Very mixed feelings about Whitney's funeral

Started Feb 18, 2012 | Discussions
Marcamera
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Very mixed feelings about Whitney's funeral
Feb 18, 2012

I cannot help but keep asking:

Where were all those "close" friends when Whitney was sliding into her dark side, life of drugs and alcohol abuse?
They all love her now but they all let her die the way she should not have.

Rgds

Bill Randall
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Re: Very mixed feelings about Whitney's funeral
In reply to Marcamera, Feb 18, 2012

Marcamera wrote:

I cannot help but keep asking:

Where were all those "close" friends when Whitney was sliding into her dark side, life of drugs and alcohol abuse?
They all love her now but they all let her die the way she should not have.

Rgds

She was given a great gift, her voice. She led her life the way she wanted to, exercising her rights as an American citizen. Today she is being exhibited as a wonderful roll model - just like Elvis. I fail to understand it.

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mamallama
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Re: Very mixed feelings about Whitney's funeral
In reply to Marcamera, Feb 18, 2012

Marcamera wrote:

I cannot help but keep asking:

Where were all those "close" friends when Whitney was sliding into her dark side, life of drugs and alcohol abuse?
They all love her now but they all let her die the way she should not have.

It is sad for sure that her life was so tragically short and the question you ask is certainly worth pondering and wondering. Really, you can ask, how much can even those very close to a person can do in these circumstances?

Now we see much fanfare after her death and you wonder is this just the media capitalizing on the publicity for commercial gain? I'm sure the gossip rags like National Enquirer and People Magazine will make the most of it.

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mamallama
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Re: Very mixed feelings about Whitney's funeral
In reply to Bill Randall, Feb 18, 2012

Bill Randall wrote:

Marcamera wrote:

I cannot help but keep asking:

Where were all those "close" friends when Whitney was sliding into her dark side, life of drugs and alcohol abuse?
They all love her now but they all let her die the way she should not have.

Rgds

She was given a great gift, her voice. She led her life the way she wanted to, exercising her rights as an American citizen. Today she is being exhibited as a wonderful roll model - just like Elvis. I fail to understand it.

I think you mean "role model". You have made this mistake twice.

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KEVZPHOTOS
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Re: Very mixed feelings about Whitney's funeral
In reply to Marcamera, Feb 18, 2012

Marcamera wrote:

I cannot help but keep asking:

Where were all those "close" friends when Whitney was sliding into her dark side, life of drugs and alcohol abuse?
They all love her now but they all let her die the way she should not have.

Yeah, I've asked that myself.

Looking back at many of the media clips it's blatently obvious that she was falling between the cracks (no pun intended) from around the mid 90's onwards...and in the recent decade it's clear that she was riding the rollercoaster junk-wagon ride.

You'd THUNK...that some of these good folks & family, etc., would have taken a far more pro-active role in trying to get her into detox and all the rest of it.

KEV

"It is a small gesture, but one that can be very effective - especially in a large crowd. So fart, and if you must, fart often. But always fart without apology. Fart for freedom, fart for liberty, and fart proudly" (Benjamin Franklin 'The Dream' 1751)

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Bill Randall
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Re: Very mixed feelings about Whitney's funeral
In reply to mamallama, Feb 18, 2012

mamallama wrote:

Bill Randall wrote:

Marcamera wrote:

I cannot help but keep asking:

Where were all those "close" friends when Whitney was sliding into her dark side, life of drugs and alcohol abuse?
They all love her now but they all let her die the way she should not have.

Rgds

She was given a great gift, her voice. She led her life the way she wanted to, exercising her rights as an American citizen. Today she is being exhibited as a wonderful roll model - just like Elvis. I fail to understand it.

I think you mean "role model". You have made this mistake twice.

Thank you for correcting me.

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KEVZPHOTOS
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Re: Very mixed feelings about Whitney's funeral
In reply to KEVZPHOTOS, Feb 18, 2012

I must add tho.

Nobody can force anyone into rehab or to seek treatment for this kinda problem.

Plus, of course, there's still an awful social stigma attached to anything addiction or mental health related.

So, those two factors do play a huge role in any scenario like this.

Unfortunately, some laws need to change...coz, at times when folks NEED help the very most and are an obvious danger to themselves...nobody is allowed to step in and make sure that they get the help they require.

Before it's too late, as in Whitney's case.

KEV

"It is a small gesture, but one that can be very effective - especially in a large crowd. So fart, and if you must, fart often. But always fart without apology. Fart for freedom, fart for liberty, and fart proudly" (Benjamin Franklin 'The Dream' 1751)

http://kvincentphotography.ca/stackedimages
http://kvincentphotography.ca/designerflorals
http://kvincentphotography.ca/macro

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Bill Randall
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Re: Very mixed feelings about Whitney's funeral
In reply to KEVZPHOTOS, Feb 18, 2012

KEVZPHOTOS wrote:

I must add tho.

Nobody can force anyone into rehab or to seek treatment for this kinda problem.

Plus, of course, there's still an awful social stigma attached to anything addiction or mental health related.

So, those two factors do play a huge role in any scenario like this.

Unfortunately, some laws need to change...coz, at times when folks NEED help the very most and are an obvious danger to themselves...nobody is allowed to step in and make sure that they get the help they require.

Before it's too late, as in Whitney's case.

KEV

I may be mistaken, but I think Elvis' father tried to stop him from doing drugs and they had a big argument. A big star seems to have so much influence in so many parts of our society, as well as big bucks, it is hard to influence or "control" them.

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Dick Thomas
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Do We Know What They Tried?
In reply to Marcamera, Feb 18, 2012

I certainly do not have any of the details of WH's substance abuse history other than knowledge that she had a problem. What I don't know is how hard those around her tried to help. They may have been enablers who partied along with her and they might just as well have been trying their best to help her kick some bad habits. She may have been in and out of detox many times for all any of us know. Such things can be well covered up. As others have mentioned in other threads, the lifestyle of the rich and famous is very seductive and bad habits once acquired are difficult if not impossible to quit.

Hopefully her legacy as a performer will be remembered and not the legacy of her personal addiction problems.

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itchhh
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Re: Do We Know What They Tried?
In reply to Dick Thomas, Feb 18, 2012

Addiction is a terrible thing for anyone to go through... and too many people struggle with it. Whether it’s illegal drugs, OTC drugs, alcohol or something else, it tears people’s lives apart. Actually it tears whole families to shreds because you have to watch a loved one die a little each day. I just can't get over why some want to legalize drugs?

People can have such destructive behavior trying to fill that hole in their spirit that they will be that proverbial lemming. Trying to escape whatever has gone wrong they wind up in chains. Some escape others die.

Whitney on TV or Joe at the local shelter. . . . death really is the great equalizer.

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Dick Thomas
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Re: Do We Know What They Tried?
In reply to itchhh, Feb 18, 2012

You hit the nail on the head. My wife and I volunteer at a local shelter for the homeless (my wife's biggest crusade among many others). We know a lot of "Joes" at the shelter who drift in and out of being clean. Ironically, it is so much harder for the poor to support their habit as compared to the mega-wealthy while on the other hand it is so much harder for the poor to get treatment. We know many individuals who have kicked some very serious drug habits who have gone on to help at the shelter serving others. Clearly money is not the answer to a happy life and may well lead to bad behavior, and money alone can not dig you out of a deep hole of addiction once you have fallen in.
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Tom C
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Re: Very mixed feelings about Whitney's funeral
In reply to Marcamera, Feb 18, 2012

It would not surprise me if some of her friends tried to get her help but she was the only one that could, no one could force her. I know in New Jersey you can get help even if the person does not want it but forget Pennsylvania, so the state they live in could play a part. There is a long list, younger then her that passed before their time, just look at the 27 club.
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Chato
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Whoa!
In reply to Bill Randall, Feb 19, 2012

Governor Christy, not exactly a bleeding heart Liberal, put it quite well.

“Whitney Houston was a true New Jersey treasure. Her terribly premature death is an awful loss for her family and the incredible New Jersey musical family. Her soaring talent put her in the pantheon of great New Jersey musical talents like Frank Sinatra, Count Basie and Bruce Springsteen.”

On Sunday, Christie added a more personal message via Twitter: “Terrible day 4 NJ music w/passing of Whitney Houston. Fellow Mendham resident, she will be missed in NJ & the music world. pray 4 her family.”

She had personal failings. Too bad. She gave us gold.

Dave
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Chato
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Re: Very mixed feelings about Whitney's funeral
In reply to KEVZPHOTOS, Feb 19, 2012

KEVZPHOTOS wrote:

I must add tho.

Nobody can force anyone into rehab or to seek treatment for this kinda problem.

Plus, of course, there's still an awful social stigma attached to anything addiction or mental health related.

So, those two factors do play a huge role in any scenario like this.

Unfortunately, some laws need to change...coz, at times when folks NEED help the very most and are an obvious danger to themselves...nobody is allowed to step in and make sure that they get the help they require.

Before it's too late, as in Whitney's case.

Sure. We can copy the Soviet Union and force people into rehab...

I do believe this is the very epitime of "slipery slope."

There are of course many ways to "kill someone." Making decisions for them is one of them.

Dave
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Marcamera
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Re: Do We Know What They Tried?
In reply to Dick Thomas, Feb 19, 2012

Dick Thomas wrote:

I certainly do not have any of the details of WH's substance abuse history other than knowledge that she had a problem. What I don't know is how hard those around her tried to help. They may have been enablers who partied along with her and they might just as well have been trying their best to help her kick some bad habits. She may have been in and out of detox many times for all any of us know. Such things can be well covered up. As others have mentioned in other threads, the lifestyle of the rich and famous is very seductive and bad habits once acquired are difficult if not impossible to quit.

Hopefully her legacy as a performer will be remembered and not the legacy of her personal addiction problems.

And I also certainly hope that some of the closest friends, in mourning now, had tried helping her. At the very least, even if they had not succeeded, they may have a clean conscience. As Kev said, you cannot force a person out of bad habits if there is no will to do so on the part of that person (in essence).

But I also had that uneasy feeling that some of her friends partied along only to act sorry for what happened in spite the fact that was inevitably coming.
Rgds

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mamallama
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Re: Do We Know What They Tried?
In reply to Marcamera, Feb 19, 2012

Marcamera wrote:

But I also had that uneasy feeling that some of her friends partied along only to act sorry for what happened in spite the fact that was inevitably coming.

That is very likely, even some who are speaking out publicly in sorrow for her now. That's the sad nature of the drug culture beast.

On a related subject, I don't understand how society tolerate the drug culture. Perhaps because the well heeled, rich, and famous are the basic consumers. We keep hearing how much we are doing to fight the drug wars, but the battle is only at the Mexican/US border and not in the rich communities and plush hotels where the drugs are consumed.

It doesn't take a big thinker to know that the source of the hundred of million of dollars the Drug Cartels are risking their lives for are coming from the ghetto where the drugs are sold. But you don't see any drug enforcement agents in the Hollywood parties and hotels. They are in the ghetto of the inter cities.

Is there any drug enforcement agent pursuing the source of Whitney Houston's or Bobby Brown's drugs? The Drug War is really a sham.

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Ubilam
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Who are you, Marcamera?
In reply to Marcamera, Feb 19, 2012

What gives you the right to comment on her life? Did you know her personally???
Are you in the entertainment industry? I was, and know alot. Its not easy.

Her dark side???????????

Marcamera wrote:

I cannot help but keep asking:

Where were all those "close" friends when Whitney was sliding into her dark side, life of drugs and alcohol abuse?
They all love her now but they all let her die the way she should not have.

Rgds

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Bill Randall
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Re: Who are you, Marcamera?
In reply to Ubilam, Feb 19, 2012

Ubilam wrote:
What gives you the right to comment on her life? Did you know her personally???
Are you in the entertainment industry? I was, and know alot. Its not easy.

Her dark side???????????

Marcamera wrote:

I cannot help but keep asking:

Where were all those "close" friends when Whitney was sliding into her dark side, life of drugs and alcohol abuse?
They all love her now but they all let her die the way she should not have.

Rgds

Ubilum: It sounds like you are very upset about her death. This is understandable regardless of your relationship with her: co-worker or fan.

Marcamera did not make accusations as if they were known facts, but prefaced his commentss with: "I cannot help but keep asking".

Since you are in the industry you know quite well the time and money that goes into having a star talked about by the public. Their managers and others encourage newspapers, tv, radio and fans to talk about the star. The more talk the bigger the star.

Do you think all this talk will stop when the artist dies? I think much of the "negative" conversation about her death and drugs is or could be sending a very positive message to other stars: Just because you are idolized by millions for your achievement, remember that your whole life - good and bad - will remain in the public view after your death. It will be talked about.

Stars, just like the rest of us, must strive to always set a good example for others. When I die very few people will have been affected by whatever I have done in life - good or bad. When a star dies, they have left their mark on millions of people - good or bad. It goes with the job. Just my opinion.

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Marcamera
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Re: Who are you, Marcamera?
In reply to Ubilam, Feb 19, 2012

Ubilam wrote:

What gives you the right to comment on her life?

I beg your pardon?

First off, she was a public figure, her choice, not mine. I may have an opinion about her, favourable or not.

It happens that I have a favourable opinion of her, I feel sorry that such talent slid into darker life. She talked about it herself, about her substance abuse. Was I supposed to turn off my TV for that interview with Diane Sawyer?

Second, I am not so much commenting on Whitney's life as I am on the irony of her friends giving her so much love after she is gone, but somehow not being able to help her when she needed help.

Did you know her personally???

I may use the same argument towards you. Do you know me? What gives you the right then? Silly.

Are you in the entertainment industry?

I am not sure what the connection is. Are you different kind of people, in the entertainment industry? Different world? Different set of life principles? Have you ever been a fireman and rescued a child from a fire? Or a surgeon, holding on to someone's life by a thread?

I was, and know alot. Its not easy.

I have no doubt it is not.

Her dark side???????????

Should I repeat it? Substance abuse, by her own admission.

Rgds

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Chato
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Re: Who are you, Marcamera?
In reply to Bill Randall, Feb 19, 2012

Bill Randall wrote:

Ubilam wrote:
What gives you the right to comment on her life? Did you know her personally???
Are you in the entertainment industry? I was, and know alot. Its not easy.

Her dark side???????????

Marcamera wrote:

I cannot help but keep asking:

Where were all those "close" friends when Whitney was sliding into her dark side, life of drugs and alcohol abuse?
They all love her now but they all let her die the way she should not have.

Rgds

Ubilum: It sounds like you are very upset about her death. This is understandable regardless of your relationship with her: co-worker or fan.

Marcamera did not make accusations as if they were known facts, but prefaced his commentss with: "I cannot help but keep asking".

Since you are in the industry you know quite well the time and money that goes into having a star talked about by the public. Their managers and others encourage newspapers, tv, radio and fans to talk about the star. The more talk the bigger the star.

Do you think all this talk will stop when the artist dies? I think much of the "negative" conversation about her death and drugs is or could be sending a very positive message to other stars: Just because you are idolized by millions for your achievement, remember that your whole life - good and bad - will remain in the public view after your death. It will be talked about.

Stars, just like the rest of us, must strive to always set a good example for others. When I die very few people will have been affected by whatever I have done in life - good or bad. When a star dies, they have left their mark on millions of people - good or bad. It goes with the job. Just my opinion.

Why should a "star" have to live up to anyones morality but their own? Where is this written? Ms. Houston donated the proceeds of some of her records to various charities? Isn't this more important than what she does with her own life? Isn't that her business and not mine?

The only person I consciously try to impress is me. It's very important to me, that I live up to my beliefs. Should I live up to yours? To anyone else but what I believe? My morality to me trumps your morality, at least in my eyes. Nor do I expect You to live up to what I believe or don't believe.

You a fan of Tebow?

Dave

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