DP2 Vs Fuji X10 at ISO 100, HD

Started Jan 7, 2012 | Discussions
Tom Schum
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DP2 Vs Fuji X10 at ISO 100, HD
Jan 7, 2012

At ISO 100, after downsizing both images to HD resolution, the DP2 beats the Fuji X10 in image quality and detail and has more pleasing colors.
However, the smaller-sensor Fuji X10 comes surprisingly close.

The DP2 raw file was processed using SPP 5.1 and the resultant same-size jpeg was processed further in Photoshop Elements 9. The Fuji jpeg was processed only in Photoshop Elements 9. Since I did not use the Fuji raw file, this is not the world's best and most scientific comparison. Also, I compared DP2 same-size to DP2 double-size jpegs and picked same-size as best overall when downsized to HD (this is why it is used here).

I spent a while trying to match the Fuji shot to the colors in the Sigma DP2 shot but somehow did not succeed very well. Comparing colors show the DP2 as the solid winner in this area in my opinion. Also, more brick texture is visible in the DP2 shot.

Details compare very well, but still the DP2 edges out the Fuji X10. This is to be expected mostly because the DP2 sensor has 5.53 times the surface area of the Fuji sensor in the 16x9 format I've used here (16x9 DP2 sensor area is 20.7x11.64 mm and 16x9 Fuji X10 sensor area is 8.8x4.95mm, 240.948sqmm/43.56sqmm = 5.53).

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Tiger1
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Re: DP2 Vs Fuji X10 at ISO 100, HD
In reply to Tom Schum, Jan 7, 2012

A much more appropriate comparison would have been DP2 vs X100. Both with fixed focal length lenses, both with large sensors.
Thanks anyway.

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Tom Schum
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Re: DP2 Vs Fuji X10 at ISO 100, HD
In reply to Tiger1, Jan 7, 2012

Tiger1 wrote:

A much more appropriate comparison would have been DP2 vs X100. Both with fixed focal length lenses, both with large sensors.
Thanks anyway.

I agree with you that it would be more meaningful since the two cameras are roughly equivalent.

If I had an X100 I would have done a comparison. The reason I didn't buy an X100 is that the lens cannot zoom. For me, this turned out to be the main problem with my DP2.
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petr marek
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Re: DP2 Vs Fuji X10 at ISO 100, HD
In reply to Tom Schum, Jan 8, 2012

I´m sorry, but this type of comparsion is waste of your time. I´m sure you could make several good photos instead of it working on such a useless comparsion. ...just my opinion

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guzzibreva1
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Re: DP2 Vs Fuji X10 at ISO 100, HD
In reply to petr marek, Jan 8, 2012

It's not useless because he is comparing cameras of about the same price. The x100 is almost twice the price.

The Fuji in reality is all the camera the average person needs. It's quick , well made and the images are "good enough" to be printed 8x10.

I am surprised that the color is not as good as the DP....isn't that supposed to be a foveon weak point?

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Tiger1
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Re: DP2 Vs Fuji X10 at ISO 100, HD
In reply to guzzibreva1, Jan 8, 2012

When the DP2 first hit the shelves in Australia it cost over $1000AU. Its price has dipped a little as nobody has been buying it.
The X100 costs around $1250AU. It hasn't dropped because they are selling well.

The two cameras are very similar and a very fair comparison even if the Sigma is a little cheaper. The better viewfinder and general features of the X100 more than makes up for the price differential.

IQ is what we want to compare.

That is a more balanced view!

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stanislaw stitchanow
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Fuji wins by far
In reply to Tom Schum, Jan 8, 2012

even the jpg output of this camera seems to be nearly on par with the RAW output of the Sigma.
When comparing Raw vs. Raw the DP will lose big times I fear.

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ChristianHass
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Re: Fuji wins by far
In reply to stanislaw stitchanow, Jan 8, 2012

stanislaw stitchanow wrote:

even the jpg output of this camera seems to be nearly on par with the RAW output of the Sigma.
When comparing Raw vs. Raw the DP will lose big times I fear.

Not sure which images you've been comparing. If you're talking about the one posted here then I find the DP2 image quite a bit better.

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stanislaw stitchanow
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Re: Fuji wins by far
In reply to ChristianHass, Jan 8, 2012

yes it is quite a bit better but he is comparing Fuji JPG output vs DP RAW output.

And for that the Fuji is really great, I don´t want to see a comparison of both JPG engines
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ChristianHass
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Re: Fuji wins by far
In reply to stanislaw stitchanow, Jan 8, 2012

stanislaw stitchanow wrote:

yes it is quite a bit better but he is comparing Fuji JPG output vs DP RAW output.

And for that the Fuji is really great, I don´t want to see a comparison of both JPG engines

Oh agreed completely. I'd also like to see both images at full res. I still have a feeling the DP2 will win though

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stanislaw stitchanow
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In reply to ChristianHass, Jan 8, 2012

but than you should take the sensor size in account. That in mind the Fuji is doing fantastic imho.
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AdamT
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Re: DP2 Vs Fuji X10 at ISO 100, HD
In reply to Tom Schum, Jan 8, 2012

Sorry there's no way the output from an X10 Beats a DP anything - even for DR, you can recover highlights and pull up shadows way beyond the capability of the EXR sensor..

The DP is the cam I grab when shooting in extremely contra lit situations, EXR is good for giving DR to the peanut and pinhead sensor sizes it comes in but shadow recovery is a real DP strong point. I'd say the 4.7Mp Foveon sensor resolves a very good 8Mp, the X10 pulls a half reasonable 6Mp at best .

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Jan Rietsema
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Re: DP2 Vs Fuji X10 at ISO 100, HD
In reply to AdamT, Jan 8, 2012

The next comparison will be between the DP2 and the Fuji X-Pro 1. Hard times for Sigma!

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AdamT
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Re: DP2 Vs Fuji X10 at ISO 100, HD
In reply to Jan Rietsema, Jan 8, 2012

The next comparison will be between the DP2 and the Fuji X-Pro 1. Hard times for Sigma!

The X-Pro uses the NEX-5N/D7000/K5 sensor so will win on all counts, difference is that it's cosiderably bigger than a DP and is hardly anywhere near the same price bracket ..

I love Foveon colour and imaging and for me an original DP1 & 2 does that nicely - rather like buying two lenses with bodies attached, Sigma have still yet to make lenses in their focal lengths for the SLRs which get even remotely close optically - sad for the SD1 which really needs glass of that quality and at very best (in DP focal range) is hampered with the vastly overpriced, CA strewn wasteland which is the 17-50 F2.8 EX OS - they don't make a 16mm prime at all and the 24 F1.8 EX is Junk.

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Tom Schum
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Re: DP2 Vs Fuji X10 at ISO 100, HD
In reply to Tom Schum, Jan 8, 2012

Thanks to all of you for your comments and opinions.

The two images at the HD level are visible below. If you are interested you should be able to download the 1920x1080 original images from my gallery but I don't think you'll get them by simply clicking on the images in this post.

Basically I compared these two cameras simply because I have them. They are similar in size and cost (I paid about $600 for my DP2). They both have good optics. They both use contrast-detect sensor-based autofocus (autofocus is the bane of my existence when I use my SD15). They are both excellent travel cameras, being rather mundane in appearance and rather small.

The DP2 is exquisite when it comes to image quality at ISO100, and I wanted to see how close I could get with my Fuji X10. The scene might not be the best one to use, but the two images were pretty well exposed, and taken within minutes of each other.

I think I could have done a little bit better with a raw version of the Fuji shot, but first of all I did not have the camera set up to shoot raw, and second I have not been anxious to learn how to use the Fuji raw conversion software (a version of Silkypix).

What astounded me about this comparison was the equivalence between the two in terms of resolution. The DP2 has the win when it comes to overall image quality, but for me the X10 beats it on convenience (not least because of the zoom lens).

What is also interesting to me is to see that when images are downsized to HD they retain much of the subtle aspects that are visible at native resolutions (such as the texture of the bricks in the DP2 version). I first began to notice this with a casual SD1 shot I took while sampling a friend's camera. The SD1 image effortlessly beat anything my SD15 could do, and this was clearly evident after downsizing to HD! Maybe it's just a subjective thing, but I noticed.

For these two images, there was a lot of processing (color, lighting, and sharpening) I did after downsizing. You are only seeing the end results, but basically I did what I could to make each one look its best while matching the other fairly closely. Without getting into full color-profiling (which I do not want to attempt) it's impossible because the color gamut is interpreted differently between the two. It's a set of decisions made by the manufacturer, and each set is different. One might match a single color in the image only to see the others become too far off the mark.

I've done other comparisons (even less scientific) between these two cameras and at ISO1600 or above, using manufacturer's processing software (no expensive third party stuff except for my $80 Photoshop Elements 9). In my opinion, the blotch free results of the Fuji are superior but the Sigma might still have the edge in basic resolution. It would be nice to see Sigma improve high-ISO performance and their JPG engine. One reason I decided to try Fuji was their excellent reputation for great JPG results right out of the camera. The other reason was high-ISO performance.

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sensibill
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Re: DP2 Vs Fuji X10 at ISO 100, HD
In reply to Tom Schum, Jan 9, 2012

Yeah, I have to say this is a very non-scientific comparison since you are using JPEG from one camera vs. converted RAW from the other, using different programs.

I see slightly better color from the Sigma, but the fuji is out-resolving it despite the AA filter discrepancy. Notice the fence structure up by the flag on top. The DP cannot resolve the individual bars, but the X10 can.

But again, not really conclusive given the disparity of formats and apps. Good effort, though - very similar images regardless and it shows the power of the X3, given how old that configuration is.

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Re: DP2 Vs Fuji X10 at ISO 100, HD
In reply to Tom Schum, Jan 9, 2012

Tom Schum wrote:

Thanks to all of you for your comments and opinions.

The two images at the HD level are visible below. If you are interested you should be able to download the 1920x1080 original images from my gallery but I don't think you'll get them by simply clicking on the images in this post.´

The overall difference is far more evident here than in the crops. The DP2 shot, apart from better color, has better contrast (to my eyes) and more perceivable depth, pop, 3D, whatever we currently name it. The Fuji does look fine, too.

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HBowman
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Re: DP2 Vs Fuji X10 at ISO 100, HD
In reply to sensibill, Jan 9, 2012

sensibill wrote:

Yeah, I have to say this is a very non-scientific comparison since you are using JPEG from one camera vs. converted RAW from the other, using different programs.

I see slightly better color from the Sigma, but the fuji is out-resolving it despite the AA filter discrepancy. Notice the fence structure up by the flag on top. The DP cannot resolve the individual bars, but the X10 can.

But again, not really conclusive given the disparity of formats and apps. Good effort, though - very similar images regardless and it shows the power of the X3, given how old that configuration is.

No I think you inversed the pictures in your judgement. Actually, the DP2X have far more accutance than most existing APSC, even the nex-7. The x10 is nothing compared to it, especially when it come to PRINTING.

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sensibill
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Re: DP2 Vs Fuji X10 at ISO 100, HD
In reply to HBowman, Jan 10, 2012

No, in the first comparison posted, the Sigma is pulling less detail of the fence below the flag. I couldn't tell from the other (DPR resized) samples but if there was a way to look at the original RAW conversions without resampling or resizing, we could probably see what I'm talking about. The Sigma does resolve more texture detail of the wall of the brown building, though.

I've just recently picked up a DP1s to play with and while it is undeniably a 100% crop monster in terms of clarity and great DR, tonal range, etc., the fact remains that you can't cut much before you hit that relatively low resolution limit. My NX100 at a full 14.6MP can chuck half the image and still be showing a lot of detail (the AA filter of that model was especially weak).

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guzzibreva1
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Re: DP2 Vs Fuji X10 at ISO 100, HD
In reply to HBowman, Jan 10, 2012

On large prints my Pentax K5 has trouble keeping up with my DP1s when it comes to sharpness. I don't see how the X10 would be in the same ballpark.

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