LX5 with LVF2 = no way

Started Nov 7, 2011 | Discussions
Zebooka
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LX5 with LVF2 = no way
Nov 7, 2011

So Panasonic cheated us with LVF2.
Its port is not compatiable and wont fit LX5/GF1.

I hope LX6 will be really better than LX5, not just bells-n-candies, so it will make sense for upgrade.

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blork
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Re: LX5 with LVF2 = no way
In reply to Zebooka, Nov 8, 2011

That really, really ticks me off. I have an LX5 and a GF1, but I never bought the LVF1 because the resolution was too low. I kept hoping for an LVF2, and now it shows up and is incompatible?

GRRRR!!!

If Panasonic thinks I'm going to upgrade all of my gear for this they can think again. If anything I might pitch it all and go with a different brand. Way to slap your loyal customers in the face!

It's not like there's a REASON to change the accessory port. No, it's just to make us upgrade. Did Apple buy Panasonic or something?

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originalhype
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Re: LX5 with LVF2 = no way
In reply to blork, Nov 8, 2011

surprised this only get 1 reply?

Wow so much for lx5 users fanbase around here.

Ido agree that they did mess up.

I have an lx3 and living her in los angeles, ca. Sun is always out. it would be nice to get an lx5 and have a high res EVF but nope. i might check out the oly xz-1

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james b norman
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Re: LX5 with LVF2 = no way
In reply to originalhype, Nov 8, 2011

dude - this is the FZ150 forum. nobody cares about the lx5, or any other panasonic model...
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Gary R.
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Re: LX5 with LVF2 = no way
In reply to originalhype, Nov 8, 2011

For one thing, everyone is assuming they could just plug in a higher resolution viewfinder to the same port and it would work fine; it's very possible (and likely) that it's not that simple. If it's a 1.4MP viewfinder, and the camera was made to support the measly 201k LVF1, how would they implement it? A hardware upgrade to the camera? Resampling the 201k up to 1.4M via circuitry in the viewfinder? (which would accomplish nothing)

When I got the LX3, I knew what was available for it...an optional, way overpriced optical, top-mount viewfinder, and I bought the camera knowing that. No complaints when LVF1 came along and it wouldn't fit. When the LX5 was released, I knew there was an add-on viewfinder available if I wanted it (I didn't), and that it was less than half the resolution of the LCD...and also that the GF1 owners were not that happy with it anyway, mostly consigning it to the 'better than nothing' category.

There was no promise of a better viewfinder to come, and no reason to expect any new innovation to be backward-compatible (I don't know of any other brand that is either). So why criticize Panasonic for this, when the hardware most likely won't support it anyway? Having a $200-300 viewfinder that flickers at 10 fps or lags behind the action because it's underpowered would make no sense, and cause more gripes than not having one at all.

I think a more legitimate "we wuz robbed" complaint would be the battery situation; while the viewfinder situation was up front and clear when the camera was released, it wasn't so for the camera-crippling battery issue where third-party batteries can't be used without significant problems. (and that's a deliberate, money-grabbing, no-other-reason-for-it act by Panasonic). For that, they deserve a Bronx cheer, at least, but for the viewfinder, I don't think it's anything that shouldn't be expected.
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originalhype
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Re: LX5 with LVF2 = no way
In reply to Gary R., Nov 8, 2011

Gary R. wrote:

For one thing, everyone is assuming they could just plug in a higher resolution viewfinder to the same port and it would work fine; it's very possible (and likely) that it's not that simple. If it's a 1.4MP viewfinder, and the camera was made to support the measly 201k LVF1, how would they implement it? A hardware upgrade to the camera? Resampling the 201k up to 1.4M via circuitry in the viewfinder? (which would accomplish nothing)

When I got the LX3, I knew what was available for it...an optional, way overpriced optical, top-mount viewfinder, and I bought the camera knowing that. No complaints when LVF1 came along and it wouldn't fit. When the LX5 was released, I knew there was an add-on viewfinder available if I wanted it (I didn't), and that it was less than half the resolution of the LCD...and also that the GF1 owners were not that happy with it anyway, mostly consigning it to the 'better than nothing' category.

There was no promise of a better viewfinder to come, and no reason to expect any new innovation to be backward-compatible (I don't know of any other brand that is either). So why criticize Panasonic for this, when the hardware most likely won't support it anyway? Having a $200-300 viewfinder that flickers at 10 fps or lags behind the action because it's underpowered would make no sense, and cause more gripes than not having one at all.

I think a more legitimate "we wuz robbed" complaint would be the battery situation; while the viewfinder situation was up front and clear when the camera was released, it wasn't so for the camera-crippling battery issue where third-party batteries can't be used without significant problems. (and that's a deliberate, money-grabbing, no-other-reason-for-it act by Panasonic). For that, they deserve a Bronx cheer, at least, but for the viewfinder, I don't think it's anything that shouldn't be expected.
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not about current port but mainly compatibility and future. If oly manage to use current port with xz-1 and use both evf, why couldn't panasonic?

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Gary R.
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Re: LX5 with LVF2 = no way
In reply to originalhype, Nov 8, 2011

originalhype wrote:

not about current port but mainly compatibility and future. If oly manage to use current port with xz-1 and use both evf, why couldn't panasonic?

But the new Oly viewfinder is lower resolution than the original.

The XZ-1 was sold as compatible with the VF-2 add-on EVF. The VF3 uses the same port, but is considerably lower resolution, so it is acutally less burden on the camera and port. The most likely reason that Oly did this was because the VF-2 was very pricey (when the XZ-1 was released, buyers were paying $850 US for camera and viewfinder, and it's a camera similar to the LX5, so that's a lot to pay for a good view).

If we extend that same process to the LX5, Panasonic would relese a 144k cheaper version of the already-low-resolution LVF-1, which of course could be used by the LX5 since it's a lower resolution, but who would want it? Would you want something like the pic in this message on your LX5 anyway?
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1008&message=39142673

With a 1.4M viewfinder, it requires about 7x the information to be exchanged and processed, many times a second, in the same time as a 201k like the LVF-1. If it was not originally designed to be able to handle that, it probably can't. An add-on unit could be designed to tap into the camera's system and extract more information for a higher resolution viewfinder, but it would have to provide its own power and processing, so it may have to have its own battery and be even bigger than the "compact" Oly finder shown in the post linked above.
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originalhype
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Re: LX5 with LVF2 = no way
In reply to Gary R., Nov 9, 2011

Gary R. wrote:

originalhype wrote:

not about current port but mainly compatibility and future. If oly manage to use current port with xz-1 and use both evf, why couldn't panasonic?

But the new Oly viewfinder is lower resolution than the original.

The XZ-1 was sold as compatible with the VF-2 add-on EVF. The VF3 uses the same port, but is considerably lower resolution, so it is acutally less burden on the camera and port. The most likely reason that Oly did this was because the VF-2 was very pricey (when the XZ-1 was released, buyers were paying $850 US for camera and viewfinder, and it's a camera similar to the LX5, so that's a lot to pay for a good view).

If we extend that same process to the LX5, Panasonic would relese a 144k cheaper version of the already-low-resolution LVF-1, which of course could be used by the LX5 since it's a lower resolution, but who would want it? Would you want something like the pic in this message on your LX5 anyway?
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1008&message=39142673

With a 1.4M viewfinder, it requires about 7x the information to be exchanged and processed, many times a second, in the same time as a 201k like the LVF-1. If it was not originally designed to be able to handle that, it probably can't. An add-on unit could be designed to tap into the camera's system and extract more information for a higher resolution viewfinder, but it would have to provide its own power and processing, so it may have to have its own battery and be even bigger than the "compact" Oly finder shown in the post linked above.
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Gary

You are not getting the point. Even if the VF3 is lower resolution, OLYMPUS ENGINEERS DECIDED TO USE A HIGH BANWIDTH PORT SO IT CAN ATTACH A HIGH RESOLUTION EVF.

Panasonic did not do that in the case of GF1 and LX5. They didn't think ahead. That is the problem. There was no future and vision within their product line.
Panasonic launch GF1 on october 2009. LX5 launch june 2010.

DO you not see the problem? There was no vision in Panasonic side.

Oly first created the port in E-P2. They managed to think ahead, why not Panasonic!?

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Gary R.
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Re: LX5 with LVF2 = no way
In reply to originalhype, Nov 9, 2011

originalhype wrote:

Panasonic did not do that in the case of GF1 and LX5. They didn't think ahead. That is the problem. There was no future and vision within their product line.
Panasonic launch GF1 on october 2009. LX5 launch june 2010.

DO you not see the problem? There was no vision in Panasonic side.

Oly first created the port in E-P2. They managed to think ahead, why not Panasonic!?

If you're more comfortable with the idea that Oly will take care of its customers, that sounds like a good reason to buy an Olympus.

But I don't see it as clearly as you. The E-P1 and GF1 were same-generation m4/3 cameras. The E-P1 can't accept ANY evf because they didn't put in a port for it, and made only an optical finder, which no one wants...is that foresight? Should the E-P1 buyers be outraged because the new EVF won't fit their camera, even though no one ever claimed or advertised it would?

The GF1 at least did have the EVF option. Not to menion its very good 460k LCD screen, as opposed to the E-P1's 230k, which continued to the E-P2 and the E-PL1...on a 3" screen, no less. That's not even enough for good focusing. Not until the E-PL2 (in 2011!) did they upgrade the resolution to match the GF1's 460k, when Sony was putting 920k screens on its NEX, Nikon made a 920k P&S model, and Samsung was using 640k.

When Oly did make its EVF (for the E-P2), they did make a high-resolution one, and they deserve credit for that. But you're saying it shows they planned ahead because they can also plug a newer, but lower resolution finder into the same socket? Do you think their accessory port, designed for a 1.4m viewfinder will support a 10M resolution EVF? Is it outrageous that they didn't design it to do that? If not, why not? Someday we may all want 10M viewfinders, and I'll be mad if they don't fit my E-P2.

I understand that it's disappointing that the new, higher resolution viewfinder won't work on the LX5, but it was never claimed that there was one on the way. Except for a firmware upgrade, it is what it was when you bought it, nothing less. You can't play blu-ray discs on a DVD player, and you can't play DVD's on a CD player, even though they all work basically the same way; likewise, you can't put an LVF2 on a camera designed for an LVF-1, that's just technology evolving.
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pjw3
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Re: LX5 with LVF2 = no way
In reply to james b norman, Nov 9, 2011

james b norman wrote:

dude - this is the FZ150 forum. nobody cares about the lx5,
or any other panasonic model...

LOL... that does seem to be true these days.

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blork
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Re: LX5 with LVF2 = no way
In reply to Gary R., Nov 9, 2011

It's not just technology evolving. The technology for a high resolution LVF existed when the GF1 came out. Panasonic CHOSE to go with the lower resolution hardware.

You could argue that they did not want to risk making the LVF1 higher-res and thus more expensive, and that's a pretty good point. But they could have anticipated higher resolution ones farther down the road, and engineered the port on the GF1/LX5 to accomodate future versions.

They chose not to. It was a choice, and it had nothing to do with engineering. It had everything to do with marketing. As in, they did not want future accessories to "cannibalize" sales of future cameras by being compatible with older models.

In board rooms, people get pats on the back and big bonuses for thinking like that.

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Clark1
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Re: LX5 with LVF2 = no way
In reply to blork, Nov 9, 2011

Like Gary R. said, I knew what I was getting, even the $$ battery. While not tickled about the price, I WAS tickled to have a battery that showed remaining life instead of shutting off after a 2 min. warning.

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