Call me a Heretic... Fuji?

Started Jan 10, 2012 | Discussions
DRabbit
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Call me a Heretic... Fuji?
Jan 10, 2012

Surprised I don't see more threads about it... The XPro1... well, I have to say it looks about as close to my dream camera, at least on paper, that one can get (short of the M9 which is so out of reach for me)...

I've wanted an X100 all year but never managed to put the money together. I'm already considering what I can sell to afford the XPro1.

I suppose if you already have an M9 it might not seem all that interesting...

However, how about those of you who don't? Any thoughts? First impressions and data-sheet specs look nice to me. Form factor just about perfect. Three new fast (or relatively fast) primes to start us off is excellent. And firmware that seems to suggest compatibility with 3rd party lenses (Leica M?)...

I've gotta say, I'm kinda sold... sorta wish I had the money right this minute so I'd be ready when it went on sale... wondering if I can manage it at all...

Thoughts?

Amy
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Dan Nikon
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Re: Call me a Heretic... Fuji?
In reply to DRabbit, Jan 10, 2012

As both a Leica M user and an X100 user, I am very interested. I have had an X100 since May and it is by far my favorite digital camera that I have used in the past 18 years, that would be including the M9.

A buddy of mine who shoots Canon 5D-II's and Hasselblad HD-40 on super high end weddings sold off all his M film gear about 4 years ago, never replaced it. Let's just say he has already pre-ordered the whole kit.

I am waiting to see what they do in terms of a 35mm equivalent and how loud the shutter is compared to the near silent X100....but we'll see if I can hold out, I have a feeling this is going to be a Leica reportage style game changer...

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stevielee
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Re: Call me a Heretic... Fuji?
In reply to DRabbit, Jan 10, 2012

DRabbit wrote:

Surprised I don't see more threads about it... The XPro1... well, I have to say it looks about as close to my dream camera, at least on paper, that one can get (short of the M9 which is so out of reach for me)...

I've wanted an X100 all year but never managed to put the money together. I'm already considering what I can sell to afford the XPro1.

I suppose if you already have an M9 it might not seem all that interesting...

However, how about those of you who don't? Any thoughts? First impressions and data-sheet specs look nice to me. Form factor just about perfect. Three new fast (or relatively fast) primes to start us off is excellent. And firmware that seems to suggest compatibility with 3rd party lenses (Leica M?)...

I've gotta say, I'm kinda sold... sorta wish I had the money right this minute so I'd be ready when it went on sale... wondering if I can manage it at all...

Thoughts?

Amy

SAY IT ISN'T SO!!!!

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DRabbit
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Re: Call me a Heretic... Fuji?
In reply to stevielee, Jan 10, 2012

stevielee wrote:

SAY IT ISN'T SO!!!!

LOL... just to be clear, I'll never sell my M8.

Amy
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stevielee
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Re: Call me a Heretic... Fuji?
In reply to DRabbit, Jan 10, 2012

DRabbit wrote:

stevielee wrote:

SAY IT ISN'T SO!!!!

LOL... just to be clear, I'll never sell my M8.

Amy
-

Clear!

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Godfrey
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Re: Call me a Heretic... Fuji?
In reply to DRabbit, Jan 10, 2012

While I've not been particularly enamored of the X100 and X10, there's no question to me that Fuji can make some fine performing cameras.

But ... My lens kit is complete and I'm not buying another lens kit. I don't want focus by wire, I'm not interested in autofocus, I don't need the six or seven dozen other features and modes that the Fuji has.

What I want is simplicity. The more I look at the Fuji, the more I'm convinced that I must buy an M9.

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jacketpotato
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Re: Call me a Heretic... Fuji?
In reply to DRabbit, Jan 10, 2012

I must say it does seem a fine camera.
I can imagine it will be rather nice to hold and photo.

They say it will have an Mmount adapter and other adapters (Contax G? Leica screw?).

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MrLaki
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Re: Call me a Heretic... Fuji?
In reply to DRabbit, Jan 10, 2012

it looks like a interesting camera. I see it more as an addition to my cameras, rather than a replacement for any of them.

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steveleicaman
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Re: Call me a Heretic... Fuji?
In reply to DRabbit, Jan 10, 2012

I think it's a fantastic prospect. I love the colours my X100 produces. If the IQ matches the M9, I wouldn't hesitate. But the jungle drums say Leica is up to something similar this year....

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Ian Matthew
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Re: Call me a Heretic... Fuji?
In reply to steveleicaman, Jan 10, 2012

I love my m9 and the leica lenses. i love as "she" performs and her simplicity of use. The only thing that I am not happy about, is the low light shooting. I wish the m9 could produce beautiful, velvet images above 1000ISO. I am the kind of guy who wants only one camera. I want to have one camera and I want to carry this camera all the time with me. And this camera the last year and a half is m9. But lately the nex7, nex5n and now the x1 pro make me wonder how much easier and better could be the low light photography - which I really love -with them and my leica lenses...

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Joe Pineapples
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In reply to DRabbit, Jan 10, 2012

She turned me into a newt!

A newt?

Well... I got better...

Sorry - watched "The Holy Grail" with the kids last night. But, yeah, it does push my buttons, no doubt about it. Fuji is a real camera company: they understand OVFs, they make excellent lenses, and they have the resources to make real innovations. When can we expect Leica's "digital CL"? I hope it isn't a re-badged Fuji...

Joe

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jeff hladun
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Re: Call me a Heretic... Fuji?
In reply to Ian Matthew, Jan 10, 2012

There is a sincere effort on Fuji's part to realize the rangefinder experience here. The three lens combination of 28, 50 and 90mm is the perfect set-up for me; I appreciate Fuji's attempt to incorporate some sort of optical viewfinder, too. But the lack of depth of field markings on the lenses is the deal breaker for me. I prefer to know the field of focus before I bring the camera up to my eye for certain spontaneous situations. Having to figure out where the image is sharp by using the electronic viewfinder is just too slow at times. I also have the same problem with autofocus DSLR lenses in this regard.

The crop factor of 1.5x means a longer DoF within the image. This I appreciate as I'm not so much a bokeh fan, but as so many rangefinder users love this aspect of the form, it too makes the X-Pro relatively lacking. On the other hand it should have better low-light performance at its higher ISO levels than the M8 and maybe the M9. There again, I'm not a big fan of the high-ISO, low-light photography (I prefer using flash), but this may be of interest to anyone who feels capable of finally taking an interesting image in low-light! I'll just continue to bring along my own light, thank you very much.

Amy, I'm curious; you already have the M8 - what is it about the X-Pro that would make you want to add it to your kit?

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Mauro.B
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Another expensive digital camera...
In reply to DRabbit, Jan 10, 2012

This new Fuji is very interesting on paper, except for the $ 3200 - 3400 area expected full kit price.

I will wait to check actual autofocus speed (where the X100 is painfully lacking), in any lighting conditions. The "manual by-wire focus" means that the X Pro 1 works autofocus all the time (manual just replacing fingers for motor), so AF speed, precision and consistency will be critical in real world X Pro 1 usage.

Fuji-disseminated images like this "

" do not seem promising on "digital look", which given X Pro 1's price and lack of AA filter should be minimal.

In my opinion, M9 and M8, by far and large not being the perfect cameras", win over any current competition due to minimal "digital look" and killer micro details reproduction (ok, it's mainly the lenses, but any downstream digital processing dilutes that).

I do not like to sound negative, but having already been close to burn my fingers with the X100 (which did not fit any of my shooting styles), I will look forward for early adopters feedback before making any judgement on another expensive digital system.

Just an early opinion, though.

Best regards,

M

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PJ711
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Re: Another expensive digital camera...
In reply to Mauro.B, Jan 10, 2012

I have to say it looks perfect to me. I am working on a couple long-term projects, and having a perfectly fine time with the M4/3 gear, which if anyone is really honest, produces image quality that is superb, but.......this looks like a reincarnation of the perfect go-around kit.

To the poster who thinks lack of DOF markings is a "deal-breaker"- respectfully, really? You can't estimate in your mind what effect f/8 or f/5.6 has on apparent sharpness?

The Fuji viewfinder will show you DOF on a bar at the bottom of the image anyways. As you change apertures with your left hand the DOF markings in white will change as you compose. That's how the x100 works.

The interesting thing to me will be how the AF is implemented, whether the buffer and processor are fast, and the feel of the controls. If those are well done, I have no doubt this will be a fantastic camera.

(I say this respectfully, but the M9 is an anachronism, IMO. It is too slow for professional use. Great for walkabout shots, great files up to a point, but compared to a modern reportage camera for when you need to deliver files to a client, useless. That's probably why I haven't seen one ever in field use*)

  • ie, not hanging from the neck of a tourist, mostly in Asia.

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HuntingSand
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Amy...
In reply to DRabbit, Jan 10, 2012

The Fuji ( body ) will give you three things the Leica can't, or will only in a limited capacity:
1. Real low light shooting capability (if it matters to you)
2. In-camera Fuji color emulations (Astia, Velvia, etc.)
3. Better dynamic range (dramatically better I would say)
4. Very natural looking skin tones
5. JPGs which are straightaway usable.
Ok, that's actually five...

I have (and still use) the 6MP S5 Pro, and had various little Fuji snappers over the years, so the points I am making are not based on opinion, but on experience.

Now, what the Fuji lenses will give you over the Leica, that's a different story. While the Fujinons are not shabby lenses (they still produce them for Hassy), as an M9 owner with various Leica and Zeiss lenses, I know where I stand on that question.

As an aside, I tried the Ricoh GXR with the M-mount over an extended weekend recently, and found the Zeiss or Leica 28mm on APS-C amazingly useful as a walkabout combo. I didn't care about having a little screen crackling and poking (make that: peaking) in my eye, I prefer a more relaxed and natural way of seeing what happens in front of me, but there is enough momentum on the whole EVF development front that it'll soon be a standard way of seeing, aiming, focusing, capturing. I am not sure Leica is part of that R&D front, though.

Thomas

DRabbit wrote:

Surprised I don't see more threads about it... The XPro1... well, I have to say it looks about as close to my dream camera, at least on paper, that one can get (short of the M9 which is so out of reach for me)...

I've wanted an X100 all year but never managed to put the money together. I'm already considering what I can sell to afford the XPro1.

I suppose if you already have an M9 it might not seem all that interesting...

However, how about those of you who don't? Any thoughts? First impressions and data-sheet specs look nice to me. Form factor just about perfect. Three new fast (or relatively fast) primes to start us off is excellent. And firmware that seems to suggest compatibility with 3rd party lenses (Leica M?)...

I've gotta say, I'm kinda sold... sorta wish I had the money right this minute so I'd be ready when it went on sale... wondering if I can manage it at all...

Thoughts?

Amy
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Pointcolville
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In reply to HuntingSand, Jan 10, 2012

Suddenly we have multiple platforms for Leica glass. For the the simplicity and ergonomics of Leica controls, Ms are still the only game in town, but the new platforms offer other advantages. Unfortunately those advantages aren't all collected on in a single body.

Sony's focus peaking is a huge leg up for successfully adapting manual focus lenses to the Nex platform - but the system feels like consumer gadgets, not cameras.

In-camera stabilization let's me shoot an Olympus PEN in the dark, where my 75mm Summilux becomes a 150mm F1.4 lens - but the sensor is small.

The X100 makes nice files but I never warmed to it. Couldn't pick it up and start shooting. Had ti fiddle first, toggle the display between multiple modes, wonder if it would wake up after its latest nap.

The Pro looks cool, but lacks focus peaking and stabilization. If it offers ergonomics, then it will be competitive. Hopefully the X100 genes won't transfer.

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Michel Pont
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Re: Another expensive digital camera...
In reply to PJ711, Jan 10, 2012

Hello,

I think the person you replied to meant that he likes to see the markings on his lens because he can set the DOF more discretly.

For him the problem is that to do such operation on the X100, and probably this new body too, you have to put the camera to your eye to make such a change. Puting your camera to your eye means taking a picture for people around you: that is the problem.

Talking abour personal experience, I do understand him. I also feel really confortable setting my focus scale directly on the lens depending on the DOF I want, discretly, while walking and doing streetshooting.

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richygm
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Re: Call me a Heretic... Fuji?
In reply to DRabbit, Jan 10, 2012

I suppose what we've got here is a digital Contax G1/G2. The G2 was my dream camera (I've never liked mirrors) until digital seemed the way to go. I'm interested.

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Michel Pont
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Re: Amy...
In reply to HuntingSand, Jan 10, 2012

Hello,

You pointed here something interesting.

For me, the biggest advantage of a Leica M body is just the fact that its amazing OVF is coupled with M lenses.

In my opinion, One of the biggest appeals which makes the Leica experience so unique nowadays is the fact that there is this coupled OVF which is just unique.

This new Fuji can be as good as it seems, it will not provide the focusing experience a Leica M can provide me with my current set up of lenses. That is why it is impossible to consider this Fuji as a main body (for me) because as you said:

  • The IQ on my M is largely sufficient for my photographic purpose and I am satisfied with it

  • I do not require such high Isos for my work

But, as backup or a camera for low light situations, like in the Pub, with family and friends, this camera could be a big plus, especially regarding the nice skin tones the X100 gives as a result.

I am talking about the X100 now because, in fact, I have difficulties chosing this new Fuji over the current X100 to do what I described above.

The X100 is smaller, lighter, has a bright lens, really good overal IQ and Iso and amazing skin tones.

I am now wondering to whom this new Fuji would appeal except people who do not own a M yet, nor a X100?

What do you think?

Kind regards,

Michel

(and I apologize for my poor english. It is sometimes hard to build clear explanations to express myself as I am not native speaker)

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jeff hladun
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Re: Another expensive digital camera...
In reply to PJ711, Jan 10, 2012

PJ711 wrote:

To the poster who thinks lack of DOF markings is a "deal-breaker"- respectfully, really? You can't estimate in your mind what effect f/8 or f/5.6 has on apparent sharpness?

The Fuji viewfinder will show you DOF on a bar at the bottom of the image anyways. As you change apertures with your left hand the DOF markings in white will change as you compose. That's how the x100 works.

(I say this respectfully, but the M9 is an anachronism, IMO. It is too slow for professional use. Great for walkabout shots, great files up to a point, but compared to a modern reportage camera for when you need to deliver files to a client, useless. That's probably why I haven't seen one ever in field use*)

Take a look at the DoF markings on any rangefinder lens, be it Leica, Zeiss, or Voigtlander. Then compare them to the prime auto-focus lenses of Nikon or Canon. There is a reason these manual focus lenses impart so much information to the photographer. For example, if my 28mm lens (my favourite and most used) tells me that at a focus distance of 6 feet, everything will be sharp between the distances of 4 feet and 12 feet at f/8, it really is beyond me to remember that at f/5.6 the in-focus plane is 4.5 feet to 10 feet. I know that to be the case in theory, but I'm not familiar enough with the science of optics to memorize that.

As I said before, the ability to pre-set the lens before raising it to my eyes is something the x-Pro cannot do. I realize that one can pre-set a range beforehand in the Fuji, but what happens if the range changes ever so slightly? One then has to raise the camera to the eye, re-focus, and probably miss a shot.

This is something that I need to control in my style of shooting. This is not to say this is something I do in actuality all the time. It is also something most photographers ever need to do. However, for practising spontaneous close-up street photography - itself a very limited niche in photography - the rangefinder simply excels at this.

I'll agree up to a point that other camera systems are better suited at other styles of photography, and that many people who have purchased the rangefinder don't use it to their full advantage. As far as what pros use in the field, if you have a look at the work of photo-journalists employed by Magnum, VII, Vu and Panos, you'll see many of their photographers using rangefinders for their work. For the record though, what camera a photographer uses is of little importance to me. I look beyond the equipment and at their work, their effort, and their results.
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