Canon Pro9500 Mk-II - crappy matte results - help please !

Started Jan 8, 2012 | Discussions
dhein
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Canon Pro9500 Mk-II - crappy matte results - help please !
Jan 8, 2012

Hi,

I've been playing with my new Pro9500 for a month of so now. However for the life of me I just can't get decent matte prints. They are totally flat & lifeless. I've had great results with Ilford Galerie Smooth Pearl & Gloss (& the Canon Gloss). But testing a sample pack of Hahnemuhle matte papers with their recommended ICC profiles - they all look flat. I've double & triple checked that all my ICC profile & print settings are correct, and that I'm printing on the correct side of the sheet.

As a reference, I have several matte prints from my previous Epson 1290 - and none of these come close. Blacks are basically dark grey.

I hear lots of people comment of the lovely results they get from matte prints on this machine, but I must be missing something.

Any ideas or suggestions would be much appreciated.

I've attached a photo to provide some reference (pardon the quality, snapped with my iPhone -

Cheers
David

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Apotheker
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Did you choose the matte black for printing ???
In reply to dhein, Jan 8, 2012

To me you are using the photo black paper setting on your paper. You should definitely choose the matte paper setting and also sure the matte black setting is active.
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dhein
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Re: Did you choose the matte black for printing ???
In reply to Apotheker, Jan 8, 2012

Interesting point - how do I set that manually ? I just assumed by selected Matte Paper in the Canon driver that it would automatically use the relevant cartridge.

Apotheker wrote:

To me you are using the photo black paper setting on your paper. You should definitely choose the matte paper setting and also sure the matte black setting is active.
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tshapiro
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Re: Did you choose the matte black for printing ???
In reply to dhein, Jan 8, 2012

This is what I do. it may or may not work for you.

Two ways to go.

1) Let the printer manage the colors. in the print driver choose Premium Matte or Photo Rag. Do not choose Other Fine Art or generic Matte Paper.

2) Use a profile, but only use the Canon profile that came with the printer that most matches the paper you are using Don't use third party profiles even they are the brand of the paper. So, if you are using Hahnemuhle Rag paper, use Canon Photo Rag Profile and the Photo Rag selection in the driver.

Let us know if this helps.

Tim

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dhein
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Re: Did you choose the matte black for printing ???
In reply to tshapiro, Jan 8, 2012

Thanks Tim,

Well the good news is .. item 1 did the trick. Overriding Photoshop colour management & letting the printer manage it (& using the canon photorag setting in driver) produced a much better print. I can't say it's any punchier than the Epson 1290 reference I'm comparing it with, but definately on par - and this printer matches the colours much better than the Epson.

I guess the bad news (for me anyway) is having to use two different workflows. It didn't even occur to me to override the photoshop colour management setting & seems weird that I can't get this machine to produce consistant results using Photoshop colour management which seems to be the defacto standard that professionals recommend.

Again, thanks for you help.

(I've attached another photograph of the print outs as comparison. The older washed out version using photoshop colour management above is quite easy to see. Infact although not obvious in this photo, the blacks are much lighter too.)

David
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tshapiro
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Re: Did you choose the matte black for printing ???
In reply to dhein, Jan 8, 2012

I've found that I have to experiment alot to make the prints work consistent.

Another option is to use the Canon Easy Print PRO that typically comes with the 9000/9500.

Or, in the Mac, driver, I can fiddle with intensity and contrast a bit to get more vibrant Matte photos.

Best,

tim

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tjenvy
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Re: Did you choose the matte black for printing ???
In reply to tshapiro, Apr 28, 2013

I know this is a very old thread but I spent days workin on a similar issue.  After 60 prints and exhaustive research here is what I found out. (confirmed by engineers @ cannon)

When choosing matte photo paper in the print box, the printer uses PHOTO black ink.  The ONLY way to get MATTE black in to work is to use one of cannons "fine art" paper selections.  I printed test prints on each setting using cannons color profiles each time using matte once and photo rag once.  Then used the manufacturers for photo rag and matte photo paper.

When everything was said ad done, the images with their 35mm margin had deep deep blacks and once printed full page using matte photo paper setting, blacks were black but dull as all get out.  Try it yourself.  I am glad I spent the money on the cartridges to figure this out.  People were complaining that the matte photos looked dull.

The engineers at canon (what a PITA they were to get to from the customer service reps) confirmed that the driver ONLY uses matte black ink when choosing a fine art paper drop down in the print box.

PS the only way to get the printer to use the "gray" ink is to tick "Grayscale" in the box before printing, otherwise uses black and other colors to create grays.

Dont take my word for it, try it yourself.  take a black image in a small box, print once with matte photo paper and then again with photo rag.  Use the same paper both times and same color profile.  You will see a HUGE diference!

Hope I could help anyone who stumbles upon this in the future.

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Petruska
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Did you turn off color management...
In reply to dhein, Apr 28, 2013

dhein wrote:

Thanks Tim,

Well the good news is .. item 1 did the trick. Overriding Photoshop colour management & letting the printer manage it (& using the canon photorag setting in driver) produced a much better print. I can't say it's any punchier than the Epson 1290 reference I'm comparing it with, but definately on par - and this printer matches the colours much better than the Epson.

I guess the bad news (for me anyway) is having to use two different workflows. It didn't even occur to me to override the photoshop colour management setting & seems weird that I can't get this machine to produce consistant results using Photoshop colour management which seems to be the defacto standard that professionals recommend.

Again, thanks for you help.

(I've attached another photograph of the print outs as comparison. The older washed out version using photoshop colour management above is quite easy to see. Infact although not obvious in this photo, the blacks are much lighter too.)

David
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http://www.davidhein.com

in the printer driver when you let Photoshp mange colors and select a Canon ICC profile?

Did you also select the matte paper for Media in the printer driver to for the MK black to be used when using the Canon ICC profiles and let PS manage colors?

You should get similar print results when allowing either the printer to manage colors in PS, or let PS manage colors.  If not then your settings are off.

Bob P.

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xrdbear
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Re: Did you choose the matte black for printing ???
In reply to tjenvy, Apr 28, 2013

tjenvy wrote:

I know this is a very old thread but I spent days workin on a similar issue.  After 60 prints and exhaustive research here is what I found out. (confirmed by engineers @ cannon)

When choosing matte photo paper in the print box, the printer uses PHOTO black ink.  The ONLY way to get MATTE black in to work is to use one of cannons "fine art" paper selections.  I printed test prints on each setting using cannons color profiles each time using matte once and photo rag once.  Then used the manufacturers for photo rag and matte photo paper.

When everything was said ad done, the images with their 35mm margin had deep deep blacks and once printed full page using matte photo paper setting, blacks were black but dull as all get out.  Try it yourself.  I am glad I spent the money on the cartridges to figure this out.  People were complaining that the matte photos looked dull.

The engineers at canon (what a PITA they were to get to from the customer service reps) confirmed that the driver ONLY uses matte black ink when choosing a fine art paper drop down in the print box.

PS the only way to get the printer to use the "gray" ink is to tick "Grayscale" in the box before printing, otherwise uses black and other colors to create grays.

Dont take my word for it, try it yourself.  take a black image in a small box, print once with matte photo paper and then again with photo rag.  Use the same paper both times and same color profile.  You will see a HUGE diference!

Hope I could help anyone who stumbles upon this in the future.

Thanks for all that. I'm sure some Canon users will find it quite enlightening.

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Brian
Fine Art Print sales of the Isle of Skye at:
http://www.eyeofskye.co.uk/

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jtoolman
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Re: Did you choose the matte black for printing ???
In reply to tjenvy, Apr 29, 2013

tjenvy wrote:

I know this is a very old thread but I spent days workin on a similar issue.  After 60 prints and exhaustive research here is what I found out. (confirmed by engineers @ cannon)

When choosing matte photo paper in the print box, the printer uses PHOTO black ink.  The ONLY way to get MATTE black in to work is to use one of cannons "fine art" paper selections.  I printed test prints on each setting using cannons color profiles each time using matte once and photo rag once.  Then used the manufacturers for photo rag and matte photo paper.

When everything was said ad done, the images with their 35mm margin had deep deep blacks and once printed full page using matte photo paper setting, blacks were black but dull as all get out.  Try it yourself.  I am glad I spent the money on the cartridges to figure this out.  People were complaining that the matte photos looked dull.

The engineers at canon (what a PITA they were to get to from the customer service reps) confirmed that the driver ONLY uses matte black ink when choosing a fine art paper drop down in the print box.

PS the only way to get the printer to use the "gray" ink is to tick "Grayscale" in the box before printing, otherwise uses black and other colors to create grays.

Dont take my word for it, try it yourself.  take a black image in a small box, print once with matte photo paper and then again with photo rag.  Use the same paper both times and same color profile.  You will see a HUGE diference!

Hope I could help anyone who stumbles upon this in the future.

I just performed that experiment and can concur that it is definitely true.

The B&W image I printed with Matte as the paper choice has much lighter and weaker blacks and dark grays than the one printed with Photo Rag as the paper choice. I used Grayscale choice to utilize the Gray ink and just used Staples Matte Paper.

Then I printed A richly saturated image of a lighthouse during a sunset using Photo Rag as the paper choice and simply let Canon driver control color. Result were excellent color and richness with good saturation and deep blacks and pretty closely matched my Color Munki calibrated monitor version of the image. Inks were Image Specialists from Precision Colors and I printed out of Qimage Ultimate 2013.

Joe

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