S95 vs S100: battle of CCD vs CMOS?

Started Nov 19, 2011 | Discussions
Juri D
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S95 vs S100: battle of CCD vs CMOS?
Nov 19, 2011

The latest shots seem to confirm that CMOS sensors are still inferior to CCD. Looking at the links below it appears that way. Does this mean the end of quality compacts if everyone switches to CMOS?

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/studiocompare.asp#baseDir=%2Freviews_data&cameraDataSubdir=boxshot&indexFileName=boxshotindex.xml&presetsFileName=boxshotpresets.xml&showDescriptions=false&headerTitle=Studio%20scene&headerSubTitle=Standard%20studio%20scene%20comparison&masterCamera=canon_s100&masterSample=img_0058.acr&slotsCount=4&slot0Camera=canon_s100&slot0Sample=img_0058.acr&slot0DisableCameraSelection=true&slot0DisableSampleSelection=true&slot0LinkWithMaster=true&slot1Camera=canon_s95&slot1Sample=img_2251.acr&slot2Camera=panasonic_dmcfz150&slot2Sample=p1040106.acr&slot3Camera=oly_xz1&slot3Sample=p1170578.acr&x=0.6359838991417938&y=-1.3192340526057875

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/studiocompare.asp#baseDir=%2Freviews_data&cameraDataSubdir=boxshot&indexFileName=boxshotindex.xml&presetsFileName=boxshotpresets.xml&showDescriptions=false&headerTitle=Studio%20scene&headerSubTitle=Standard%20studio%20scene%20comparison&masterCamera=canon_s100&masterSample=img_0058.acr&slotsCount=4&slot0Camera=canon_s100&slot0Sample=img_0058.acr&slot0DisableCameraSelection=true&slot0DisableSampleSelection=true&slot0LinkWithMaster=true&slot1Camera=canon_s95&slot1Sample=img_2251.acr&slot2Camera=sony_dschx100v&slot2Sample=iso100&slot3Camera=oly_xz1&slot3Sample=p1170578.acr&x=0.628389154704944&y=-1.3192340526057875

Canon PowerShot S95
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Steen Bay
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Re: S95 vs S100: battle of CCD vs CMOS?
In reply to Juri D, Nov 19, 2011

Juri D wrote:

The latest shots seem to confirm that CMOS sensors are still inferior to CCD. Looking at the links below it appears that way. Does this mean the end of quality compacts if everyone switches to CMOS?

Don't think so. It's my impression that the 1/2.3" Sony BSI-CMOS sensor used in e.g. the SX40, and the 1/2.3" Panasonic FSI-CMOS (or 'MOS') used in FZ150, are the best 1/2.3" sensors ever made.

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David G Peterson
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Re: S95 vs S100: battle of CCD vs CMOS?
In reply to Steen Bay, Nov 19, 2011

The Studio Comparison was shot with a camera with a de-centered lens element. The s100 I got a few days ago was a good copy and has very impressive performance. Up to ISO 1600 is noise free on the standard NR jpeg's.

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Jostian
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Re: S95 vs S100: battle of CCD vs CMOS?
In reply to David G Peterson, Nov 19, 2011

If one goes to Imaging Resource Comparometer and loads the S95 and S100 and load (to full size) the House Poster then check out the far right (water downpipe) or far left the foliage, the S95 is way better, was that S100 also faulty? I think not, its just not as good as the S95, or XZ1
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David G Peterson
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Re: S95 vs S100: battle of CCD vs CMOS?
In reply to Jostian, Nov 19, 2011

They must have had a few bad copies get out in early production. Mine is sharp across the field even at f2. My only lens complaint is that it's a little slow at the long end. I'd test any new camera you buy and send it back if there's a problem.

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BGE
BGE
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Re: S95 vs S100: battle of CCD vs CMOS?
In reply to Juri D, Nov 19, 2011

What do you think is the main reason for switching to a cmos sensor in the S100 ?-- The demand for better video ?-- Does anyone believe that still image quality is being sacrificed by those demands for video in a still camera?

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PC Wheeler
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Re: S95 vs S100: battle of CCD vs CMOS?
In reply to Juri D, Nov 19, 2011

Juri D wrote:

The latest shots seem to confirm that CMOS sensors are still inferior to CCD.

Nonsense: Whatever your views on S95 vs. S100 there are many high-end cameras with excellent performance/IQ now using CMOS sensors. Of course, there are still those who say:

  • Vinyl is better than CD sound

  • Film is better than digital

  • Glass plates are better than film

  • CCD is better than CMOS

  • Any speed over 25 mph will turn the human body to jelly

  • The Earth is flat.

Hard to argue with those folks, sort of like trying to teach a pig to sing

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Phil

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Nell27
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Re: S95 vs S100: battle of CCD vs CMOS?
In reply to PC Wheeler, Nov 19, 2011

PC Wheeler wrote:

Nonsense: Whatever your views on S95 vs. S100 there are many high-end cameras with excellent performance/IQ now using CMOS sensors. Of course, there are still those who say:

  • Vinyl is better than CD sound

  • Film is better than digital

  • Glass plates are better than film

  • CCD is better than CMOS

  • Any speed over 25 mph will turn the human body to jelly

  • The Earth is flat.

Hard to argue with those folks, sort of like trying to teach a pig to sing

Very funny and spoken like a person who has very little knowledge about sensors.

Small CMOS sensors are actually slightly inferior to CCD when it comes to still picture quality. Almost any basic search on the Internet will verify this.

Manufacturer's have been going to small CMOS for two main reasons:

First, they are cheaper to make.

Second, they do a better job with HD video.

Technology is getting better and sooner or later CCD will be a thing of the past but for right now CCD is still slightly better no matter what marketing departments want you to believe.

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waterland
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Re: S95 vs S100: battle of CCD vs CMOS?
In reply to PC Wheeler, Nov 19, 2011

Vinyl IS better than CD (played on the right player of course)

PC Wheeler wrote:

Juri D wrote:

The latest shots seem to confirm that CMOS sensors are still inferior to CCD.

Nonsense: Whatever your views on S95 vs. S100 there are many high-end cameras with excellent performance/IQ now using CMOS sensors. Of course, there are still those who say:

  • Vinyl is better than CD sound

  • Film is better than digital

  • Glass plates are better than film

  • CCD is better than CMOS

  • Any speed over 25 mph will turn the human body to jelly

  • The Earth is flat.

Hard to argue with those folks, sort of like trying to teach a pig to sing

-- hide signature --

Phil

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PC Wheeler
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Re: S95 vs S100: battle of CCD vs CMOS?
In reply to Nell27, Nov 19, 2011

Nell27 wrote:

Very funny and spoken like a person who has very little knowledge about sensors.

Clearly written by someone who knows little about me, but presumes much.
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Phil

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PC Wheeler
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Re: S95 vs S100: battle of CCD vs CMOS?
In reply to waterland, Nov 19, 2011

waterland wrote:

Vinyl IS better than CD (played on the right player of course)

Actually, I agree. But I was really hoping for someone who has taught a pig to sing or is still shooting with glass plates
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Nell27
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Re: S95 vs S100: battle of CCD vs CMOS?
In reply to PC Wheeler, Nov 19, 2011

PC Wheeler wrote:

Clearly written by someone who knows little about me, but presumes much.
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Phil

Sorry Phil, I didn't mean to insult you but your comment about CMOS vs CCD is incorrect.

Naturally everyone has an opinion and you're welcome to yours but the fact still remains that your opinion is incorrect.

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waterland
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Re: S95 vs S100: battle of CCD vs CMOS?
In reply to PC Wheeler, Nov 19, 2011

And to make things worse; I have two Nikon DSLR's, 1 CMOS and 1 CCD.
Shot with same settings and lenses the CCD just looks "better".
Was kind of a shock to me...

PC Wheeler wrote:

waterland wrote:

Vinyl IS better than CD (played on the right player of course)

Actually, I agree. But I was really hoping for someone who has taught a pig to sing or is still shooting with glass plates
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Phil

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PC Wheeler
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Re: S95 vs S100: battle of CCD vs CMOS?
In reply to Nell27, Nov 20, 2011

Nell27 wrote:

Naturally everyone has an opinion and you're welcome to yours but the fact still remains that your opinion is incorrect.

Fact, or your opinion? Clearly Canon does not agree with you: Virtually all of their high-end cameras, including my EOS 7D, have CMOS sensors these days. They have posted a layman oriented discussion here

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/infobank/capturing_the_image/ccd_and_cmos_sensors.do

And even if I knew nothing, and didn't have three degrees in EE, I'd be quite happy to accept Canon's views on this topic.

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Phil

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Juri D
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Re: S95 vs S100: battle of CCD vs CMOS?
In reply to Nell27, Nov 20, 2011

Nell27 wrote:

Small CMOS sensors are actually slightly inferior to CCD when it comes to still picture quality. Almost any basic search on the Internet will verify this.

Manufacturer's have been going to small CMOS for two main reasons:

First, they are cheaper to make.

Second, they do a better job with HD video.

Just wondering why the manufactures would not just stick to CCDs for quality compacts, at least for now, before CMOS gets better? What makes this situation worse is the fact that this is a comparison of the latest CMOS vs a two-year old CCD, and still the CCD is clearly superior.

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steven2874
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CCD's are obviously superior
In reply to Juri D, Nov 20, 2011

I can state unequivically that the CCD sensor is superior to the CMOS sensor as shown by the Canon S95 vs S100 comparisons revealed here and elsewhere. I have no scientific or engineering expertise to make this bold claim, however. I'm just drawing unfounded conclusions like most people in this forum.

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Steen Bay
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CCD vs. BSI-CMOS vs. CCD
In reply to steven2874, Nov 20, 2011

steven2874 wrote:

I can state unequivically that the CCD sensor is superior to the CMOS sensor as shown by the Canon S95 vs S100 comparisons revealed here and elsewhere. I have no scientific or engineering expertise to make this bold claim, however. I'm just drawing unfounded conclusions like most people in this forum.

Then how about this iso1600 RAW comparison between SX30, SX40 and G12 (CCD, CMOS and CCD) :

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=39793941

Seems to me that the small 1/2.3" BSI-CMOS sensor in SX40 is doing a pretty good job, despite having 2mp more than the larger 1/1.7" CCD sensor in the G12.

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BGE
BGE
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Re: S95 vs S100: battle of CCD vs CMOS?
In reply to Juri D, Nov 20, 2011

It is all about quality video-- Appears people want a camera that does it all. Video -GPS- can opener--corkscrew- ----- someday we can all look forward to still images.

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Nell27
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Re: S95 vs S100: battle of CCD vs CMOS?
In reply to PC Wheeler, Nov 20, 2011

PC Wheeler wrote:

And even if I knew nothing, and didn't have three degrees in EE, I'd be quite happy to accept Canon's views on this topic.

Well, I'll bow to your expertise but here is an article you may find interesting.

As you'll see it praises both sensors but does give the edge to CCD when it comes to picture quality.

http://www2.electronicproducts.com/CMOS_vs_CCD-article-fajb_cmosvsccd_sept2011-html.aspx

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