Sigma SD1 and Sinar MF 33 megapixels compared

Started Jan 8, 2012 | Discussions
Park70
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Sigma SD1 and Sinar MF 33 megapixels compared
Jan 8, 2012

Both cameras output was up sized to an equal size, 80 cm X 52 cm @ 300 dpi
Sinar Image size 169 mb the Sigma 168.8 mb.

Then reduced 72 dpi as shown.

They were all taken at f11, the Sinar lens is a 50 mm Schneider-kreuznach.
The Sigma a 18 - 50 f2.8 set at 26 mm to equal the view of the Sinar.
On a tripod at the same position.

Have tried to keep the crops the same size.

Sigma SD1
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jrdigitalart
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Firstly ...
In reply to Park70, Jan 8, 2012

... I'm not an SD1 fan, but what's the point of this? Waste of time and effort to me.

Not having been a witness to the shoot, I cannot relate to it. Much more relevance would have been created If the photographer had had the nous to include a colour target in each shot.

Then there is the laughable "web ready" jpg compression etc, etc and it's an obvious "non-event".

Just saying.

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rick decker
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Re: Sigma SD1 and Sinar MF 33 megapixels compared
In reply to Park70, Jan 8, 2012

Greens are weak and the reds are blown on the Sigma. It really needs more PP.

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stanislaw stitchanow
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Sinar is 3D, Sigma is flat
In reply to Park70, Jan 8, 2012

both cameras have color problems it seems (Sigma to reddish, Sinar to greenish) but the Sinar has a much more 3D feeling because of the much shallower DoF.

But the comparison is not really fair as the Schneider Kreuznach might be a better lens than anything Sigma has ever made.
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Roland Karlsson
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Re: Sinar is 3D, Sigma is flat
In reply to stanislaw stitchanow, Jan 8, 2012

stanislaw stitchanow wrote:

But the comparison is not really fair as the Schneider Kreuznach might be a better lens than anything Sigma has ever made.

Ahhhhhh ... but the available lenses is a part of the system, and SD1 is a system camera.

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AdamT
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Re: Sigma SD1 and Sinar MF 33 megapixels compared
In reply to Park70, Jan 8, 2012

I prefer the SD1 colour - the rendering from the Sinar reminds me of Sony's Digicams of the early 2000s with unrealistic Neon greens

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RKGoth
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Re: Sinar is 3D, Sigma is flat
In reply to Roland Karlsson, Jan 8, 2012

Roland Karlsson wrote:

stanislaw stitchanow wrote:

But the comparison is not really fair as the Schneider Kreuznach might be a better lens than anything Sigma has ever made.

Ahhhhhh ... but the available lenses is a part of the system, and SD1 is a system camera.

Which is why when I get time, I'm putting a K-adaptor on my Cambo system. I don't have the best glass, but I have a couple of lenses. Works well with the D7000

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D Cox
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Re: Sigma SD1 and Sinar MF 33 megapixels compared
In reply to rick decker, Jan 8, 2012

rick decker wrote:

Greens are weak and the reds are blown on the Sigma. It really needs more PP.

The SD1 shot has a slight magenta cast, like most SD1 pictures. I think this is a software problem.

The Sinar shot has a green cast.

After all the upsizing, downsizing, conversion to JPG, and viewing on a monitor rather than a print - nothing can be said about resolution or sharpness.

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DaSigmaGuy
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Re: Sigma SD1 and Sinar MF 33 megapixels compared
In reply to Park70, Jan 8, 2012

Park70 wrote:

Both cameras output was up sized to an equal size, 80 cm X 52 cm @ 300 dpi
Sinar Image size 169 mb the Sigma 168.8 mb.

Then reduced 72 dpi as shown.

They were all taken at f11, the Sinar lens is a 50 mm Schneider-kreuznach.
The Sigma a 18 - 50 f2.8 set at 26 mm to equal the view of the Sinar.
On a tripod at the same position.

Have tried to keep the crops the same size.

Its obvious a 26mm lens is going to give a much deeper DOF than a 50mm lens at the same aperture so I really dont see the point of mentioning the DOF in your comparison?

As for the colours...The SD1 has far too much red and hardly any green and the Sinar has far too much green and hardly any red...They should have been processsed to keep the colours as close to identical as possible, as this comparison should really just be comparing their resolution.

BTW, your comparing a zoom with a prime so that gives the Sinar a lens quality advantage.
You should try using a sharper 28mm prime on the SD1.

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AdamT
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Re: Sigma SD1 and Sinar MF 33 megapixels compared
In reply to DaSigmaGuy, Jan 8, 2012

You should try using a sharper 28mm prime on the SD1.

Most 28mm Primes which most people see are less than "Prime Sharp" the old original "K" (not "M") Pentax Super MC 28mm F3.5 was about as good as they get , better than any of the F2.8s and far better than that awful plastic bucket AF F1.8 thing Sigma make now .

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brittonx
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Re: Sigma SD1 and Sinar MF 33 megapixels compared
In reply to Park70, Jan 8, 2012

Any chance of getting the raw files for both of these?
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rtoml321
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Re: Sigma SD1 and Sinar MF 33 megapixels compared
In reply to Park70, Jan 8, 2012

Despite the color and WB difference, the SD1 IQ edges out the Sinar MF to me.
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nick_webster
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Not a very valid comparison
In reply to Park70, Jan 8, 2012

Colours are not very good for either, framing is different, DOF is different. After those disparities we have the upsize, downsize and compression for web viewing ...

I think it's difficult to draw any conclusions from this test, sorry to say,

Nick

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DaSigmaGuy
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Re: Sigma SD1 and Sinar MF 33 megapixels compared
In reply to AdamT, Jan 8, 2012

AdamT wrote:

You should try using a sharper 28mm prime on the SD1.

Most 28mm Primes which most people see are less than "Prime Sharp" the old original "K" (not "M") Pentax Super MC 28mm F3.5 was about as good as they get , better than any of the F2.8s and far better than that awful plastic bucket AF F1.8 thing Sigma make now .

The Carl Zeiss 28mm f2.8 Distagon T* is about as sharp as it gets at 28mm...Thats why I use one

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Park70
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Re: Sigma SD1 and Sinar MF 33 megapixels compared
In reply to brittonx, Jan 8, 2012

brittonx wrote:

Any chance of getting the raw files for both of these?
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Hello Britton

I will take it again with more coloured flowers in the frame and get the raw files to you with YouSendit.

The colour of both cameras were set to their standard colour setting and not changed
to try and match them.

The Sinar has to be converted with their own software to DNG which has no option for changing any part of the file.

It was then converted in Silkypix Studio Pro 5 English at camera standard.

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Park70
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Re: Sigma SD1 and Sinar MF 33_New Photos more colour
In reply to Park70, Jan 9, 2012

Sigma 50mm f1.4 lens, Sinar Schneider Xenotar 80 mm f2.8

Have added a range of colours in photo

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brittonx
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Re: Sigma SD1 and Sinar MF 33 megapixels compared
In reply to Park70, Jan 9, 2012

Park70 wrote:

brittonx wrote:

Any chance of getting the raw files for both of these?
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Hello Britton

I will take it again with more coloured flowers in the frame and get the raw files to you with YouSendit.

The colour of both cameras were set to their standard colour setting and not changed
to try and match them.

The Sinar has to be converted with their own software to DNG which has no option for changing any part of the file.

It was then converted in Silkypix Studio Pro 5 English at camera standard.

Thank you for taking the time to do the additional versions.

It looks like both the Sinar and SD1 shots are over exposed by at least one stop. Direct-sunlight shots with flowers or things like poinsettias are very tricky to meter and capture. The petals and poinsettia red parts reflect much more of the sun's energy than tor other parts of the scene. This causes those parts of the scene to get blown out.

I can recover the blown out parts but then the rest of the scene comes out too dark. I could create multiple versions off of the RAW and HDR it but that isn't the purpose here.

Usually, with petal like parts in a direct-sunlight scene, I will shoot at -1.0 EV in order to give more latitude in getting good image output.

Any chance of getting one more set like the most recent pair but with -1.0 EV on both the Sinar and SD1?

I'm with the others in that I'm not sure we are proving anything here. It is more of a curiosity to see how both systems are handling the scene.

Thanks!

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commiebiker
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Re: Sigma SD1 and Sinar MF 33 megapixels compared
In reply to Park70, Jan 9, 2012

from Thom Hogan:

What gives? Why are we getting more amateur-oriented equipment that pushes the pixel counts up and up, but pro gear is being more modest?

Because enthusiasts are asking for it, mostly. I suspect that it is a combination of factors that come into play:

Crop happy. Amateurs tend not to get the image right at acquisition. They'll take the image and hope they can crop it to something satisfactory.

Overly ambitious. Enthusiasts think that if they take a great picture every once in awhile and can blow it up to a 36" print they can wave in their friends' faces, that their friends will now think they "professional."

Driven by marketing. 24 is better than 16, 36 is better than 18. More is always better in the marketing world, which apparently doesn't play much golf.

Obsession with testing. While I advocate everyone, even pros, test their equipment to know what it can and can't do, the enthusiast crowd has spawned sites and communities where testing is pretty much the sole pursuit. They get caught up in the details and miss the big picture.

Technology always moves on. This is related to some of the previous points, but there's an underlying sense that products that don't increase key metrics are somehow behind the technology curve. I thought the D3/D700 disproved that with their 12mp sensor magic, but the thought lives on in a lot of users.

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DaSigmaGuy
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Re: Sigma SD1 and Sinar MF 33_New Photos more colour
In reply to Park70, Jan 9, 2012

Park70 wrote:

Sigma 50mm f1.4 lens, Sinar Schneider Xenotar 80 mm f2.8

Have added a range of colours in photo

Thats very odd...I assume you chose those focal lengths to try and keep the framing identical on both, but it appears to have gone horribly wrong!

You need to recalculate the focal length relationship of the SD1 to the Sinar as its gone wrong somewhere.

Or have you simply moved the Sinar closer to the subject than the SD1, for some unknown reason?

Assuming the distance to subject was identical then perhaps you need to use the same focal length on both to keep the framing identical?

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nick_webster
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I've asked the same thing myself
In reply to commiebiker, Jan 9, 2012

Such as here : http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1027&message=38897794

Almost everyone - myself included - would see far more benefit for their photography by spending time and money taking courses or getting out and taking photos, seeing where they are going wrong and correcting their own faults, than they would by buying new gear

NIck

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