Call me a Heretic... Fuji?

Started Jan 10, 2012 | Discussions
Archiver
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,304
Like?
Re: Another expensive digital camera...
In reply to PJ711, Jan 20, 2012

PJ711 wrote:

Jeff,

What I was saying was I could hardly call out a feature that is as trivial as having the DOF marking on a lens barrel as a reason to buy or not buy a camera. Especially since experience would surely teach you for each lens where your zone focus would be at any given aperture, and that the markings themselves are just approximations to begin with. But to each their own.

Just pointing out that the new Fuji lenses are focus by wire, not real manual focus, and have neither DoF scales nor focus markings. The only way you can see the focal distance is by looking at the display. Zone focus becomes tricky when you have to check a LCD monitor every time you want to change it.
--
Archiver - Loving Every Image Captured Always
http://www.flickr.com/photos/archiver/

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Archiver
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,304
Like?
Re: Another expensive digital camera...
In reply to Archiver, Jan 20, 2012

As far as the new Fuji goes, and where it fits in re. the M9:

On paper the X Pro 1 looks like it might a decent substitute for a M8, but I don't think it would stand in for a M9. 35mm vs. aps-c is the first thing to look at, and after shooting aps-c sensor cameras alongside 35mm, the difference in DoF at the same low apertures is obvious.

While the X-Trans CMOS with no AA filter looks good on paper, the samples are not making me jump up and down. They don't have the same kind of micro-detail that I see in the M9, the Ricoh GXR, or even the Sigma DP cameras. Mind you, we haven't seen raw samples processed by a computer yet, so I'm open to how that turns out.

The high ISO capabilities of the X Pro 1 are obvious, and way in front of the M9. The hybrid OVF looks good, as does the ergonomics. I prefer a bit of a grip on my cameras and I use a leather case with slight grip on my M9, so the grip on the Fuji looks good, too. Autofocus is a draw for me, as there have been times when I'd wished that the M9 had AF. Add in full HD video with facial tracking and the overall package seems great.

For me, though, the M9 is enough. It suits most situations that I shoot in, and for those that it doesn't, I use the Ricoh GXR, either with AF modules or the M-mount module.

I should hope that the X Pro 1 provides a decent focus peaking feature, as this is essential for focusing manual lenses in a EVF or LCD. Buying it and hoping to use M-mount lenses on it without focus peaking would be a real crap shoot (pun intended).
--
Archiver - Loving Every Image Captured Always
http://www.flickr.com/photos/archiver/

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Joe Pineapples
Senior MemberPosts: 2,205Gear list
Like?
Let me guess...
In reply to Mauro.B, Jan 20, 2012

Mauro.B wrote:

[snip]

In my opinion, M9 and M8, by far and large not being the perfect cameras", win over any current competition due to minimal "digital look" and killer micro details reproduction (ok, it's mainly the lenses, but any downstream digital processing dilutes that).

Let me guess... you own a vacuum tube amplifier and you like the "warm, analogue sound" of vinyl records...

Joe

 Joe Pineapples's gear list:Joe Pineapples's gear list
Ricoh GR
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
jacketpotato
Regular MemberPosts: 496
Like?
Re: Call me a Heretic... Fuji?
In reply to DRabbit, Feb 1, 2012

Having just seen the adverse response to photos from X-P1, and the lowered expectations of Olympus upcoming OMD & Pentax K01, Leica could have just released incremental updates to M8. Instead Leica went for the best they could. I wish other brands currently did this.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
MI6gunny
Contributing MemberPosts: 518Gear list
Like?
If its the tool you require...
In reply to DRabbit, Feb 1, 2012

then get it. Don't be sorry about it. I would say, wait a bit just to see what its like though

DRabbit wrote:

Surprised I don't see more threads about it... The XPro1... well, I have to say it looks about as close to my dream camera, at least on paper, that one can get (short of the M9 which is so out of reach for me)...

I've wanted an X100 all year but never managed to put the money together. I'm already considering what I can sell to afford the XPro1.

I suppose if you already have an M9 it might not seem all that interesting...

However, how about those of you who don't? Any thoughts? First impressions and data-sheet specs look nice to me. Form factor just about perfect. Three new fast (or relatively fast) primes to start us off is excellent. And firmware that seems to suggest compatibility with 3rd party lenses (Leica M?)...

I've gotta say, I'm kinda sold... sorta wish I had the money right this minute so I'd be ready when it went on sale... wondering if I can manage it at all...

Thoughts?

Amy
--

Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep.
Google+: http://gplus.to/DangRabbit
Twitter: http://twitter.com/DangRabbit
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/DangRabbitPhotography
PAD Project: http://www.DangRabbit.com/photography/pad
Gallery: http://www.DangRabbit.com/photography

-- hide signature --

D. Fortune

 MI6gunny's gear list:MI6gunny's gear list
Nikon D5000 Canon EOS 60D Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm f/1.8G Sigma 18-200mm F3.5-6.3 DC OS HSM +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Michael Everett
Senior MemberPosts: 1,786
Like?
Re: If its the tool you require...
In reply to MI6gunny, Feb 1, 2012

Seems we have three cameras now that challenge the M's in various ways: The X Pro 1, the Nex 7 and the Nex 5n. To me the question is what can the M9 do that these others can't, or rather what can the M9 do that makes it worth 4-10 times more? The Nex's take Leica lenses, although the 7 apparently has problems with WA RF lenses. IQ is at least comparable. All have manual focusing methods that I submit are as good as the Leica rangefinder, especially when so many Leica's have to go back to Solms for readjustment. I have several Zeiss lenses, in addition to others, and am waiting for the Nex 7 to arrive. I have used a 5 and 5n, and after those experiences I have to ask, why do I need a Leica, beyond the feel and admiration for its quality construction? To me at least that is not worth the extra thousands.

The Nex 7 and the Fuji X Pro 1 are clearly nipping at the heals of the Leica's, and the next camera war will be between the Sony and the Fuji.

Ooops, forgot, there is also the GXR. The M's are being surrounded on all fronts.

Michael

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Joe Olson
Regular MemberPosts: 126
Like?
Re: If its the tool you require...
In reply to Michael Everett, Feb 2, 2012

I would not, repeat, would not sell my M8 for the Fujii. I'm a happy boy with my Lux, scratched to the max Summarit, hazy Cron and Summitars.

Go get em guys!
Let me know how you like it when it arrives!

The viewfinders on any of these other cameras ain't gonna do it for me.
Reminds me of the Micro 4/3 craze
Lots of flower and dog shots

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
MI6gunny
Contributing MemberPosts: 518Gear list
Like?
Re: If its the tool you require...
In reply to Joe Olson, Feb 2, 2012

woohoo! I'm still waiting for my white knight set up. I can't find anything in one system is what seems to be the issue for me. You mentioned hazy cron and summarits huh? how do they look? I am interested in flaring options for a Leica system

Joe Olson wrote:

I would not, repeat, would not sell my M8 for the Fujii. I'm a happy boy with my Lux, scratched to the max Summarit, hazy Cron and Summitars.

Go get em guys!
Let me know how you like it when it arrives!

The viewfinders on any of these other cameras ain't gonna do it for me.
Reminds me of the Micro 4/3 craze
Lots of flower and dog shots

-- hide signature --

D. Fortune

 MI6gunny's gear list:MI6gunny's gear list
Nikon D5000 Canon EOS 60D Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm f/1.8G Sigma 18-200mm F3.5-6.3 DC OS HSM +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
starwolfy
Senior MemberPosts: 1,140Gear list
Like?
Re: If its the tool you require...
In reply to Michael Everett, Feb 2, 2012

Since you are wondering so much why don't you rent a Leica M and see by yourself what it has to offer you instead of thinking "Specs" without giving it a try?

 starwolfy's gear list:starwolfy's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100 Leica Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 ASPH +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
MI6gunny
Contributing MemberPosts: 518Gear list
Like?
Re: If its the tool you require...
In reply to starwolfy, Feb 2, 2012

I wish there was some place to do that up here, here I have to rent an M9 with 3 lenses for 3 months and I'll probably loose 1.5-2 of those months knowing the mail system up here just in transit there and back. I guess that will have to wait until I'm living in a major population center

starwolfy wrote:

Since you are wondering so much why don't you rent a Leica M and see by yourself what it has to offer you instead of thinking "Specs" without giving it a try?

-- hide signature --

D. Fortune

 MI6gunny's gear list:MI6gunny's gear list
Nikon D5000 Canon EOS 60D Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm f/1.8G Sigma 18-200mm F3.5-6.3 DC OS HSM +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Mauro.B
Senior MemberPosts: 2,362Gear list
Like?
It's full frame & wideangles, baby
In reply to Michael Everett, Feb 2, 2012

something that the latest wave of digiboxes sourly miss.

And if you really think that the process of (1) setting exposure, (2) opening aperture to max, (3) focus on a tiny tv screen based on "coloured contrast edges", (4) closing aperture as to get proper exposure and, finally, (5) pressing the shutter will make for a satisfactory, or quick enough, shooting experience - well, I believe we are on different wavelengths.

Leica is not for everyone. It's not a matter of money only. You need vision, care, patience and a lot of other time-consuming features.

It's McDonald vs Knickerbocker, if you are familiar with NY. It's meat, or sort of, at the end of the day. And you can spend on a Subaru Riceburner as much as a Carrera - second hand, probably, but still a Porsche.

If you don't get it, forget it.

It's not just money. Rf photography is an alien experience compared to clicking away a 5n (which, by the way, is shamefully slow in autofocusing).

Slow vs fast. Shooting technique vs relying on iso. Getting close close close to subjects vs sniping. "3D" vs "flat". Getting into action is tenths of a second vs fiddling to adapt mf to af platforms. Clear "glass view" of subject and its surroundings vs lcds periscopes blocking shadows and hiding espressions.

If you choose Leica, it's mainly because you need to shoot matter that only looks good up close. Reportage. Documentary. Hard life. No dogs, or flowers, or beggars from a distance in my book. Well, some dogs I shot too, but with V1 and right on their nose. M9 can do landscapes pretty well, but a dslr is more flexible at that.

Of course a lot of money is involved in the Leica game. An irrational amount of money for what an M9 means as an "industrial" item.

But you all seem prepared to pay irrational amounts of money to scoop Leica lenses on ebay (or ebait, as far as Leica lenses are concerned). Since, if you are not even justifying Leica lenses - well, I am wasting my time with this reply.

At the end of the day, choosing on system based on a more favourably perceived price / performance gradient is your personal choice.

Trying to rationalize your personal choices as an "algorithm" to be applied wholesale to anyone is simplistic. Allocating money is part of respective personal psychology. And freedom of choice is the nice part of life. I know rich people listening music on ipods only, and poorer people working their life to buy YBA systems.

To you the Leica is "not worth the extra thousand", to me nex 5n, nex 7 and the like are "not worth their price". How different people can be.

Best regards,

M

Michael Everett wrote:

Seems we have three cameras now that challenge the M's in various ways: The X Pro 1, the Nex 7 and the Nex 5n. To me the question is what can the M9 do that these others can't, or rather what can the M9 do that makes it worth 4-10 times more? The Nex's take Leica lenses, although the 7 apparently has problems with WA RF lenses. IQ is at least comparable. All have manual focusing methods that I submit are as good as the Leica rangefinder, especially when so many Leica's have to go back to Solms for readjustment. I have several Zeiss lenses, in addition to others, and am waiting for the Nex 7 to arrive. I have used a 5 and 5n, and after those experiences I have to ask, why do I need a Leica, beyond the feel and admiration for its quality construction? To me at least that is not worth the extra thousands.

The Nex 7 and the Fuji X Pro 1 are clearly nipping at the heals of the Leica's, and the next camera war will be between the Sony and the Fuji.

Ooops, forgot, there is also the GXR. The M's are being surrounded on all fronts.

Michael

 Mauro.B's gear list:Mauro.B's gear list
Sony RX100 Ricoh GR Nikon D800E Leica M Typ 240 Fujifilm X-T1
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
RaajS
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,169Gear list
Like?
Words of wisdom
In reply to Mauro.B, Feb 2, 2012

Mauro,

I wish a large number of the clowns that show up here and pontificate on how Canon/Nikon/Pentax/* are "better value", "better overall" etc. read and understand your words.

Thanks for writing this.

Cheers,
-raaj

Mauro.B wrote:

Trying to rationalize your personal choices as an "algorithm" to be applied wholesale to anyone is simplistic. Allocating money is part of respective personal psychology. And freedom of choice is the nice part of life. I know rich people listening music on ipods only, and poorer people working their life to buy YBA systems.

-- hide signature --

'Change is not Mandatory, you don't have to Survive...'
http://www.seekinglight.net

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keto
Regular MemberPosts: 431
Like?
Re: She's a witch! A witch!
In reply to Joe Pineapples, Feb 2, 2012

I hope it isn't a re-badged Fuji...

Well, if anything it'll be a rebadged Panasonic, but I hope it's their own thing.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
whtchocla7e
Contributing MemberPosts: 927Gear list
Like?
Re: Another expensive digital camera...
In reply to Archiver, Feb 2, 2012

Archiver wrote:

Zone focus becomes tricky when you have to check a LCD monitor every time you want to change it.

That's very interesting. So glancing at an LCD monitor is much harder than looking at the lens barrel?

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
capriebe
Junior MemberPosts: 43
Like?
Re: Another expensive digital camera...
In reply to whtchocla7e, Feb 3, 2012

harder? are you asking if your eyes will hurt less one way or the other?

think rather in terms of application, imagine a world where you have a camera at waist or chest height. now look into the viewfinder or LCD. unless you are taking photos of your shoes I don't see the benefit.

"That's very interesting. So glancing at an LCD monitor is much harder than looking at the lens barrel?"

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Michael Everett
Senior MemberPosts: 1,786
Like?
Re: It's full frame & wideangles, baby
In reply to Mauro.B, Feb 3, 2012

Mauro.B wrote:

something that the latest wave of digiboxes sourly miss.

And if you really think that the process of (1) setting exposure, (2) opening aperture to max, (3) focus on a tiny tv screen based on "coloured contrast edges", (4) closing aperture as to get proper exposure and, finally, (5) pressing the shutter will make for a satisfactory, or quick enough, shooting experience - well, I believe we are on different wavelengths.

Leica is not for everyone. It's not a matter of money only. You need vision, care, patience and a lot of other time-consuming features.

It's McDonald vs Knickerbocker, if you are familiar with NY. It's meat, or sort of, at the end of the day. And you can spend on a Subaru Riceburner as much as a Carrera - second hand, probably, but still a Porsche.

If you don't get it, forget it.

Mauro, we can agree to disagree. I have only used a Leica briefly, and my guess is you have not used a Nex 5n with the EVF or a 7. I have used the 5n extensively and am waiting for the 7. I don't find the experience of the Nex's all that different when using MF lenses. Focus peaking is fast, and the experience of using MF lenses with a focusing aid is similar. This is my point: some of the other cameras are getting close not just to the Leica but the Leica experience.

And for many people not on this forum money does matter.

We may be on different wave lengths, but chacun a son gout, or more properly à chacun son goût.

Michael

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
DRabbit
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,631Gear list
Like?
Re: If its the tool you require...
In reply to Joe Olson, Feb 3, 2012

Joe Olson wrote:

I would not, repeat, would not sell my M8 for the Fujii. I'm a happy boy with my Lux, scratched to the max Summarit, hazy Cron and Summitars.

I wouldn't either. That was never an option

Amy
--

Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep.
Google+: http://gplus.to/DangRabbit
Twitter: http://twitter.com/DangRabbit
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/DangRabbitPhotography
PAD Project: http://www.DangRabbit.com/photography/pad
Gallery: http://www.DangRabbit.com/photography

 DRabbit's gear list:DRabbit's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100 Leica M8 Pentax K-5 Olympus PEN E-PM1 Fujifilm X-E1 +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Mauro.B
Senior MemberPosts: 2,362Gear list
Like?
Agreed... [nt]
In reply to Michael Everett, Feb 3, 2012
 Mauro.B's gear list:Mauro.B's gear list
Sony RX100 Ricoh GR Nikon D800E Leica M Typ 240 Fujifilm X-T1
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads