inquisition?

Started Jan 2, 2012 | Discussions
veronica webster
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inquisition?
Jan 2, 2012

My dear Paolo Matoz, Raptor and co.!

Have you ever hear about very famous portugal consul Aristides de Sousa Mendes, a good man who saved so many lives of innocent people, who were persecuted by the people 'who have never sinned'?

This dpreview cheaters persecution became a hysteria that exceeded the main purpose, that is to make as good photos as possible.

Having two accounts is proclamated as a crime, but how many times the challenge is full immediately, (but not because of people with many accounts) or -never.

The cheating which I don't agree is to give 5ves to each other, because again, there is not good photograhy the main purpose , but win for all costs. But even in this case, I am sure that person will stop, because
cheating himself will not bring him satisfaction.

So, I would recommend a little more human width to you and your detective friends, because this is supposed to be a friendly photographers meeting and not madman race to win.
Yours sincerely
Veronica Webster

Paulo Matos
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Re: inquisition?
In reply to veronica webster, Jan 2, 2012

Dear Veronica,

My name is Paulo Matos and I am from Portugal.

I'm glad that you registered your account today, mainly to participate in this forum and share your thoughts about the cheating.

Talking about Aristides de Sousa Mendes honors my country but it disrespects completely the persecuted people you mentioned by comparing them with the cheaters in this site. Humanly it was very insensitive.

You will find a lot of human "width" from me and the other "detectives", as long as you respect others and stop the fallacies.

By the way, your disturbance with this theme is very suspicious.

Best regards.

veronica webster wrote:

My dear Paolo Matoz, Raptor and co.!

Have you ever hear about very famous portugal consul Aristides de Sousa Mendes, a good man who saved so many lives of innocent people, who were persecuted by the people 'who have never sinned'?

This dpreview cheaters persecution became a hysteria that exceeded the main purpose, that is to make as good photos as possible.

Having two accounts is proclamated as a crime, but how many times the challenge is full immediately, (but not because of people with many accounts) or -never.

The cheating which I don't agree is to give 5ves to each other, because again, there is not good photograhy the main purpose , but win for all costs. But even in this case, I am sure that person will stop, because
cheating himself will not bring him satisfaction.

So, I would recommend a little more human width to you and your detective friends, because this is supposed to be a friendly photographers meeting and not madman race to win.
Yours sincerely
Veronica Webster

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jmgir
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Re: inquisition?
In reply to veronica webster, Jan 2, 2012

Dear Veronica,

The message that you posted wouldn't be here if it were not for the Cheaters. You are right stating that this a photographer's site but the effect of cheating robs opportunity from other photographers who don't cheat. Of course we are not without sin, mea culpa, but in order to run fair challenges for everyone Cheating shouldn't be permitted. I will disagree with you about the fact that the Cheater will eventually stop, because the results boost his/her ego. Having more than one account for the purpose of cheating is unethical imo.

Best regards,

Jean-Marie

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RaptorUK
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Re: inquisition?
In reply to veronica webster, Jan 3, 2012

veronica webster wrote:

My dear Paolo Matoz, Raptor and co.!

Have you ever hear about very famous portugal consul Aristides de Sousa Mendes, a good man who saved so many lives of innocent people, who were persecuted by the people 'who have never sinned'?

This dpreview cheaters persecution became a hysteria that exceeded the main purpose, that is to make as good photos as possible.

I think you are getting hysterical . . calm down and chill out.

Having two accounts is proclamated as a crime, but how many times the challenge is full immediately, (but not because of people with many accounts) or -never.

It's not a crime . . . but according to Simon Joinson: DPReview Editor / Manager it is "verboten" . . . forbidden.

The cheating which I don't agree is to give 5ves to each other, because again, there is not good photograhy the main purpose , but win for all costs. But even in this case, I am sure that person will stop, because
cheating himself will not bring him satisfaction.

OK, good point . . . when the Cheats stop I was also stop trying to stop them . . I promise.

So, I would recommend a little more human width to you and your detective friends, because this is supposed to be a friendly photographers meeting and not madman race to win.
Yours sincerely
Veronica Webster

Have a nice day

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RickBuddy
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Re: inquisition?
In reply to veronica webster, Jan 3, 2012

Veronica,

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.

Sorry.

I do agree with you, but as for the initial comment I just couldn't help myself.

Comfy chair?

Rick
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happy snapper uk
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Re: inquisition?
In reply to RickBuddy, Jan 3, 2012

off with there heads

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bettyhilda
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Re: inquisition?
In reply to happy snapper uk, Jan 3, 2012

Interesting viewpoint! Personally I am very grateful to the people in this forum who take the time and trouble to try and ensure that we all 'play' on a level playing field . I don't cheat therefore I have no problem with them investigating anything or anybody - including me!! Only someone very new and ill informed would see investigations and outing of deliberate proven cheaters as 'an inquisition'! People who do not cheat have nothing to fear. We are the victims here - not the cheaters! Maybe down the track when you have actually submitted some work yourself and disappointingly had it adversely affected by cheating you might feel differently?

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EXX
EXX
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NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!
In reply to veronica webster, Jan 3, 2012
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veronica webster
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Re: NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!
In reply to EXX, Jan 3, 2012

Yes,that's the point I am talking about. THAT kind of inquisition is OK.

I agree that cheating is not a moral value. But I was talking about the fanatical sharpness of the prosecution.

If you think with a cool head, you would find two ways of cheating: 1. several accounts 2. voting for each other. The second is of course much heavier offence, but I still believe that such a person will be stopped by himself. For example I can go to my father, who has 100 emloyees, and they all have computers. If only 1/5 vote for me, I have 20 fives. But I (or they, they especially ) will do it only once or twice, don't you agree? You can never prove THAT way of cheating. So, because of inability to capture those cheaters, the sharpness is directed against cheaters with several account, who are to be traced easily.

In this case I would propose: 1. warning 2.banning for 3-6 months 3.permanent bannig, but no way immediate permanent banning.

And that is what I wanted to say, because it seems to me, some people are rather nervous and when they catch somebody with two accounts, they would immediately tie him to the pillory.

I work in school and I have many enthusiastic, ambitious boys and they do offences, of course. But with graduating punishment you can reach much better results, while the immediate maximum penalty could destroy somebody's young capable life.
And that is what I thought by "inquisition".

Veronica Webster

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RaptorUK
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Re: NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!
In reply to veronica webster, Jan 3, 2012

veronica webster wrote:

Yes,that's the point I am talking about. THAT kind of inquisition is OK.

I agree that cheating is not a moral value. But I was talking about the fanatical sharpness of the prosecution.

If you think with a cool head, you would find two ways of cheating: 1. several accounts 2. voting for each other. The second is of course much heavier offence, but I still believe that such a person will be stopped by himself.

What about numbers 3, 4, 5, etc ?

3. Deliberately changing the Date taken date on an image so that it meets the requirement of a Capture date restriction Challenge ?

For example I can go to my father, who has 100 emloyees, and they all have computers. If only 1/5 vote for me, I have 20 fives. But I (or they, they especially ) will do it only once or twice, don't you agree? You can never prove THAT way of cheating.

That isn't cheating . . .

So, because of inability to capture those cheaters, the sharpness is directed against cheaters with several account, who are to be traced easily.

In this case I would propose: 1. warning 2.banning for 3-6 months 3.permanent bannig, but no way immediate permanent banning.

And that is what I wanted to say, because it seems to me, some people are rather nervous and when they catch somebody with two accounts, they would immediately tie him to the pillory.

No, you should read all that has been written instead of making assumptions . . . technically speaking; having multiple accounts is not against the rules . . . repeatedly entering Challenges with more than the allowed number of entries is against the rules, it also takes opportunity away from legitimate Entrants.

I work in school and I have many enthusiastic, ambitious boys and they do offences, of course. But with graduating punishment you can reach much better results, while the immediate maximum penalty could destroy somebody's young capable life.

We are not here to teach Entrants correct behaviour . . .

And that is what I thought by "inquisition".

Veronica Webster

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John of Brisbane
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Re: NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!
In reply to veronica webster, Jan 3, 2012

veronica webster wrote:

I work in school and I have many enthusiastic, ambitious boys and they do offences, of course. But with graduating punishment you can reach much better results, while the immediate maximum penalty could destroy somebody's young capable life.

Veronica - we are not talking about naughty school children here. We are talking about responsible adults (i hope) who deliberately set out to cheat, thereby spoiling it for many. These people will just continue to push the limits. Obviously "graduated punishments" taught them they could get away with it until finally the "ultimate" punishment is reached.

There are a number of persistent and inveterate cheaters on this site who need to be dealt with once and for all. They have turned away many honest participants and are ruining the reputations of those who run the site or participate.
Banning them for good is the ONLY solution. Some people just never learn.

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bettyhilda
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Re: NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!
In reply to John of Brisbane, Jan 3, 2012

Absolutely agree John. The excitable use of words such as 'persecution', 'hysteria', 'a madman race to win', 'inquisition', 'fanatical, 'pillory', 'destroy someone's young life' etc are a bit over dramatic! And I really don't see the relevance of the Monty Python clip as pertaining to this situation, funny though the sketch is.

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RaptorUK
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Re: NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!
In reply to bettyhilda, Jan 3, 2012

Maybe akita inu/hervard traven has now morphed into akita inu/hervard traven/veronica webster . . .

bettyhilda wrote:

Absolutely agree John. The excitable use of words such as 'persecution', 'hysteria', 'a madman race to win', 'inquisition', 'fanatical, 'pillory', 'destroy someone's young life' etc are a bit over dramatic! And I really don't see the relevance of the Monty Python clip as pertaining to this situation, funny though the sketch is.

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Re: NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!
In reply to RaptorUK, Jan 3, 2012

@Veronica Webster... It's very noble to use "Humane Approach", but when you set out to protect the less-than-honest part of the society please remember that the majority of people deserve equal chances. If cheating belongs to criminal behavior (as it does) it has to be removed, shunned, exterminated of whatever name is given to the procedure. It's not as if people are asking for the heads to roll, but you'll have to admit that some people with criminal attitude do not necessarily belong here.

Cheating, treated with "humane approach" begets more cheating. Removing some cheaters sends a message to others who might also nurse funny views on winning tactics. Anyway, nobody's going to die if removed from one site where their behavior is not wanted. It just might happen that such removals help the cheaters (and apprentices) to think again, recalling some of the basics they've been taught through their infant years. Honesty is not replaceable by forgiveness, understanding, leniency and similar wrongly applied feelings. It is horrible enough when it has to be enforced.

Looking at your posts here, a word "provocation" comes to mind, for some reason...

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barb_s
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Re: NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!
In reply to veronica webster, Jan 3, 2012

Veronica,

When someone wins a challenge and replies to a congratulatory message using their other account, it's pretty irritating for the rest of us. Just like any other requirement, a rule was not followed and they took the rightful win from someone else when they broke it. And I'll tell you, an honest win feels good. The second place entry should be enjoying a 1st place win in that case.

Since you are brand new to DPR, you certainly can't appreciate the work and effort we all go thru to set up or participate in challenges. We have something vested, even if it's all for fun, and we just want to see a fair competition.

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ConanFuji
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Re: NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!
In reply to barb_s, Jan 3, 2012

So well said, barb.

barb_s wrote:

Veronica,

When someone wins a challenge and replies to a congratulatory message using their other account, it's pretty irritating for the rest of us. Just like any other requirement, a rule was not followed and they took the rightful win from someone else when they broke it. And I'll tell you, an honest win feels good. The second place entry should be enjoying a 1st place win in that case.

Since you are brand new to DPR, you certainly can't appreciate the work and effort we all go thru to set up or participate in challenges. We have something vested, even if it's all for fun, and we just want to see a fair competition.

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Paulo Matos
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Re: NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!
In reply to veronica webster, Jan 3, 2012

Veronica, your words are far more nervous, persecutory, fanatical or hysterical than any words I have found here until now.

Do you realize you are accusing us of exactly what you are being/doing?

Do you really think all persons you claimed to be "detectives" are actively searching for cheating?

Do you also realize that you are proposing banning when some of the "detectives" you mentioned never proposed that, rather proposing only educational measures?

I don't expect you to answer these questions, since your arguments seem to be a very poor excuse for someone's acts who has been found cheating by the community .

veronica webster wrote:

Yes,that's the point I am talking about. THAT kind of inquisition is OK.

I agree that cheating is not a moral value. But I was talking about the fanatical sharpness of the prosecution.

If you think with a cool head, you would find two ways of cheating: 1. several accounts 2. voting for each other. The second is of course much heavier offence, but I still believe that such a person will be stopped by himself. For example I can go to my father, who has 100 emloyees, and they all have computers. If only 1/5 vote for me, I have 20 fives. But I (or they, they especially ) will do it only once or twice, don't you agree? You can never prove THAT way of cheating. So, because of inability to capture those cheaters, the sharpness is directed against cheaters with several account, who are to be traced easily.

In this case I would propose: 1. warning 2.banning for 3-6 months 3.permanent bannig, but no way immediate permanent banning.

And that is what I wanted to say, because it seems to me, some people are rather nervous and when they catch somebody with two accounts, they would immediately tie him to the pillory.

I work in school and I have many enthusiastic, ambitious boys and they do offences, of course. But with graduating punishment you can reach much better results, while the immediate maximum penalty could destroy somebody's young capable life.
And that is what I thought by "inquisition".

Veronica Webster

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veronica webster
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Re: NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!
In reply to Paulo Matos, Jan 3, 2012

Re: What should be done with cheats ? [SIMILAR]
VivaLasVegas - 2 months ago

1. Give them a warning and supporting evidence.

2. Ban them from challenges for a month and supporting evidence.

3. Ban them from challenges for 3 months and supporting evidence.

4. Ban them from challenges for 6 months and supporting evidence. They'll be registered as compulsive cheater just like a registered sex offenders for 6 months when they enter a challenge or vote on a challenge.

5. If they are clean for a year, then go to #1 and so on and so forth. . . .

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Paulo Matos
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Re: NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!
In reply to veronica webster, Jan 3, 2012

On the same thread I wrote:

"I would suggest and educational approach. As we can see in messaging, he/she doesn't seem to be aware of how wrong is to have 2 ids."
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1044&message=39967469

Or:

"Educating the authors should be DPR's responsibility or else it would seem to me an unnecessary and paternalistic attitude compared to the obvious pride of the authors for their choices. Yes, because it's their choice and responsibility when they deliberately change the EXIF or use different IDs, for instance, to surpass challenge's limitations.

If I "educate" someone to not falsify the results of a challenge with a biased voting, I would not be very confident that this person won't do the same again afterwards. We are talking about many different cultures to have access to this site and we also should expect many different approaches to the principles and values ​​of each person. Therefore, it must be DPR to educate and enforce its own rules and principles."
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1044&message=39974044

I never talked about banning.

Now tell me who's being more close to the Spanish inquisition.

I would be afraid to let a son of mine frequenting a school where you work.

veronica webster wrote:

Re: What should be done with cheats ? [SIMILAR]
VivaLasVegas - 2 months ago

1. Give them a warning and supporting evidence.

2. Ban them from challenges for a month and supporting evidence.

3. Ban them from challenges for 3 months and supporting evidence.

4. Ban them from challenges for 6 months and supporting evidence. They'll be registered as compulsive cheater just like a registered sex offenders for 6 months when they enter a challenge or vote on a challenge.

5. If they are clean for a year, then go to #1 and so on and so forth. . . .

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RaptorUK
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Re: NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!
In reply to veronica webster, Jan 3, 2012

I realise that you have lost your 5 year old account . . . but you should have thought about that BEFORE you created your 2nd account and started using it in the SAME Challenges to bypass the entry number limitation . . . you can't plead ignorance or that it was a simple mistake . . . you have to suffer the consequences of your actions.

veronica webster wrote:

Re: What should be done with cheats ? [SIMILAR]
VivaLasVegas - 2 months ago

1. Give them a warning and supporting evidence.

2. Ban them from challenges for a month and supporting evidence.

3. Ban them from challenges for 3 months and supporting evidence.

4. Ban them from challenges for 6 months and supporting evidence. They'll be registered as compulsive cheater just like a registered sex offenders for 6 months when they enter a challenge or vote on a challenge.

5. If they are clean for a year, then go to #1 and so on and so forth. . . .

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