D800 - motion blur problem coming?

Started Feb 7, 2012 | Discussions
Petruska
Veteran MemberPosts: 6,601
Like?
D800 - motion blur problem coming?
Feb 7, 2012

Rob Van Petten, who shot the Nikon sample photos, mentions this on his blog...

‘The high density sensor is sensitive to motion blur”, causing him problems that he needed to use a tripod when using the 200 f2 with flash in the studio.

So this is just a warning for all you new D800 owners that intend to do a lot of hand held shots!

We are entering a new Hi-MP era and new problems will come with it.

Bob P.

Nikon D800
If you believe there are incorrect tags, please send us this post using our feedback form.
260684
Senior MemberPosts: 1,909
Like?
Nah
In reply to Petruska, Feb 7, 2012

Double your shutter speed and you won't have this issue. Ie instead of going down to 1/80 of a second on an 85mm lens on a D700, you'll use 1/160 or 1/320 on an 85 to ensure sharpness in this respect. It's not that difficult...

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Dominique Dierick
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,467Gear list
Like?
+1 nt
In reply to 260684, Feb 7, 2012
-- hide signature --

My equipment: Nikon D3s, D700, D7000
The ladies equipment: Panasonic LX5 and GH2 for video

 Dominique Dierick's gear list:Dominique Dierick's gear list
Fujifilm X100S
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
anotherMike
Veteran MemberPosts: 6,949
Like?
Re: Yup
In reply to 260684, Feb 7, 2012

Actually, people are going to be surprised at how much better their technique is going to have to become after they get their hands on something like the d800. Prepare for a rash of "why are my shots soft, I spent 3 grand on my D800E and what's wrong" type of posts in about 2-3 months, guaranteed...

I get motion blur with relatively static shots of models taken with flashes that fire at about 1/650th of a second, handheld, in the studio, with a D7000. Regularly. And that's with a 24-70...

The D800 will be no different.

-m

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Flashlight
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,321
Like?
Re: Nah
In reply to 260684, Feb 7, 2012

260684 wrote:

Double your shutter speed and you won't have this issue. Ie instead of going down to 1/80 of a second on an 85mm lens on a D700, you'll use 1/160 or 1/320 on an 85 to ensure sharpness in this respect. It's not that difficult...

Methinks you have absolutely no experience with flash in a studio

-- hide signature --

Philip

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
binary_eye
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,290
Like?
Re: D800 - motion blur problem coming?
In reply to Petruska, Feb 7, 2012

Petruska wrote:

‘The high density sensor is sensitive to motion blur”, causing him problems that he needed to use a tripod when using the 200 f2 with flash in the studio.

This depends a lot on what lights are being used, their duration at the power they are used, and how much they overpower any ambient light. Given enough ambient light, or long flash duration, it's relatively easy to get motion blur at 200mm regardless of the body used because of flash sync limitations. With higher resolution, it will just be more noticeable at the pixel level.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
SeanU
Senior MemberPosts: 2,054
Like?
Re: D800 - motion blur problem coming?
In reply to Petruska, Feb 7, 2012

Doesn't this depend on print or viewing size and the viewers distance? I mean... if you look at the pixels, motion will be more obvious... but why are you looking at pixels?
--
http://www.dustandrust.com

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
rayman 2
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,209
Like?
Put it on a tripod ! Period !
In reply to Flashlight, Feb 7, 2012

Put it on a tripod ! Period !

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
ovrebekk
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,247
Like?
No worse than the D7000
In reply to Petruska, Feb 7, 2012

If you've used the D7000 it should be just the same, assuming you use a similar focal length. If you adjust the focal length to account for the FF/crop difference the D800 will require approx. 50% shorter shutter speeds.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
DaniDR
Regular MemberPosts: 175
Like?
Re: D800 - motion blur problem coming?
In reply to Petruska, Feb 7, 2012

The D800 is no more susceptible to motion blur than the D700. What relally happens is that it's more visible at 1:1 resolution. Since it's a much higher MP sensor, It means you need to be more careful if you want to take advantage of what 36mpx can provide you.

If you're going to print low res or just for web, this is not going to be a problem. Now if a good landscape photographer uses a good tripod, mirror up and a cable release, then the full capabilities of the sensor will shine!

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
StillLearning
Senior MemberPosts: 1,984
Like?
Re: depends who is purchang the camera
In reply to Petruska, Feb 7, 2012

Many who have gone through the D100 to D200 change had to relearn proper camera technique to benefit from the extra pixels. The newbies complained the most about softeness which most of the time could be attributed to camera shake.

I expect the same to the nth degree involving the D800's. Shooting at lower shutter speeds, the ugly mirror slap vibration could introduce more image degradation. Those who already use tripod and the mirror-up approach I expect will transition more smoothly. I will need to re-visit those techniques myself if I want to get the most out of this mega pixel beast. I have very good glass and hope it will be up to the task.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
lovEU
Senior MemberPosts: 2,937
Like?
Re: D800 - motion blur problem coming?
In reply to Petruska, Feb 7, 2012

Petruska wrote:

Rob Van Petten, who shot the Nikon sample photos, mentions this on his blog...

‘The high density sensor is sensitive to motion blur”, causing him problems that he needed to use a tripod when using the 200 f2 with flash in the studio.

... it has been forecasted at several occasions right here by folks like anotherMike or Iliah Borg. If you're shooting handheld one won't gain much or anything by using a sensor with more than 12 MP.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Ray Soares
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,064Gear list
Like?
I´m sure it will happen...
In reply to Petruska, Feb 7, 2012

That's what happened in D7000 forum for the last 6 months at least!!!

And no matter some very experienced guys like Steve Bingham, Jack Hogan and others told people to increase their shutter speeds, to get better lenses, to shot raw, etc, even today there are many posts about bad sharpness of the D7000/5100.

I'm a happy owner of a D7000 and coming from a reliable D300 I can assure you guys that MANY people here will also complain, no matter this forum got much more experienced photographers.

Almost every pic I've seen from D800 was shot with a tripod. And the quality is stuninng! But make no mistake: if some people complain about the size of a D4, imagine if they need to carry a tripod...

BTW I downloaded today a full size portrait at iso 100 of 1Dx and it is also stunning. I really dont need more pixels than Nikon's 16 or Canon's 18 (practically the same results). And for landscapes I almost always can stitch and get even more than 36 mp!

Of course for low light performance and focus reliability I AM NIKON.

And guess what: because of that Canon pic - as I couldnt find a full image iso 100 pic of D4 - I decided to keep my D4 pre-order AND to keep my D7000

Best
--
Ray Soares

See my pictures at http://www.pbase.com/raysoares

 Ray Soares's gear list:Ray Soares's gear list
Nikon D7000 Nikon D4 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24mm f/1.4G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 85mm f/1.4G +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
gonzalu
Forum ProPosts: 10,372Gear list
Like?
How come we don;t hear of these problems with mega
In reply to Petruska, Feb 7, 2012

resolution medium backs? They are also up there in pixel pitch...
--
Manny
http://www.pbase.com/gonzalu/
http://www.thrustimages.com/
FCAS Member - http://fcasmembers.com/

 gonzalu's gear list:gonzalu's gear list
RX100 III Nikon D3 Nikon D810 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED +5 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Ray Soares
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,064Gear list
Like?
Re: How come we don;t hear of these problems with mega
In reply to gonzalu, Feb 7, 2012

Because almost them are standing over a tripod and usually carry $10,000 plus lenses in a $30,000 studio with perfect lightning for ISO 50 at f8 pics
Best
--
Ray Soares

See my pictures at http://www.pbase.com/raysoares

 Ray Soares's gear list:Ray Soares's gear list
Nikon D7000 Nikon D4 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24mm f/1.4G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 85mm f/1.4G +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
260684
Senior MemberPosts: 1,909
Like?
Low light 'performance'
In reply to anotherMike, Feb 7, 2012

anotherMike wrote:

Actually, people are going to be surprised at how much better their technique is going to have to become after they get their hands on something like the d800. Prepare for a rash of "why are my shots soft, I spent 3 grand on my D800E and what's wrong" type of posts in about 2-3 months, guaranteed...

I get motion blur with relatively static shots of models taken with flashes that fire at about 1/650th of a second, handheld, in the studio, with a D7000. Regularly. And that's with a 24-70...

The D800 will be no different.

-m

Agree mike. The thing is, what people have not considered that this makes the D800 not a great ISO performer from the start. You're gonna need at least double your lens focal length to pull resolution out from your system - thus your 'low light pulling power' (laugh) decreases, before we even consider how good it performs in low light. Surely something to consider!

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
calson
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,315
Like?
nothing new here
In reply to Petruska, Feb 7, 2012

I have seen with 12MP APS-C size sensors on cameras that the old rule of thumb of shooting at the reciprocal of the focal length was too conservative and 1.5x or even 2x is needed for sharp pictures. I have long believed that many of the complaints about lack of sharpness that was blamed on the camera or lens AF components was often the result of too slow a shutter speed. Digital Lloyd did a paper on the subject that provided technical reasons why this would be happening.

The photographer complaining about the problem with a 200mm f2 lens was being stupid. A 200mm lens is going to need 1/200 at a minimum and VR only works when you stop for a full second and let it work. Moving around quickly in a studio or a reception or a church, etc. requires more careful technique to avoid camera motion induced image blurring.

The photographer was being sloppy and in the past it was not so obvious, but the fault is still with the photographer as most experienced photographers will realize is still important in the digital age.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
260684
Senior MemberPosts: 1,909
Like?
Re: Nah
In reply to Flashlight, Feb 7, 2012

Flashlight wrote:

260684 wrote:

Double your shutter speed and you won't have this issue. Ie instead of going down to 1/80 of a second on an 85mm lens on a D700, you'll use 1/160 or 1/320 on an 85 to ensure sharpness in this respect. It's not that difficult...

Methinks you have absolutely no experience with flash in a studio

-- hide signature --

Philip

Not everyone using this is going to be a studio 'flash photographer' mate. Infact you'll find you are in the minority of the population of users that will buy this. Other situations apply. And the only way around is tripod or doubling / trebling the shutter speed.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
260684
Senior MemberPosts: 1,909
Like?
Re: How come we don;t hear of these problems with mega
In reply to Ray Soares, Feb 7, 2012

Ray Soares wrote:

Because almost them are standing over a tripod and usually carry $10,000 plus lenses in a $30,000 studio with perfect lightning for ISO 50 at f8 pics
Best
--
Ray Soares

See my pictures at http://www.pbase.com/raysoares

Close. The real reason is they know better. They know what they need to do. Unlike the general naive person on here buying a D800 will...

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
diverroy
Contributing MemberPosts: 726
Like?
Re: D800 - motion blur problem coming?
In reply to Petruska, Feb 7, 2012

The file is 7,360 × 4912 pixels. It’s very, very sharp. It holds up to zooming up to 300% without the jiggy edges and pixillation produced by anything smaller. The sharpness is part pixel count and part processing.

The inherent file size can require some unusual treatment. The large capture can make the camera sensitive to vibration more than smaller cameras, requiring faster shutter speeds or a tripod. Even in the studio with flash, I used a tripod on shots done with a 200mm F/2 lens.

He also says how sharp the images are.
It's not a problem with the camera you just have to use it right
--
Diverroy

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads