OK can people now relax for a while

Started Dec 7, 2011 | Discussions
TEBnewyork
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OK can people now relax for a while
Dec 7, 2011
deeohuu
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Re: OK can people now relax for a while
In reply to TEBnewyork, Dec 7, 2011

"within prescribed tolerances and that the problem is not uncommon in other cameras"

I'll have to sleep on that.

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TEBnewyork
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Re: OK can people now relax for a while
In reply to deeohuu, Dec 7, 2011

Your glass is half empty. Mine is half full.

However, after receiving a number of comments from users, we can understand their concern and plan a firmware upgrade to lessen the effects of blooming. We will announce in due course when the upgrade will be available.'
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gteague
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what? we're not any worse than ...
In reply to deeohuu, Dec 7, 2011

to my eyes at least, the comparison shot with the xz-1 comes nowhere near the x10 shots. if fuji says it's a problem 'common' to other cameras, let's have an example from another camera that looks as ugly as the x10 examples.

it sort of reminds me of the last iphone where holding it at certain place attenuated the signal and apple (rightly!) pointed out that this is the case with any handheld portable radio or cell phone. and they posted examples that proved it and (hopefully) embarrassed the other cell phone makers who had piled on with glee at the mighty apple's flaw in the jesus phone.

so fuji, if all other cameras show this fault to some degree or other, pick out the worst of the bunch and post examples. or perhaps i'll begin to wonder why the x10 prefers iso800 and up in nearly every auto-iso mode.

/guy
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Mark H
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Exactly as I predicted, a month ago...
In reply to TEBnewyork, Dec 7, 2011

Just as I predicted a month back - it's sensor blooming - and the only mitigating actions are to reduce the sensor exposure by increasing the ISO or the DR...

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1012&message=39811342

It's not 'software/firmware'.

It's not 'spherical aberration' (as if - LOL).

Sadly, I'm not very optimistic re Fuji's planned change to 'lessen the effects' - but you never know, we'll just have to wait and see.

" The blooming issue is something not uncommon to many types of digital camera...."

Except that it's a lot worse than most of them (hence all the on-line reports, and reaction).

"... It is possible to reduce the effects of blooming either by increasing the ISO or widening the dynamic range on the camera."

Sounds like they read some of my earlier/recent messages (I jest).

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dotbalm
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Re: OK can people now relax for a while
In reply to deeohuu, Dec 7, 2011

deeohuu wrote:

"within prescribed tolerances and that the problem is not uncommon in other cameras"

I'll have to sleep on that.

They have not deemed it defective then. We've heard that line, in its essence, previously (dcresource F550).

One of the many attractive specifications of the X10 is its fast aperture(s) through the focal range. The ability to use lower ISOs than otherwise possible with slower aperture cams, and the willingness to pay for that benefit in a larger sensor fixed lens compact, is partially negated by the need to increase ISO under current - hopefully interim - recommendations for the sake of minimizing "blooming."

So much for the enthusiast compact at that price point. Sounds like expectations are being managed (lowered)...as in we can do a little, but it won't go away. None of my cameras have ever caught my attention for this hole-punch, orb, blob thing. This is going to be interesting.

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shutterbobby
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Re: OK can people now relax for a while
In reply to dotbalm, Dec 7, 2011

The tests Fuji showed are not representative of the type of Orbs/blooming we have seen here on this forum..cleary defined circles like a paper punch..wonder if they really know what the problem is--or like the Iphone..cool gadget just don't use it to make calls with..X10 cool retro camera..nice to hold but don't use it for pictures with reflective highlights...we can hope a firmware will get rid of the razor sharp edges at least...

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TEBnewyork
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Re: OK can people now relax for a while
In reply to shutterbobby, Dec 7, 2011

I'm pretty sure those aren't Fuji tests but DPR tests
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SHood
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Re: OK can people now relax for a while
In reply to shutterbobby, Dec 7, 2011

Since this is a hardware issue I suspect the firmware update will only lessen the sharpening around the edges of the orbs.

shutterbobby wrote:

The tests Fuji showed are not representative of the type of Orbs/blooming we have seen here on this forum..cleary defined circles like a paper punch..wonder if they really know what the problem is--or like the Iphone..cool gadget just don't use it to make calls with..X10 cool retro camera..nice to hold but don't use it for pictures with reflective highlights...we can hope a firmware will get rid of the razor sharp edges at least...

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Mark H
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Re: OK can people now relax for a while
In reply to shutterbobby, Dec 7, 2011

shutterbobby wrote:

The tests Fuji showed are not representative of the type of Orbs/blooming we have seen here on this forum..cleary defined circles like a paper punch..wonder if they really know what the problem is--or like the Iphone..cool gadget just don't use it to make calls with..X10 cool retro camera..nice to hold but don't use it for pictures with reflective highlights...we can hope a firmware will get rid of the razor sharp edges at least...

The 'tests' shown here are DPReview's tests - they are not Fuji's...

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2011/12/07/fujifilmplansfirmware

...they are exactly like all the examples we've seen - being larger than normal blooming, taking on the 'enlarged/bloated' shape of the highlight source (not always circular), and having a unusually sharp edge/cut-off characteristic.

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gteague
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Re: OK can people now relax for a while
In reply to Mark H, Dec 7, 2011

Mark H wrote:

[del]
The 'tests' shown here are DPReview's tests - they are not Fuji's...

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2011/12/07/fujifilmplansfirmware

...they are exactly like all the examples we've seen - being larger than normal blooming, taking on the 'enlarged/bloated' shape of the highlight source (not always circular), and having a unusually sharp edge/cut-off characteristic.

i didn't mean to imply in my post that the comparison photo at the link was from fuji. i wanted to challenge fuji to post examples from the other cameras that they claim also have the 'problem' that compare in severity to the x10 examples from this forum and those shots dpr just published.

/guy

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Mark H
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Re: OK can people now relax for a while
In reply to gteague, Dec 7, 2011

gteague wrote:

Mark H wrote:

[del]
The 'tests' shown here are DPReview's tests - they are not Fuji's...

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2011/12/07/fujifilmplansfirmware

...they are exactly like all the examples we've seen - being larger than normal blooming, taking on the 'enlarged/bloated' shape of the highlight source (not always circular), and having a unusually sharp edge/cut-off characteristic.

i didn't mean to imply in my post that the comparison photo at the link was from fuji. i wanted to challenge fuji to post examples from the other cameras that they claim also have the 'problem' that compare in severity to the x10 examples from this forum and those shots dpr just published.

If you look carefully - you'll see my response was to 'shutterbobby's post, not your's.

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shutterbobby
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Re: OK can people now relax for a while
In reply to Mark H, Dec 7, 2011

Sorry just saw it was dpreviews pics.. the ones I got are so sharp you can slice& dice with them....

Mark H wrote:

shutterbobby wrote:

The tests Fuji showed are not representative of the type of Orbs/blooming we have seen here on this forum..cleary defined circles like a paper punch..wonder if they really know what the problem is--or like the Iphone..cool gadget just don't use it to make calls with..X10 cool retro camera..nice to hold but don't use it for pictures with reflective highlights...we can hope a firmware will get rid of the razor sharp edges at least...

The 'tests' shown here are DPReview's tests - they are not Fuji's...

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2011/12/07/fujifilmplansfirmware

...they are exactly like all the examples we've seen - being larger than normal blooming, taking on the 'enlarged/bloated' shape of the highlight source (not always circular), and having a unusually sharp edge/cut-off characteristic.

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shutterbobby
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Re: OK can people now relax for a while
In reply to SHood, Dec 7, 2011

that will help of course,except the orb size may be a bit overwhelming in some photos...

SHood wrote:

Since this is a hardware issue I suspect the firmware update will only lessen the sharpening around the edges of the orbs.

shutterbobby wrote:

The tests Fuji showed are not representative of the type of Orbs/blooming we have seen here on this forum..cleary defined circles like a paper punch..wonder if they really know what the problem is--or like the Iphone..cool gadget just don't use it to make calls with..X10 cool retro camera..nice to hold but don't use it for pictures with reflective highlights...we can hope a firmware will get rid of the razor sharp edges at least...

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gteague
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Re: OK can people now relax for a while
In reply to Mark H, Dec 7, 2011

Mark H wrote:

[del]

If you look carefully - you'll see my response was to 'shutterbobby's post, not your's.

no, i saw that. i just thought that maybe some were taking the wrong impression from my post and i wanted clarify what i should have made clearer from the beginning. no worries.

and good call on the blooming. i had no dog in the fight since about the only film term being used was 'specular highlighting' which i'm intimately familiar with, but most x10 examples went way beyond anything i'd ever experienced from specular highlighting in the film world.

/guy
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The elements of a subject that speak to us are often scattered and can't be captured in one photo; we don't have the right to force them together, and to stage them would be cheating ... ~Henri Cartier-Bresson

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jimr
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Can We Be Patient And Not Assume What The Firmware Will Or Will Not Accomplish
In reply to shutterbobby, Dec 7, 2011

Patience....

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deeohuu
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Re: Can We Be Patient And Not Assume What The Firmware Will Or Will Not Accomplish
In reply to jimr, Dec 7, 2011

Not if our return window is expiring.

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Richiyaado
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Re: OK can people now relax for a while
In reply to TEBnewyork, Dec 7, 2011

Yes.

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Hentaiboy
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Re: Can We Be Patient And Not Assume What The Firmware Will Or Will Not Accomplish
In reply to deeohuu, Dec 7, 2011

deeohuu wrote:

Not if our return window is expiring.

So return it and buy a shiny new replacement after the firmware is released. Gotta be happy with a month's 'free' use of a camera right? Not all countries have this luxury...

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Midwest
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Re: OK can people now relax for a while
In reply to SHood, Dec 7, 2011

SHood wrote:

Since this is a hardware issue I suspect the firmware update will only lessen the sharpening around the edges of the orbs.

Maybe they'll fill them in with gray so they're less noticeable.
C'mon people, have a sense of humor!

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