New Tokina m4/3 300mm f6.3 lens

Started Feb 3, 2012 | Discussions
Chris_in_Osaka
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New Tokina m4/3 300mm f6.3 lens
Feb 3, 2012

Posted today on Japan's DCWatch site:
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20120203_509653.html

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JosephScha
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Re: New Tokina m4/3 300mm f6.3 lens
In reply to Chris_in_Osaka, Feb 3, 2012

Wow, it's almost cute! A miniature mirror lens!

If the price is as low as some of the existing mirror lenses I just might try it.

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Brian D. Schneider
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Re: New Tokina m4/3 300mm f6.3 lens
In reply to Chris_in_Osaka, Feb 3, 2012

Chris_in_Osaka wrote:

Posted today on Japan's DCWatch site:
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20120203_509653.html

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Canon 5D Mark II, 24-105mm L, 70-200mm f/4L IS, EF 50mm f1.4, Tokina 16-28mm f2.8.
Olympus E-PL1, E-PL2, 9-18mm, 14-42mm II, 17mm, 45mm f1.8 & FL-36R.
Ricoh GR-D
Sony DSC-V3 (used for IR)

Sweet, is it AF?
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LincolnB
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Comparison to the Pana 100-300mm
In reply to Chris_in_Osaka, Feb 3, 2012

At 300g and 6.6cm long it's about half the weight and length of the Panasonic 100-300m.

The Tokina mirror is manual focus, but at least it transmits EXIF to the camera body.
F/6.3 so it's a tad slower than the f/5.6 on the Panasonic.
Close focus is much better at 0.8m vs. 1.5m for the Panasonic.

The Panasonic 100-300mm is $500. The Tokina won't be anywhere near that expensive. I'm going to make a wild guess of $180-$200.

I like the samples I've seen from the Panasonic. I doubt the Tokina will be quite as nice (lower contrast, donut-shaped bokeh). Still, it looks like it would be a useful super tele and close focus lens for travel.

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Chris_in_Osaka
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Re: New Tokina m4/3 300mm f6.3 lens
In reply to Brian D. Schneider, Feb 3, 2012

Brian D. Schneider wrote:

Sweet, is it AF?

Appears to be manual focus.

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tjuster1
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Re: New Tokina m4/3 300mm f6.3 lens
In reply to Chris_in_Osaka, Feb 3, 2012

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought the reason you rarely saw AF mirror lenses was because of PDAF issues. I certainly can't see why CDAF should present any problems whatsoever. Given how darn difficult these lenses are to focus (600mm equivalent!) it sure would be nice if someone built an AF version--is it really that hard to do?

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Kuppenbender
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Re: New Tokina m4/3 300mm f6.3 lens
In reply to Chris_in_Osaka, Feb 3, 2012

I was just looking at the Tokina/Kenko 400mm f8 mirror lens thinking nice idea, but 300mm, a little smaller, a little faster would be better.

The shorter focal length would make it easier to use handheld, same goes for the wider aperture (faster shutter speeds). 'Smaller' is obviously the USP for mirror lenses, unless you have a particular fondness for doughnut bokeh.

Now there just remains the price and whether it's more like the old Tamron SP or the current Rokinon junk.

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bloodycape
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Re: New Tokina m4/3 300mm f6.3 lens
In reply to Chris_in_Osaka, Feb 3, 2012

Seems pretty tempting. Is there any samples from this, at least based on other their other mount versions?

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tpani
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Re: New Tokina m4/3 300mm f6.3 lens
In reply to tjuster1, Feb 3, 2012

tjuster1 wrote:

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought the reason you rarely saw AF mirror lenses was because of PDAF issues. I certainly can't see why CDAF should present any problems whatsoever. Given how darn difficult these lenses are to focus (600mm equivalent!) it sure would be nice if someone built an AF version--is it really that hard to do?

Agree. There would be enough demand if the price and size stay low. 300mm, 400mm, 500mm. Mirror lenses match the m43 idea perfectly: small lenses, possibly with some compromise in image quality if the smaller size can justify it. There is always a trade-off: in one end there are optically good lenses (like the 100-300mm) and in the other smaller and cheaper with more compromises, which would be the mirror lenses.

The cost of adding AF may be an issue to some extent. The lens is otherwise pretty cheap, so how much can the AF motor and electronics increase the price without making the lens uncompetitive? I am also wondering AF with the combination of f8, very long focal lengths, and camera+lens being hand held: how much camera shake can CDAF handle? If the CDAF sees only an image blurred by shake, it is not going to AF to anything.

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technic
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Re: Comparison to the Pana 100-300mm
In reply to LincolnB, Feb 3, 2012

LincolnB wrote:

I like the samples I've seen from the Panasonic. I doubt the Tokina will be quite as nice (lower contrast, donut-shaped bokeh). Still, it looks like it would be a useful super tele and close focus lens for travel.

no real aperture control, no AF, lower image quality than real bright tele primes without a doubt, and ugly bokeh. But yes, it could still be a nice lens for travel and casual tele shooters, if the price is right and the in-camera IS works. For the donut-bokeh, maybe in some years we can have in-camera processing that corrects this

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technic
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no AF
In reply to tpani, Feb 3, 2012

tpani wrote:

The cost of adding AF may be an issue to some extent. The lens is otherwise pretty cheap, so how much can the AF motor and electronics increase the price without making the lens uncompetitive?

from what I remember there is only one AF mirror lens, for Sony Alpha - and it's far more expensive. Probably the cost is high because you have to move some of the small internal elements (sec. mirror?) in the lens, inside the optical path that is. You can't just move a complete segment (lens unit), which makes it mechanically more complicated.

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MadsR
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Re: New Tokina m4/3 300mm f6.3 lens
In reply to Chris_in_Osaka, Feb 3, 2012

Nice, it is a tad slow though... My current 300mm is 5.6, but it is huuuuuge, like... a freight train... hauling a space shuttle... (Old Tokina for Canon FD)

If the price is right, I will get one... 600mm equiv in something that is basically pocket size, that is nice... Anyone knows if it will have electric connection? So it will tell the camera what focal length its got?

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JoannaK
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Cute! ... Teleconverter or filters (at rear?)
In reply to Chris_in_Osaka, Feb 3, 2012

I like the balanced look. Of course it's a bit big and thick, but it's 300.

I do hope it has electronics, so MF-zoom will be automatic.

Also the possibility to add 1.4 or 2.0 teleconverter would be interesting.

Any info of tripod-ring or real filters? I do hope they have thought about those.

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spacenegroes
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Re: New Tokina m4/3 300mm f6.3 lens
In reply to Chris_in_Osaka, Feb 3, 2012

what's the macro magnification for this? 0.8m min focusing distance @ 300mm seems like it could be close to 1:1 couldn't it? i tried finding a calculator online but the only one i could find didn't seem to work properly.

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tjuster1
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Re: New Tokina m4/3 300mm f6.3 lens
In reply to tpani, Feb 3, 2012

On the other hand, AF seems to work pretty well with the 100-300mm and 75-300mm. As far as the sensor is concerned (where AF is adjusted) it doesn't know how whether that image was produced by a mirror or conventional lens.

I agree about the price, but is AF really contribute that much to the cost of a lens? The 14mm costs about $250 (street); the 17mm less; the kit lenses, some of which have IS in addition to AF, sell for about $100. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I wonder how much it would actually cost to engineer in AF. Given the nature of a long telephoto lens, I'd think you could sell it at a significant premium if it could AF.

tpani wrote:

tjuster1 wrote:

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought the reason you rarely saw AF mirror lenses was because of PDAF issues. I certainly can't see why CDAF should present any problems whatsoever. Given how darn difficult these lenses are to focus (600mm equivalent!) it sure would be nice if someone built an AF version--is it really that hard to do?

Agree. There would be enough demand if the price and size stay low. 300mm, 400mm, 500mm. Mirror lenses match the m43 idea perfectly: small lenses, possibly with some compromise in image quality if the smaller size can justify it. There is always a trade-off: in one end there are optically good lenses (like the 100-300mm) and in the other smaller and cheaper with more compromises, which would be the mirror lenses.

The cost of adding AF may be an issue to some extent. The lens is otherwise pretty cheap, so how much can the AF motor and electronics increase the price without making the lens uncompetitive? I am also wondering AF with the combination of f8, very long focal lengths, and camera+lens being hand held: how much camera shake can CDAF handle? If the CDAF sees only an image blurred by shake, it is not going to AF to anything.

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Buchan-Grant
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now THAT looks interesting...
In reply to Chris_in_Osaka, Feb 3, 2012

who cares if its MF, its a compact prime 600mm lens, if the quality improves upon the Zuiko MD 75-300, I'll be down for one:)

another string to M43's bow if you ask me!
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tjuster1
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Re: New Tokina m4/3 300mm f6.3 lens
In reply to spacenegroes, Feb 3, 2012

I think the site said 1:2; still pretty darn good.

spacenegroes wrote:

what's the macro magnification for this? 0.8m min focusing distance @ 300mm seems like it could be close to 1:1 couldn't it? i tried finding a calculator online but the only one i could find didn't seem to work properly.

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CharlesB58
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Re: New Tokina m4/3 300mm f6.3 lens
In reply to tjuster1, Feb 3, 2012

tjuster1 wrote:

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought the reason you rarely saw AF mirror lenses was because of PDAF issues. I certainly can't see why CDAF should present any problems whatsoever. Given how darn difficult these lenses are to focus (600mm equivalent!) it sure would be nice if someone built an AF version--is it really that hard to do?

The lens may simply be an existing mirror design with the mount retooled for m4/3. I doubt at this time that Tokina would opt for a dedicated m4/3 design mirror lens. They probably asked the actual manufacturer to retool an existing line for m4/3 "make it silver because Olympus is doing that" and ouila, they are instantly in the m4/3 lens game.

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JoannaK
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Re: New Tokina m4/3 300mm f6.3 lens
In reply to CharlesB58, Feb 3, 2012

CharlesB58 wrote:

tjuster1 wrote:

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought the reason you rarely saw AF mirror lenses was because of PDAF issues. I certainly can't see why CDAF should present any problems whatsoever. Given how darn difficult these lenses are to focus (600mm equivalent!) it sure would be nice if someone built an AF version--is it really that hard to do?

The lens may simply be an existing mirror design with the mount retooled for m4/3. I doubt at this time that Tokina would opt for a dedicated m4/3 design mirror lens. They probably asked the actual manufacturer to retool an existing line for m4/3 "make it silver because Olympus is doing that" and ouila, they are instantly in the m4/3 lens game.

I have no idea if Tokina manufactures this lens on some other brand name, but it's not (yet) mentioned on their own web page. So it may in time appear to some other formats Besides ยต4/3, but at the moment there seem to be none.

http://www.tokinalens.com/products/tokina/index.html

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kenw
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Re: Cute! ... Teleconverter or filters (at rear?)
In reply to JoannaK, Feb 3, 2012

JoannaK wrote:

Also the possibility to add 1.4 or 2.0 teleconverter would be interesting.

Mirror lenses are usually not optically that sharp, so I wonder if it would really be any good with a teleconverter.

Any info of tripod-ring or real filters? I do hope they have thought about those.

Way too small and light for a tripod ring. 55mm thread on the front for filters though, that's nice!

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