Any D4 vs D3S high ISO samples comparison around?

Started Jan 6, 2012 | Discussions
sbill
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Any D4 vs D3S high ISO samples comparison around?
Jan 6, 2012

The most interesting thing to me would be the high ISO performance of the new D4. Will it just stand along the D3s or get much better results (with less noise that is)? Anyone with a good comparison chart/ pictures samples site?
Hoping for such comparison to leak soon!
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Bill

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jean bernier
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Re: Any D4 vs D3S high ISO samples comparison around?
In reply to sbill, Jan 6, 2012

Same here. I postponed a D3s acquisition because of the upcoming D4, in order to add another pro body to my stable. According to specs, the max ISO whithout boost is 12,800, same as D3s. The D4 probably has better IQ, but it sure should have to show significant improvement. Expect a noticeable workflow slowdown, as even D7000 files take much longer to process in NX2 than D3 files, almost as long as D3X files, actually: with the recent update to 64 bits, D3 files are processed blazingly fast: this new mpix count nullifies some of the recent improvements, with questionable benefits.

My beef is the numerous changes in layout wich makes this camera a little tricky to use along older D3/D3X bodies. The Lock button is gone, the metering switch is gone, the M-AF-s, AF-c switch is different (I have the new style one on a D7000 and it is a pain in comparison), the AF area is chosen through another button, the image viewing (enlarging function) is done differently, other changes I forget.

On top of that, a new generation card (nice but if you set up for back up, does the recording speed aligns with the slowest of the two?), a new battery (not Nikon's fault, but still, having to pack up two chargers and not being able to swap batteries between bodies ?).

IMO the pro photographer is better to sell all older pro bodies and invest in more than one D4.

I may skip the D4, against my habits of investing in the latest technology, and will contact my distributor to be the first in line about a nice used D3s.

IF the improvement in Hi ISO IQ is convincing, I may change my mind, but it will be painfull....this new camera certainly does not produce the excitement the original D3 created, does it ? The D3 pulled us from the dark ages (I hated that D2X!).

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O5iris
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Re: Any D4 vs D3S high ISO samples comparison around?
In reply to sbill, Jan 6, 2012

For now you can see the samples of both cameras at Nikon sites (try Nikon Australia - they have full resolution samples for the D4, unlike other sites).

http://www.nikon.com.au/en_AU/product_details.page?DCRPath=templatedata/en_AU/saleable_product_information/data/Digital%20SLR%20Cameras/D4.xml¤tProductTab=4&CategoryID=gp11zkm9

I could be wrong - and I hope I am - but to my eyes, and based purely on Nikon's official samples, there is no noticeable improvement at ISO 6400 from the D3s to D4...

I know there's much more than ISO performance improvements to hope in the D4 (DR being the most important feature IMHO) but... we will see as time passes by and more samples and real tests with production cameras flood the web.

What do you think?

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jean bernier
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Re: Any D4 vs D3S high ISO samples comparison around?
In reply to O5iris, Jan 6, 2012

O5iris wrote:

For now you can see the samples of both cameras at Nikon sites (try Nikon Australia - they have full resolution samples for the D4, unlike other sites).

thanks, I just looked at them. I forgot to mention the ISO 100 base ISO is a very useful feature for those stuck with 1/250th shutter max sync limitations. Nice.

http://www.nikon.com.au/en_AU/product_details.page?DCRPath=templatedata/en_AU/saleable_product_information/data/Digital%20SLR%20Cameras/D4.xml ¤tProductTab=4&CategoryID=gp11zkm9

I could be wrong - and I hope I am - but to my eyes, and based purely on Nikon's official samples, there is no noticeable improvement at ISO 6400 from the D3s to D4...

I don't own a D3s, so I can't comment. The IQ depends on other factors, such as optimal exposure: what if the original file (skater) was somewhat overexposed, making it effectively a ISO 4000 or ISO 5000 shot ? This is why were waiting impatienly for a direct comparison. For what I do, both ISO 100 is desirable, and ISO 12800 is important. The rest I can do whithout. But as I said in my previous post post, I'm not paying full price for older technology, hence the reason I'm considering a used D3s.
I wonder when it will be discontinued?

I know there's much more than ISO performance improvements to hope in the D4 (DR being the most important feature IMHO) but... we will see as time passes by and more samples and real tests with production cameras flood the web.

A half stop more DR or a half stop more HI ISO won't be worth several thousand dollars to me !

What do you think?

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O5iris
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Re: Any D4 vs D3S high ISO samples comparison around?
In reply to jean bernier, Jan 6, 2012

I agree with all you say.

I can't afford a D3s much less a D4 but I speak as a Nikon equipment owner and I love their products.

IF I needed the video stuff then I bet that the D4 will be unbeatable for some time, but talking about the photography specs and these very first impressions... it doesn't impress much considering the D3s and I would have to wait for a lot more proof to upgrade.

jean bernier wrote:

O5iris wrote:

For now you can see the samples of both cameras at Nikon sites (try Nikon Australia - they have full resolution samples for the D4, unlike other sites).

thanks, I just looked at them. I forgot to mention the ISO 100 base ISO is a very useful feature for those stuck with 1/250th shutter max sync limitations. Nice.

http://www.nikon.com.au/en_AU/product_details.page?DCRPath=templatedata/en_AU/saleable_product_information/data/Digital%20SLR%20Cameras/D4.xml ¤tProductTab=4&CategoryID=gp11zkm9

I could be wrong - and I hope I am - but to my eyes, and based purely on Nikon's official samples, there is no noticeable improvement at ISO 6400 from the D3s to D4...

I don't own a D3s, so I can't comment. The IQ depends on other factors, such as optimal exposure: what if the original file (skater) was somewhat overexposed, making it effectively a ISO 4000 or ISO 5000 shot ? This is why were waiting impatienly for a direct comparison. For what I do, both ISO 100 is desirable, and ISO 12800 is important. The rest I can do whithout. But as I said in my previous post post, I'm not paying full price for older technology, hence the reason I'm considering a used D3s.
I wonder when it will be discontinued?

I know there's much more than ISO performance improvements to hope in the D4 (DR being the most important feature IMHO) but... we will see as time passes by and more samples and real tests with production cameras flood the web.

A half stop more DR or a half stop more HI ISO won't be worth several thousand dollars to me !

What do you think?

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rhlpetrus
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Re: Any D4 vs D3S high ISO samples comparison around?
In reply to O5iris, Jan 6, 2012

O5iris wrote:

For now you can see the samples of both cameras at Nikon sites (try Nikon Australia - they have full resolution samples for the D4, unlike other sites).

http://www.nikon.com.au/en_AU/product_details.page?DCRPath=templatedata/en_AU/saleable_product_information/data/Digital%20SLR%20Cameras/D4.xml¤tProductTab=4&CategoryID=gp11zkm9

I could be wrong - and I hope I am - but to my eyes, and based purely on Nikon's official samples, there is no noticeable improvement at ISO 6400 from the D3s to D4...

If both look same at full res (both) then there's about 1/3 stop advantage in favor of D4, not bad, meaning DxO score around 4000 ISO.

That's realistic in real perfrmance, w/o NR tricks, given D3s' already outstanding performance.

Now, if base Iso is 100 for real, then shadow recovery ability could be at least one stop better compared to D3s'.

I know there's much more than ISO performance improvements to hope in the D4 (DR being the most important feature IMHO) but... we will see as time passes by and more samples and real tests with production cameras flood the web.

What do you think?

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O5iris
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Re: Any D4 vs D3S high ISO samples comparison around?
In reply to rhlpetrus, Jan 6, 2012

OK, I hear you.

Nevertheless I am bit underwelmed with ISO performance. Why do I care a bit? not because I will own one (can't afford it) but because I love Nikon

The 'rest' of the camera sure looks promissing (and on top of that it's a beautiful piece of equipment!)

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coudet
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Re: Any D4 vs D3S high ISO samples comparison around?
In reply to O5iris, Jan 6, 2012

O5iris wrote:

Nevertheless I am bit underwelmed with ISO performance.

Unrealistic expectations.

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O5iris
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Re: Any D4 vs D3S high ISO samples comparison around?
In reply to coudet, Jan 6, 2012

Today they may be a bit unrealistic. But not in a not too distant future.
Nevertheless, it is the camera of the moment, along with the 1Dx.

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Horshack
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Here's a very quick 'n dirty ISO 12,800 comparison
In reply to sbill, Jan 6, 2012

D3s JPEG from dpreview's studio comparison widget

D4 JPEG from http://www.bezergheanu.com/TestNikon/Nikon-D4Nikkor-8518-af-s/20915871_LhHTdj#1661298266_WrGcvtd

Use this comparison at your own peril I haven't looked at the EXIF to see if the High ISO NR setting was the same between bodies, nor is it known how the JPEG engines differ.

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Horshack
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Re: Here's a very quick 'n dirty ISO 12,800 comparison
In reply to Horshack, Jan 6, 2012

Forgot to also mention, the WB/lighting temp between the two images is pretty far apart with the D3s photo using dpreview's lighting which is 4000K whereas the D4 shot looks incandescent.

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teodorian2
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Re: Any D4 vs D3S high ISO samples comparison around?
In reply to O5iris, Jan 7, 2012

O5iris wrote:

For now you can see the samples of both cameras at Nikon sites (try Nikon Australia - they have full resolution samples for the D4, unlike other sites).

http://www.nikon.com.au/en_AU/product_details.page?DCRPath=templatedata/en_AU/saleable_product_information/data/Digital%20SLR%20Cameras/D4.xml ¤tProductTab=4&CategoryID=gp11zkm9

I could be wrong - and I hope I am - but to my eyes, and based purely on Nikon's official samples, there is no noticeable improvement at ISO 6400 from the D3s to D4...

I know there's much more than ISO performance improvements to hope in the D4 (DR being the most important feature IMHO) but... we will see as time passes by and more samples and real tests with production cameras flood the web.

What do you think?

Between ISO 200 and ISO 6400 there are no significant improvements expected comparing the D4 to the D3s. This means the difference in only up to 1/3 EV. This is the consequence of two factors:

1) The efficiency (QE) of the sensor of the D4 can not be improved much over what the sensor in the D3s measure (QE 57%),

2) The advantage in effect of nomalization is minimal for the 16 MP D4 over the 12 MP D3s viewed at the same image/print size.

However comparing results at either base ISO (100 on the D4 vs 200 on the D3s) and at the highest ISO settings (ISO 12800+) might at the very best show an improvement about some 1/2 EV. This would indicate that the Hi-4/ISO 204800 will yield worse results than the Hi-3/ISO 102400 on the D3s and very certainly the Hi-1/ISO 25600 setting on the D4 will be inferior to the ISO 12800 results from the D3s.

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Event_shooter
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Re: Any D4 vs D3S high ISO samples comparison around?
In reply to teodorian2, Jan 7, 2012

OK I hope everyone knows a lot more technology went into the D4 than they put in the D3s.

For those who are just comparing two cameras via two picture are certainly MISSING the whole picture between these two cameras.

Here's a few,. The difference in the buffer, the focus, the engine that drives everything, and on and on and on.

Yes I know it's all about the picture, but one needs to look at the trip it takes to get there.

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noirdesir
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Re: Any D4 vs D3S high ISO samples comparison around?
In reply to jean bernier, Jan 7, 2012

jean bernier wrote:

Same here. I postponed a D3s acquisition because of the upcoming D4, in order to add another pro body to my stable. According to specs, the max ISO whithout boost is 12,800, same as D3s. The D4 probably has better IQ, but it sure should have to show significant improvement. Expect a noticeable workflow slowdown, as even D7000 files take much longer to process in NX2 than D3 files, almost as long as D3X files, actually: with the recent update to 64 bits, D3 files are processed blazingly fast: this new mpix count nullifies some of the recent improvements, with questionable benefits.

You mean in the four years since the release of the D3, computing power has only increased by 30% in order to just keep pace with the MP increase from 12 MP to 16 MP?

When image processing duration decreases by 30% every year because computers get faster, we take that as a god given right. But when computational speed increases for one year (out of four) get eaten up by MP increases, we cry murder. Sounds like a very self-indulging attitude to life.

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teodorian2
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ISO 204800 before and after NR
In reply to Horshack, Jan 7, 2012

Horshack wrote:

D4 JPEG from http://www.bezergheanu.com/TestNikon/Nikon-D4Nikkor-8518-af-s/20915871_LhHTdj#1661298266_WrGcvtd

From the same source - ISO 204800 original downsampled 1024 px jpg side by side to a post processed one:

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xerojay
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Re: ISO 204800 before and after NR
In reply to teodorian2, Jan 7, 2012

LMAO!!! Dude, you do know what that amount of NR would do to a portrait, right? It would turn my 86 year old Nana into a plastic goddess!
Nice try though;)

teodorian2 wrote:

Horshack wrote:

D4 JPEG from http://www.bezergheanu.com/TestNikon/Nikon-D4Nikkor-8518-af-s/20915871_LhHTdj#1661298266_WrGcvtd

From the same source - ISO 204800 original downsampled 1024 px jpg side by side to a post processed one:

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Tubed_Jazz
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Re: ISO 204800 before and after NR
In reply to xerojay, Jan 7, 2012

I'm old enough to still be mind-blowingly amazed that you can capture a usable image of a scene that requires an iso of 200k.

I don't know the settings for that picture so I cannot check, but if the light was so low that it needed an iso of 204,800 I am seriously impressed!

Jeff

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jeminijoseph
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Please explain in english :)
In reply to Horshack, Jan 7, 2012

So D4 is better or same?

Horshack wrote:

Forgot to also mention, the WB/lighting temp between the two images is pretty far apart with the D3s photo using dpreview's lighting which is 4000K whereas the D4 shot looks incandescent.
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lock
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Agreed
In reply to xerojay, Jan 7, 2012

Just picture your Nana in one of those chairs. With proper DOF and both glasses and Nana properly in focus, you will see a doll next to an empty chair with fabrics without any texture or cloqué.

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Andre De Angelis
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Re: ISO 204800 before and after NR
In reply to xerojay, Jan 7, 2012

xerojay wrote:

LMAO!!! Dude, you do know what that amount of NR would do to a portrait, right? It would turn my 86 year old Nana into a plastic goddess!

What idiot would want to shoot a portrait at 200,000 ISO?

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