certainly plenty who assume it's possible even though statements from Sony when the E mount first came out said it was not designed to clear FF. Of course one can question if they were being truthful. I'd agree, it sounds highly unlikely.

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ET2
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Re: 2 chances zero and none!!!
In reply to WaltKnapp, Feb 22, 2012

WaltKnapp wrote:

I won't say never, and there are certainly plenty who assume it's possible even though statements from Sony when the E mount first came out said it was not designed to clear FF.

The top one is E-mount, the lower (full-frame) M-nount (M9).

Of course one can question if they were being truthful. I'd agree, it sounds highly unlikely.

The more serious problem with the idea is lenses that are all designed for APSC. That's why I said it will come as removable A-mount camera first. If the e-mount (or DT) lenses are mounted, it will switch to APSC mode, same as A900 does today.

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Karl Scharf
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Re: How likely will there be a FF NEX?
In reply to Anastigmat, Feb 22, 2012

Wrong forum for this post, try the Sony NEX Talk forum.
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reflected_light
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Re: How likely will there be a FF NEX?
In reply to Karl Scharf, Feb 23, 2012

I'd bet against it happening as well. The trend in cameras is smaller. We sold a ton of J1's during the holiday season, once the word hit the streets and mom and pop found out about them.

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tom
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Re: 2 chances zero and none!!!
In reply to ET2, Feb 23, 2012

In one of the interviews with Sony camera management, they said that the current e-mount was not suitable for FF. Since their roadmap going out for a few years doesn't show any FF lenses, I don't see the point of a FF NEX that needs an a-mount adapter to take a FF lens (I assume one issue is the very short registration distance.)

tom

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dlkeller
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Why This Forum?
In reply to Anastigmat, Feb 23, 2012

Isn't there a NEX forum for NEX questions???
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Could be
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Re: 2 chances zero and none!!!
In reply to tbcass, Feb 23, 2012

tbcass wrote:

Anastigmat wrote:

NEX-9 with the new sensor in the Nikon D800?

I think that since the object of the NEX series is to make as compact a camera as possible in my opinion there is almost no chance that a Full Frame NEX will ever be built.

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I completely agree with you. Already the APS-C NEx are not as compact because of the bigger sensor. Now to have an FF NEX, I dont know how portable that can be. How about balancing issues, I guess not the easiest way to do it.

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ageha
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Re: How likely will there be a FF NEX?
In reply to Anastigmat, Feb 23, 2012

This will never stop...

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Frenske
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Re: How likely will there be a FF NEX?
In reply to Anastigmat, Feb 23, 2012

I think it is very unlikely for various reasons.

1. Full frame sensors are expensive and can solely be found in high-end cameras used by professionals and enthusiasts who generally want professional bodies.

2. Full frame sensors cameras require larger lenses than lenses specifcally designed for APS-C cameras. Putting a large lens on a NEX is beating the purpose of the NEX (small and portable) and it is also out of balance.

3. Designing a full frame wide angle lens for NEX mouth will proof difficult and fraught with severe vignetting and corner unsharpness and tons of CA.

Perhaps Sony has a FF NEX in the pipe line; Sony wants to make money even if the money comes from fools. Gauging the feelings here there might be market for it..

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Zamac
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Re: How likely will there be a FF NEX?
In reply to Anastigmat, Feb 23, 2012

Anastigmat wrote:

NEX-9 with the new sensor in the Nikon D800?

We guess, nobody outside Sony knows.

Personally I think that the A9 will not be considered a NEX camera even though it is mirrorless. The main reason is designing FF lenses - anything even slightly tele is out with a short flange distange (cf Leica). I think the Sony FF lenses will continue to be A mount, but the A9 may well take both A and E mount lenses - perhaps with a removable adapter as some posters have suggested. Hopefully there will be in-body stabilization and screw drive/mechanical aperture activation.

I think it is a mistake to overemphasise the sensor cost - FF is more expensive, but Sony is already supplying FF sensors, and the marginal cost will be lowered. I see a 2013 time frame and EVF with global shutter on the A9. The form-factor will be range-finder, but that does not make it a NEX.

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Eleson
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2 chances zero and none!!! At all ...
In reply to tbcass, Feb 23, 2012

tbcass wrote:

Anastigmat wrote:

NEX-9 with the new sensor in the Nikon D800?

I think that since the object of the NEX series is to make as compact a camera as possible in my opinion there is almost no chance that a Full Frame NEX will ever be built.

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There are almost no e-mount lenses available.
How many of those are called FF-lenses?

Does anyone look forward to Sony spliiting their lens-develoment budget in a APS-C and a FF line?

That would surely get the ppl saying "Sony can't possibly be slower in developing lenses" to shut up!

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Cheers
Erland

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HopeSpringsEternal
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Re: How likely will there be a FF NEX?
In reply to Anastigmat, Feb 23, 2012

Forget about it!
Sony is not about to start selling two lines of NEX lenses for APS-C and FF.

Since Sony does not have any FF Range Finder legacy, there is no business case that can be made as to why it needs to release a compact camera with an expensive FF sensor.

The real reason though that we want them to do so though is because it provides a home to mount Leica M-mount range finder lenses and adapted SLR manual focus lenses and achieve images with the original Film focal length and DoF characteristics.

If FF sensors were merely 10-30% more expensive than APS-C sensors then the NEX would already have been released as a full frame camera system, but the're not. They are much more expensive to produce and sell in much limited quantities than the APS-C based cameras.

To put things in perspective, today you can find APS-C and 4:3rds based cameras (Compact and DSLRs) on sale about $300. Subtract the cost of the non-sensor components and you realize that it is possible that a company like Sony may be able to manufacture mass market amortized class leading APS-C sensors for as little as $50!

35mm Full frame sensors on the other hand (with the requirement for stitching, low yields, more silicon etc..) may still be costing more like $500 with the cheapest on-sale full frame cameras costing close to $1,800. (Sony A850)

That is a big difference.

Now I personally think they should release a full frame NEX with a legitimate line of small fast HQ lenses for it (like Fuji's new X1Pro lenses).

Anastigmat wrote:

NEX-9 with the new sensor in the Nikon D800?

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aman74
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Re: How likely will there be a FF NEX?
In reply to Anastigmat, Feb 23, 2012

Might want to check out the other 100 threads on the subject.

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