G10 still outresolves many other cameras at base ISO

Started Dec 13, 2011 | Discussions
Peter Nelson
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G10 still outresolves many other cameras at base ISO
Dec 13, 2011

I am very unwilling to replace my several year old Canon G10 as I was just comparing it to the Sony NEX 5n at base ISO and the G10 is better, sharper and with more detail. Not a lot of diggerence, but still noticable.

Yes I know, I know the higher the ISO is the problem with the G10. However I have used the dpr comparator and really have found the G10 is not as bad as people thought even compared to G11 and G12.

I use ISO 80 outdoors so as to take advantage of the resolution advantage of the G10. Indoors I usually use another camera and why not I do have other cameras.

So the pocketability of the G10 aids it use in an outdoor good lighting environment. Just what I wanted. A pocket battleship of a point and shoot camera.
-Peter
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Otto
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Re: G10 still outresolves many other cameras at base ISO
In reply to Peter Nelson, Dec 13, 2011

I feel the same about mine.

Otto...

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AdamT
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especially in RAW wideopen ----->
In reply to Peter Nelson, Dec 13, 2011

where it just about outresolves a 50D with any EFS zoom on !! (weaker AA filter than the 50D) ....

The Key is to keep the lens wideopen - even stopping down to F4 reduces the resolution due to diffraction. I dumped the P7000 and G11 and went back to the G10 - OK it's not as good at high ISOs even resized down to 10Mp but it's less than half a stop worse in RAW with modern converters like C1 V5 and the latest Lightroom as RAW converters have got a lot better since the G10 was launched - and I have an S90 and a NEX5N so who cares ..

Another thing is the G10 JPG engine isn't glooped up with NR at low ISOs like its successors so you can shoot JPG with it - I class ALL the 10Mp CCD cams from the S90 to P7100/XZ1 era bar the P7000 as RAW only camearas for this reason, the G10 is pretty good even in JPG.

The Lovely thing about the G10 is that with 15Mp, you get almost 200mm of P7000 rez reach from the 140mm long end if you crop 10Mp out from the middle and the lens is a lot better than the P7000 at the long end, is faster and has way better IS .

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John EH
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Re: G10 still outresolves many other cameras at base ISO
In reply to Peter Nelson, Dec 13, 2011

Good to hear posts like this. I too have a couple favorite cameras that aren't brand new and shiny. As far as super zooms go I have a Nikon 8700 that I don't think can be touched even by todays releases. Just something magical about that camera.

The Nikon D40 is the same in the DSLR camp. Realizing that this is a Canon forum I also felt the exact same way about the G7. Big mistake ever selling it. Great camera.

Keep using your G10 until it breaks and then get another one if that is the camera that floats your boat. New isn't always better in my opinion.

John

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macten52
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Re: G10 still outresolves many other cameras at base ISO
In reply to Peter Nelson, Dec 13, 2011

I also have a G10 and still love it. In good light it is awesome! I do shoot it ISO 400 at times and with enough adjusting I can get pretty good results. I have been eyeballing the new Sony NEX5N but thus far have been able to resist spending my hard earned $$.

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jesalonen
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Re: G10 still outresolves many other cameras at base ISO
In reply to Peter Nelson, Dec 13, 2011

Thanks Peter for bringing this up. I gave up film photography a couple weeks ago and while I was thinking about what digital wondermachine I should get, I was offered a as-new G10 for a very, very low price. I've had my share of Powershots - S90, S95, SX220HS - and while they have a very good IQ, they seem to be too little for my big hands and clumsy fingers. So, I thought that I'll shoot some for fun and then sell it away, making some profit, but...

It is one of the nicest camera to handle that I've ever had, and I've had plenty. It feels much like a SLR but remains small enough to carry everywhere. OK, Nex5 was smaller, before you attach a lens... I particularly like those dedicated exposure correction and ISO buttons. The lens is great and has just enough zoom (OK, 24 might be nice, but you cant get everything) and the IS is wonderful. With neck strap I can shoot 1/8 sec, hand held.

Of course I was aware of the high ISO problem, but in real life it seems to be a bit exaggerated. Most of my photos are in the web, and I rarely print bigger than A4. I'm sure that I can manage even A3+ with G10 @ ISO400 if needed. And when you shoot at base ISO.... Well, it has been reported here and elsewhere - it matches those crop sensors, although I was surprised about the comparison between G10 and NEX5 - I think NEX5 has the best sensor there is, I suppose same sensor is used in some Nikon cameras (e.g. D7000, if I'm not mistaken).

So, I was playing with the idea to upgrade it to G12 (or G11, since I don't care about HD videos or in-camera HDR) but I'm not so sure anymore. If I end up upgrading, it is hardly about IQ" but merely about the articulating screen which would be handy in macro shots.

Or then I just save my cash and get a tripod and 420/430EX flash for low-light situations...

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David G Peterson
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Re: G10 still outresolves many other cameras at base ISO
In reply to Peter Nelson, Dec 13, 2011

I think the G10 still is the highest resolution P&S that's been made. Bump the in camera sharpening up a notch and jpeg's are fantastic even for landscapes. My s100 is much more usable in the real world with poor lighting and is faster for available light street shooting but nothing in a P&S beats the G10 given the right lighting.

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Bananasplit
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Re: G10 still outresolves many other cameras at base ISO
In reply to David G Peterson, Dec 13, 2011

I've seen some pics coming out from NEX5 with Zeiss and Leica lenses. They are just amazing. So, if you need to compare this camera to others, you need to specify the lens.

However, the NEX5 does not hold well in the hands when shooting: it is a great sensor but a bad ergonomics. The G series are much better in my hands.

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jesalonen
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Re: G10 still outresolves many other cameras at base ISO
In reply to Bananasplit, Dec 13, 2011

Exactly. I gave up nex-5 because a poor selection of (af) lenses, and sadly situation is still the same, AFAIK. I have friends who use it with Leica, Voigtlander etc lenses but I see no point in that. If I wish to use Leica lenses, surely I would get a Leica body...

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Bananasplit
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Re: G10 still outresolves many other cameras at base ISO
In reply to jesalonen, Dec 13, 2011

jesalonen wrote:

Exactly. I gave up nex-5 because a poor selection of (af) lenses, and sadly situation is still the same, AFAIK. I have friends who use it with Leica, Voigtlander etc lenses but I see no point in that. If I wish to use Leica lenses, surely I would get a Leica body...

You would pay 7000$ instead of 700$, or so, to get pictures that look the same. If you are able to use MF, only the lens makes the difference.

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hBill
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Re: G10 still outresolves many other cameras at base ISO
In reply to Bananasplit, Dec 13, 2011

+1 another more than happy g10 owner esp at base iso

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Peter Nelson
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Otto: G10 still outresolves many other cameras at base ISO
In reply to Otto, Dec 14, 2011

I was looking inot the NEX 5n and while I was in the dpr comparator, almost as an after thought I selected the G10 to compare. I was suprided! I also looked at my 50D and E-P1 as a comparason, then finally the Canon G12. That's when I got the idea to make this post.

Otto, I'm so glad you feel the same way as I half expected that the forum members would rip me a new one for my sacreligious post.
-Peter

Otto wrote:

I feel the same about mine.

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Peter Nelson
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AdamT: especially in RAW wideopen ----->
In reply to AdamT, Dec 14, 2011

Adam,

You are one of the dpr forum members that I greatly respect. I think all what you wrote makes good sense. I read a few years back that we just cannot use Av like f/5.6 on our small senored p&s digital cameras, and that wide open would usually result in the sharpest image. This is great new's as we all know wide open also alows for the fasted shutter speed in low light!

I have the Canon 50D and I agree the G10 is sharper and the dpr comparator also supports this.

Good point about the newer p&s being to heavy handed with the noise reduction in lower ISO jpg's. I had not even thought about that when writing my OP. But I was aware of this. Maybe I'll compare my G10 to this years Oly XZ1 and Nikons P7100 and the new Canon S100m and then the FujiFilm X-10 when that review is done.
So thanks for chiming in Adam
-Peter

AdamT wrote:

where it just about outresolves a 50D with any EFS zoom on !! (weaker AA filter than the 50D) ....

The Key is to keep the lens wideopen - even stopping down to F4 reduces the resolution due to diffraction. I dumped the P7000 and G11 and went back to the G10 - OK it's not as good at high ISOs even resized down to 10Mp but it's less than half a stop worse in RAW with modern converters like C1 V5 and the latest Lightroom as RAW converters have got a lot better since the G10 was launched - and I have an S90 and a NEX5N so who cares ..

Another thing is the G10 JPG engine isn't glooped up with NR at low ISOs like its successors so you can shoot JPG with it - I class ALL the 10Mp CCD cams from the S90 to P7100/XZ1 era bar the P7000 as RAW only camearas for this reason, the G10 is pretty good even in JPG.

The Lovely thing about the G10 is that with 15Mp, you get almost 200mm of P7000 rez reach from the 140mm long end if you crop 10Mp out from the middle and the lens is a lot better than the P7000 at the long end, is faster and has way better IS .

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Peter Nelson
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John: G10 still outresolves many other cameras at base ISO
In reply to John EH, Dec 14, 2011

John I sold my Canon G7. That was a big mistake. The reason why I sold it was because at the time I had the incorrect opinion that all cameras including P&S digital camera work best stopped down to f/5.6 and F/8. So I alway's used my G7 that way. I noticed something wrong with the IQ one day with a set of landscape images and sold the camera (traded it in). Now, I know that it was diffraction that was the cause of the poor overall image quality and loss of fine detail from my G7.
Having learned that, I went out and got my G10.

So I am also happy to read that you have had a similar ecperience with your older cameras that you still use.

I alway's wanted the Nikon D40. I have the Nikon D1H and Kodak SLR/n and that makes up for it.
-Peter

John EH wrote:

Good to hear posts like this. I too have a couple favorite cameras that aren't brand new and shiny. As far as super zooms go I have a Nikon 8700 that I don't think can be touched even by todays releases. Just something magical about that camera.

The Nikon D40 is the same in the DSLR camp. Realizing that this is a Canon forum I also felt the exact same way about the G7. Big mistake ever selling it. Great camera.

Keep using your G10 until it breaks and then get another one if that is the camera that floats your boat. New isn't always better in my opinion.

John

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Peter Nelson
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macten52: G10 still outresolves many other cameras at base ISO
In reply to macten52, Dec 14, 2011

I use ISO400 indoors, in fact I use all the ISO's (up to 3200 for B&W) indoors. I have made the comparisons and the G10 is not as bad as dpr led us all to think in their review.

I am wondering about the NEX 5n. I wanted it for using my Leica lenses on and may still purchase it, but now I'm not in a big hurry at all.
-Peter

macten52 wrote:

I also have a G10 and still love it. In good light it is awesome! I do shoot it ISO 400 at times and with enough adjusting I can get pretty good results. I have been eyeballing the new Sony NEX5N but thus far have been able to resist spending my hard earned $$.

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Peter Nelson
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jesalonen: G10 still outresolves many other cameras at base ISO
In reply to jesalonen, Dec 14, 2011

It's good to see one of my posts actually helping someone. Thanks for telling me about your recently accuries G10.

I miss 24mm equivalence a little because I do a real lot of landscapes. But I happen to like 28mm an awfull lot and I use 28mm primes in all my DSLR systems and even in my Leica M and Epson R-D1 system.

I forgot to mention and I'm glad that you wrote about it. I can use my G10 at really slow shutter speed's like 1/3, 1/6 and 1/8 of a second. The IS is really helping as is the fact that it does not have a mirror to flip up and then down like DSLR's do.

The controls are first class. If ever Canon makes the G series into an MILC system camera using the same control layout this would be a big hit with people who like advanced photography, ie, people who like to use the M and Av mode with manual lenses.
-Peter

jesalonen wrote:

Thanks Peter for bringing this up. I gave up film photography a couple weeks ago and while I was thinking about what digital wondermachine I should get, I was offered a as-new G10 for a very, very low price. I've had my share of Powershots - S90, S95, SX220HS - and while they have a very good IQ, they seem to be too little for my big hands and clumsy fingers. So, I thought that I'll shoot some for fun and then sell it away, making some profit, but...

It is one of the nicest camera to handle that I've ever had, and I've had plenty. It feels much like a SLR but remains small enough to carry everywhere. OK, Nex5 was smaller, before you attach a lens... I particularly like those dedicated exposure correction and ISO buttons. The lens is great and has just enough zoom (OK, 24 might be nice, but you cant get everything) and the IS is wonderful. With neck strap I can shoot 1/8 sec, hand held.

Of course I was aware of the high ISO problem, but in real life it seems to be a bit exaggerated. Most of my photos are in the web, and I rarely print bigger than A4. I'm sure that I can manage even A3+ with G10 @ ISO400 if needed. And when you shoot at base ISO.... Well, it has been reported here and elsewhere - it matches those crop sensors, although I was surprised about the comparison between G10 and NEX5 - I think NEX5 has the best sensor there is, I suppose same sensor is used in some Nikon cameras (e.g. D7000, if I'm not mistaken).

So, I was playing with the idea to upgrade it to G12 (or G11, since I don't care about HD videos or in-camera HDR) but I'm not so sure anymore. If I end up upgrading, it is hardly about IQ" but merely about the articulating screen which would be handy in macro shots.

Or then I just save my cash and get a tripod and 420/430EX flash for low-light situations...

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Peter Nelson
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David G Peterson: G10 still outresolves many other cameras at base ISO
In reply to David G Peterson, Dec 14, 2011

Exactly, and most outdoor landscape photography is done with enough light so the G10's 14.7 usable mp's make this a real keeper of an outdoor camera.

I think almost everyone uses another camera for ambiant lighting conditions indoor's. I also think that's becaue we do have these DSLR cameras and expensive lenses so why not use them in poor lighting environments.

It's good to know the new Canon S100 is really good in low light. I'm sure other posters here are glad that you wrote about that.
If I was not so much into MILC cameras the S100 woul;d be on my list now.
-Peter

David G Peterson wrote:

I think the G10 still is the highest resolution P&S that's been made. Bump the in camera sharpening up a notch and jpeg's are fantastic even for landscapes. My s100 is much more usable in the real world with poor lighting and is faster for available light street shooting but nothing in a P&S beats the G10 given the right lighting.

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Peter Nelson
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Bananasplit: G10 still outresolves many other cameras at base ISO
In reply to Bananasplit, Dec 14, 2011

Good point. However even though I have over 50 lenses in almost all makes and mounts. I do not have the NEX 5n. Also whatever lens I would use like my Leica 50mm f/1.4 Summilux first version I think there would always be some one saying he has a better lens and that my comparason is flawed because of that. There are just way too many very good lenses out there and I do not have them all.

So, I had to use the dpr comparitor as my reference point of IQ of the NEX 5n and the Canon G10.

But IF I get my own Sony NEX 5n you can be sure I will be getting only the body and a Leica m to NEX adapter.
I have (9) M and LTM lenses that I would love to use on the NEX 5n.
-Peter

Bananasplit wrote:

I've seen some pics coming out from NEX5 with Zeiss and Leica lenses. They are just amazing. So, if you need to compare this camera to others, you need to specify the lens.

However, the NEX5 does not hold well in the hands when shooting: it is a great sensor but a bad ergonomics. The G series are much better in my hands.

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Peter Nelson
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jesalonen: G10 still outresolves many other cameras at base ISO
In reply to jesalonen, Dec 14, 2011

If I were to purchase the Sony NEX 5n it would be the body only. As I have (9) Leica M and LTM lenses to use on it. I greatly prefere manual focusing and the smaller and lighter Leica lenses. The Leica glass should yield excellent IQ.

As far as getting an actual Leica M9, well I have an Leica M5 and also the Epson R-D1 digital rangefiner. If I coulld afford my own Leica M9, well yes I would prefere it. It's a real nice FF digital rangefinder camera and all my (9) lenses would work at thier intended FL. I would like that. I am now retired/disabled and although there was a time when I could afford my own new Canon 1DsMkII, Nikon D1h and used Kodak SLR/n and all theor associated and expensive lenses. That time is in the past and I can not afford the $7,000 for a new M9. So the 5n is on my list of possible future camera purchases. Unless something changes and makes the M9 affordable for me.
-Peter

jesalonen wrote:

Exactly. I gave up nex-5 because a poor selection of (af) lenses, and sadly situation is still the same, AFAIK. I have friends who use it with Leica, Voigtlander etc lenses but I see no point in that. If I wish to use Leica lenses, surely I would get a Leica body...

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Peter Nelson
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hBill: G10 still outresolves many other cameras at base ISO
In reply to hBill, Dec 14, 2011

That's good new's. I did expect some people to try and shout me down. But not even one reply was like that. So it would seem the owners who kept their G10 cameras are satisfied. As am I.
-Peter

hBill wrote:

+1 another more than happy g10 owner esp at base iso

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