ORB Explanation = Batch issues

Started Feb 21, 2012 | Discussions
lacro
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ORB Explanation = Batch issues
Feb 21, 2012

Could it be by any chance that this whole issue be a sensor batch mistake?

Having read almost all the ORB's threads, I've noticed as everyone else, that not all experienced the same issue. It doesn't seem to be a user's fault, because only some suffered the problem, and found it strange that I haven't found this approach before.

Would it make sense in trying to trace those serial number models?

Regards,
Carlos Lacroze

lol101
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Re: ORB Explanation = Batch issues
In reply to lacro, Feb 21, 2012

lacro wrote:

Could it be by any chance that this whole issue be a sensor batch mistake?

Having read almost all the ORB's threads, I've noticed as everyone else, that not all experienced the same issue. It doesn't seem to be a user's fault, because only some suffered the problem, and found it strange that I haven't found this approach before.

Would it make sense in trying to trace those serial number models?

Regards,
Carlos Lacroze

No.

It's just that some people shoot in less orb-prone situations and hence, experience less problems.

AFAIK, all X10 exhibit the same behavior re. the orbs.
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Daniel Barnett
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Re: ORB Explanation = Batch issues
In reply to lol101, Feb 21, 2012

Nope....I love the x10 as it serves me well. But I get orbs some of the time. I have shot over 1500 images and have found 6 photos that are "ruined". There could be orbs in some of my other photos, but they did not present themselves to me. I think it is based on situational photography. I think a good deal of people on this forum have valid complaints on the performance to the sensor.

I just realized that I replied in the wrong "place". I meant to reply to the OP.

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aeneon
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Re: ORB Explanation = Batch issues
In reply to lacro, Feb 21, 2012

Nope.... all affected - period.

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GaryJP
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Old myth reborn
In reply to lacro, Feb 22, 2012

No.

Even people with the very newest serial numbers have shown orbs.

Fuji have admitted it's part of the sensor design.

This myth is just the latest attempt to con the rubes into buying new copies of a crap sensor.

lacro wrote:

Could it be by any chance that this whole issue be a sensor batch mistake?

Having read almost all the ORB's threads, I've noticed as everyone else, that not all experienced the same issue. It doesn't seem to be a user's fault, because only some suffered the problem, and found it strange that I haven't found this approach before.

Would it make sense in trying to trace those serial number models?

Regards,
Carlos Lacroze

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PJInTheUSA
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Re: ORB Explanation = Batch issues
In reply to lacro, Feb 22, 2012

I doubt it. Although I do wonder whether is a sensor tolerance issue. i.e. some sensors are more prone to the orb issue than others. This would speak to a manufacturing QA issue. It would explain why people's experiences vary and why the recent firmware fix does not work. Some sensors are so far out the firmware will make no difference. With others it may.

Pure speculation of course.

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lacro
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Re: ORB Explanation = Batch issues
In reply to PJInTheUSA, Feb 22, 2012

THANKS to everyone for your input.

As I'm not such a good photographer, perhaps I should keep on waiting for the following model after this X10. It's discouraging, because it seems the best option for the compact street camera I'm still looking. I wouldn't consider the other options also, because I now know there could be a better one, the X10 FIXED.

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Carlos Lacroze

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GaryJP
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Re: ORB Explanation = Batch issues
In reply to lacro, Mar 1, 2012

PART of the problem is the orbs.

That MAY be fixed with an X11 or an X20.

The other part of the problem is FU-ji's attitude.

And their reputation.

That is not likely to be fixed so easily.

lacro wrote:

THANKS to everyone for your input.

As I'm not such a good photographer, perhaps I should keep on waiting for the following model after this X10. It's discouraging, because it seems the best option for the compact street camera I'm still looking. I wouldn't consider the other options also, because I now know there could be a better one, the X10 FIXED.

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Carlos Lacroze

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Kim Letkeman
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No ... how tiresome that this comes up every 3 days ...
In reply to lacro, Mar 1, 2012
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xeriwthe
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Re: No ... how tiresome that this comes up every 3 days ...
In reply to Kim Letkeman, Mar 1, 2012

most people aren't aware that different X10's do exhibit varying levels of blooming:

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/3340468423/fujifilm-x10-orbs-investigated-does-the-firmware-fix-work/2

see the section labeled "sample variation"

this could help explain why some people are so up in arms, while others indignantly defensive about the actual results. depending on how bad the camera is, and what the person shoots, there is some very wide spectrum of final opinion on the camera

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FeedMe
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Re: No ... how tiresome that this comes up every 3 days ...
In reply to xeriwthe, Mar 1, 2012

Even in the worst case scenarios they had there, the orbs still stuck out like dog-balls!

ALL of this crap about different versions and mythological hidden sensor updates and newer models.. all they do is confuse the prospective buyers.

Why do you people so much want some other people to buy this faulty camera - why are you deliberately trying to deceive them into buying one..

(NB: the "you" there was not a reference to YOU personally (even though this is a reply to you) - it's a generic reference to those doing this sort of obfuscation attempts)

xeriwthe wrote:

most people aren't aware that different X10's do exhibit varying levels of blooming:

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/3340468423/fujifilm-x10-orbs-investigated-does-the-firmware-fix-work/2

see the section labeled "sample variation"

this could help explain why some people are so up in arms, while others indignantly defensive about the actual results. depending on how bad the camera is, and what the person shoots, there is some very wide spectrum of final opinion on the camera

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xeriwthe
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Re: No ... how tiresome that this comes up every 3 days ...
In reply to FeedMe, Mar 1, 2012

people who are willing to accept the compromises for the form factor (which is basically what it comes down to) should be aware of all the facts regarding this sensor.

yes it blooms, regardless of the camera. no the bloom is not exactly identical on all cameras, and may make the difference between acceptable and non-acceptable image when viewed at web size, as I feel it does with the DPreview test sample.

yes i'm a f* nut shill who just needs to bring everyone down with me in my misery and denial of ORB MANIA !!! WAH WAH WAH I HATE YOU ORBERS WHA WAH ARAJARJA

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FeedMe
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Re: No ... how tiresome that this comes up every 3 days ...
In reply to xeriwthe, Mar 1, 2012

xeriwthe wrote:

people who are willing to accept the compromises for the form factor (which is basically what it comes down to) should be aware of all the facts regarding this sensor.

Yes - but the BAD and the good facts regarding the sensor.. not, as the no-orby people would have it, only the good facts.

yes it blooms, regardless of the camera. no the bloom is not exactly identical on all cameras, and may make the difference between acceptable and non-acceptable image when viewed at web size, as I feel it does with the DPreview test sample.

But who spends this sort of money of this sort of camera just to be locked to a 'web size' image?

yes i'm a f* nut shill who just needs to bring everyone down with me in my misery and denial of ORB MANIA !!! WAH WAH WAH I HATE YOU ORBERS WHA WAH ARAJARJA

(Act like a baby and you get treated like a baby)

Poor baby, don't cry - here, have a smiley face sticky to stick over those nasty orbs..

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xeriwthe
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Re: No ... how tiresome that this comes up every 3 days ...
In reply to FeedMe, Mar 1, 2012

But who spends this sort of money of this sort of camera just to be locked to a 'web size' image?

i guess i'm one of those idiots who mostly view at web size, it's amazing how many retards like me there are on flickr who spend thousands on cameras to post images that most people view at web size (1024x1024). such is humanity, no big surprise, right?

well now that flickr is moving to a new interface, the orb-age will become more obvious!! uh-oh

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FeedMe
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Re: No ... how tiresome that this comes up every 3 days ...
In reply to xeriwthe, Mar 1, 2012

xeriwthe wrote:

But who spends this sort of money of this sort of camera just to be locked to a 'web size' image?

i guess i'm one of those idiots who mostly view at web size, it's amazing how many retards like me there are on flickr who spend thousands on cameras to post images that most people view at web size (1024x1024). such is humanity, no big surprise, right?

Why are you calling yourself names?

Or are you hoping readers will think it was me doing the name calling?

well now that flickr is moving to a new interface, the orb-age will become more obvious!! uh-oh

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xeriwthe
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Re: No ... how tiresome that this comes up every 3 days ...
In reply to FeedMe, Mar 1, 2012

just pre-emptively insulting myself to save a lot of people the trouble, since i'm taking an "orb defensive" position by trying to be informative yet positive about the x10.

no you didn't insult me, directly. you just asked who spends $600 to view mostly at web-size? it seems there are many people who do, or intend to mostly present at web-size. i guess you think we're not reasonable, or something

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FeedMe
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Re: No ... how tiresome that this comes up every 3 days ...
In reply to xeriwthe, Mar 1, 2012

xeriwthe wrote:

just pre-emptively insulting myself to save a lot of people the trouble, since i'm taking an "orb defensive" position by trying to be informative yet positive about the x10.

Ok - sounds right.. I wouldn't call you a rabid orb-defensive though - by your very own words you are "trying to be informative yet positive about the x10" - those are not the words of a FujiDefender. They don't need to "try" to be positive or informed - they refuse to be informed and are automatically (almost fanatically) positive..

Can you answer a genuine question then, direct to you..

Why does it matter to you to defend the camera to a prospective buyer? What difference does it matter to you if they buy it or walk away?

(I'm NOT saying that's what you're doing - I'm asking if you give a shiit and why, whether a prospective buyer buys or walks..)

(Also - would you feel bad if someone did buy because they got confused reading all these FujiDefender posts (and, again, note that I don't refer to you) and then found ruined orb-ridden shots?)

no you didn't insult me, directly. you just asked who spends $600 to view mostly at web-size? it seems there are many people who do, or intend to mostly present at web-size. i guess you think we're not reasonable, or something

No, not unreasonable - I just wonder why spend $600 on a camera just to make web-size, you could get just as good an image out of a HS20, at web-size..

You might answer that the X10 allows you to step up past the web-size, which is true.. but then you start to step up into the sizes where the orbs do matter..

Please don't mistake me or my thoughts on this issue - I'm not in any way attacking you for loving the X10, or for how you're using it.

I truly believe that if you are happy with any camera, that is all that matters - I just can't understand why people (not you specifically) keep trying to defend this camera.

I mean; defend a person; wife, daughter, etc.. defend an ideal; justice or truth or whatever.. but to rush about defending a tool, a thing, a possession.. a spanner or a toaster??

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Argie
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Re: No ... how tiresome that this comes up every 3 days ...
In reply to FeedMe, Mar 1, 2012

Well, finally xeriwthe and FeedMe have brought some badly needed intelligent exchanges to this forum.

George
Bedford, TX

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jimr
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Since We Are Talking Reputation. Has Canon
In reply to GaryJP, Mar 1, 2012

admitted to posting the wrong sample images on their own website (G1 X) for the
SX 260 HS or corrected the EXIF if that was wrong???

It would be nice if a company was truthful or admitted mistakes if that was the case rather than saying nothing...and misleading potential purchasers.

I expect honesty from all companies if they expect good reputations...

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xeriwthe
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Re: No ... how tiresome that this comes up every 3 days ...
In reply to FeedMe, Mar 1, 2012

Hi FeedMe,

thanks for being reasonable, to answering your questions

Why does it matter to you to defend the camera to a prospective buyer? What difference does it matter to you if they buy it or walk away?

i guess it's ultimately selfishness to me: the more people who buy and enjoy this camera, the more example pics I see of what it can achieve, the more information I hear on how to get the best out of it.

and idealistically, i believe Fujifilm is ultimately doing us all a favor opening up a new market segment, manual zoom, OVF, bright lens; that this world would be a little worse without it in spite of massively blown highlights. the more exposure it gets, the more people who can find and enjoy it, the more likely we will eventually see a 'perfect' incarnation of the x10, global compact digital camera market-willing. i'm not hopeful given the shape of things (FF might end up riding this scandal into a black hole and we'll all be stuck with g12/g1x/p7000 clones for the lifetime of this universe, oh joy yea canon is doing us such a favor there)

(Also - would you feel bad if someone did buy because they got confused reading all these FujiDefender posts (and, again, note that I don't refer to you) and then found ruined orb-ridden shots?)

well yes, i would definitely feel bad, if they believed the hyperbole, positive and negative regarding this camera. I don't agree with the people who only have negative or positive to say about this camera.

No, not unreasonable - I just wonder why spend $600 on a camera just to make web-size, you could get just as good an image out of a HS20, at web-size..

would you make the same argument of DSLRs? if you only photograph resolution charts, sure.

i like looking at light filtering through leaves, the texture and shading on bark, the clouds and lights in background.. and i have no doubt the x10 is better at handling these types of scenes than most p&s. not as good as SLR, but with its EXR DR trickery, i am really impressed by SOME x10 photos.. not all. shooting nature generally works pretty well with x10

Please don't mistake me or my thoughts on this issue - I'm not in any way attacking you for loving the X10, or for how you're using it.

I truly believe that if you are happy with any camera, that is all that matters - I just can't understand why people (not you specifically) keep trying to defend this camera.

I mean; defend a person; wife, daughter, etc.. defend an ideal; justice or truth or whatever.. but to rush about defending a tool, a thing, a possession.. a spanner or a toaster??

As a fond owner of the camera, it irritates me to hear people say things like "x10 is rubbish". it's not true for everyone, and if i were to hear this in passing and never gave this camera the light of day, i'd have shot myself in the foot. so just putting my little opinion out there, hopefully in a reasonable way that people can read and evaluate for themselves.

and i'm just a little bored at work, whiling away some time

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