I don't understand how the iD X replaces 1Ds Mark III

Started Oct 18, 2011 | Discussions
Howard
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I don't understand how the iD X replaces 1Ds Mark III
Oct 18, 2011

The more I read the specs, the more I think it is just the latest in the 1D line (thus spelling the end of APS-H in EOS DSLRs). But how can this replace the 1Ds III which has 21.1 Megapixel?

Sure, megapixel count does not mean anything -- I completely understand that. But this is assuming you get to the very high megapixel count territory. At FF, 18MP is just not that high and leaves much to be desired. Heck, even Canon's current lineup has 2 FF cameras with higher megapixel count.

I think FF will probably max out at 40MP or so, I can hardly believe at this point in time you would take a step back when you upgrade a line.

Maybe what Canon is saying is that the new camera is the merging of the 1D and 1Ds lines, but they will start another FF "high res" or "studio" line? What would that be (I don't believe the 5D line would fit that bill).

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ARShutterbug
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Canon gave up on the studio
In reply to Howard, Oct 18, 2011

We're all going to be encouraged to buy Medium Format cameras now.

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Edymagno
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Re: Canon gave up on the studio
In reply to ARShutterbug, Oct 19, 2011

It's already happening. Or just a troll?
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=39624894

ARShutterbug wrote:

We're all going to be encouraged to buy Medium Format cameras now.

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Jay Adeff
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5DMkII
In reply to Howard, Oct 19, 2011

The 5D-MkII was cannibalizing sales from the 1Ds-MkIII. Same image quality at a much lower price. Just see how many wedding photographers use the 5D-MkII over the 1Ds-MkIII and you'll see that there's no market for it anymore. When the 5D-MkIII comes out with improved AF and even higher MP, it will have everything that the wedding/portrait/studio photographer could ask for, without the higher price of the 1Ds line. Makes perfect sense to me.

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24Peter
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Re: 5DMkII
In reply to Jay Adeff, Oct 19, 2011

Well I have to agree, in that I think Canon was faced with an extremely limited market for the 1Ds line now that the 5DII has taken off so big. That, plus Nikon's success with the D3s in the sports market (I sense most shooters saw the 1DIV as just more of the same). So maybe merging the 1D line killed two birds with one stone - now they can come out with a killer 5DIII (and perhaps charge more for it) and no longer worry about it's affect on the 1D line, plus they can top Nikon's current offering to those photogs who value high FPS/ISO shooting.
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CampyOne
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Re: I don't understand how the iD X replaces 1Ds Mark III
In reply to Howard, Oct 19, 2011

"Merging the lines" doesn't mean end of the line. I'd be very surprised if Canon doesn't announce a 1DsX or its equivalent as a replacement for the 1DsIII later this year or early next year. IMHO there's no way this 18mpx camera is going to be Canon's flagship model for the next three or four years.

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Rudix
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Re: I don't understand how the iD X replaces 1Ds Mark III
In reply to CampyOne, Oct 19, 2011

ee

CampyOne wrote:

"Merging the lines" doesn't mean end of the line. I'd be very surprised if Canon doesn't announce a 1DsX or its equivalent as a replacement for the 1DsIII later this year or early next year. IMHO there's no way this 18mpx camera is going to be Canon's flagship model for the next three or four years.

I agree 100%. Yes, I will buy a 1D X but only for sport/airshows. My primary interest is landscape and for that 18mp is simply not good enough these days. I will hang on to my 1Ds3 for a while but if Canon does not come out with a 30+mp FF 1 series body I will have to look somewhere else. I want a 1 series body and not a 5D because I don't want to worry about rain/dust/cold when I am out in the wild and when I travel halfway around the world for a shoot I want the utmost reliability.

So Canon needs to do something else it will be the end of many years of happy Canon shooting on this side

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mailman88
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Re: Canon gave up on the studio
In reply to ARShutterbug, Oct 19, 2011

...What? In the studio, I've seen every Canon DSLR made working there...

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James Van Artsdalen
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megapixels is not an expensive high-end feature any more
In reply to Howard, Oct 19, 2011

Full-frame 35mm sensors were originally a full pro-level feature that you could only get by paying top-dollar for a 1Ds. Then Canon released the 5D and FF became a far-cheaper mid-range feature.

Now the same thing is happening to high-megapixels: a feature that used to be expensive will now be a cheaper mid-range feature. Those people who want more pixels will not be disappointed at all; instead they'll save money.

Canon can't cripple the 5Dm3 to protect the 1Ds series because if they did the Nikon D800 would clobber both.

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Rudix
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Re: megapixels is not an expensive high-end feature any more
In reply to James Van Artsdalen, Oct 19, 2011

James Van Artsdalen wrote:

Now the same thing is happening to high-megapixels: a feature that used to be expensive will now be a cheaper mid-range feature. Those people who want more pixels will not be disappointed at all; instead they'll save money.

Canon can't cripple the 5Dm3 to protect the 1Ds series because if they did the Nikon D800 would clobber both.

Sorry, don't understand this logic at all!!!

The new 1D X is an upgraded 1D mk4 but it is NOT an upgrade to the 1Ds mk3. Where so I save money? This will cost me a lot if I have to replace not only a body but a lot of lenses because I want higher resolution than my current 1DS mk3!!

A 1 series body is much more than just a sensor so it can't always be replaced with a 5Dxx! Canon's flagship body deserves to have the highest IQ, resolution, AF and build quality of their line, at the moment with the 1D X it does NOT!!

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kb2zuz
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Re: 5DMkII
In reply to Jay Adeff, Oct 19, 2011

I'm not a wedding photographer (done a couple as favors, but nothing professionally) but I would think that except for the price the 1D X would be a preferred option for wedding photographers. Assuming this new AF system is better in low light and the images at 3200-6400 are a couple stops better than the 5D Mk II, I would feel that would be more preferable than having 30MP. Unless you are selling a lot of 30x40 prints or doing insane cropping, I don't see the point. Landscapers, product, fine-art repro, those are the ones who want 30+MP

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mailman88
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Re: More Info on the 1D X...
In reply to Howard, Oct 19, 2011

.....The sensor also has a signal to noise ratio that is superior to anything Canon has put out before and has much lower noise than earlier sensors.

Gapless microlens – 6.95 micron (was 5.7 mk4) – larger size helps sensitivity and dynamic range and less noise from the sensor itself. Comparison of the images at 51k show about the same as 12k on the 1dm4.

ISO range....Standard ISO range is 100 – 51,200 – this range is 2 full stops higher than Canon EOS-1D MKIV (about 5 stops higher than the 1Ds)
Expanded ISO is 50, 102,400 and 204,800.

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dswcamera
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I am sure glad I have a 1Ds Mark II
In reply to Howard, Oct 19, 2011

More importantly, the image quality it gives me.
For landscape work it does a bit more than just get the job done.

Spending close to $7k might be worth it for a 1DX IF I did weddings.

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B E
B E
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Reliability
In reply to Rudix, Oct 19, 2011

Rudix wrote:

... and when I travel halfway around the world for a shoot I want the utmost reliability.

A 1DsIII might be more reliable than a 5DII. But if you have two 5DIIs, the chances of them both failing during the same shoot would be significantly less than the chances of a single 1DsIII failing. Two 5DIIs are also cheaper than one 1DsIII.

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maniax
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5d medium format
In reply to B E, Oct 19, 2011

They should make a 5d with a medium format sensor in it. But then they need to make a whole new set of lenses since most of them are optimized for 35mm.

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Anastigmat
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Re: I don't understand how the iD X replaces 1Ds Mark III
In reply to Howard, Oct 19, 2011

Howard wrote:

The more I read the specs, the more I think it is just the latest in the 1D line (thus spelling the end of APS-H in EOS DSLRs). But how can this replace the 1Ds III which has 21.1 Megapixel?

It is true that the 1.3x crop is probably history, unless Canon wants to bring it back and puts it in a model more expensive than the 7D but less expensive than the 5D, but the 1DX will not replace the 1DS. If nothing else, the Nikon D3x is a threat to the 1DX for landscape photographers who don't give a hoot about frames per second. 5fps is plenty for them even if the lighting changes rapidly.

I think FF will probably max out at 40MP or so, I can hardly believe at this point in time you would take a step back when you upgrade a line.

I don't believe it either. Sony is working hard on the A900 replacement and it will almost certainly exceed 30mp. I think Canon just wants to make sure that it launches the 1DX without any bugs or distractions, and then it will release the 1DSIII successor. Waiting also allows it to figure out what Sony's new sensor will be. If Canon releases, say, a 30mp 1DSIV, but Sony then follows with a 36mp sensor, the 1DSIV would then be behind in pixel count. Canon probably have several sensors in the lab, and will pick the appropriate answer to what Sony (and therefore Nikon) will do next.

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Chris Giles
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Re: 5DMkII
In reply to Jay Adeff, Oct 19, 2011

Jay Adeff wrote:

The 5D-MkII was cannibalizing sales from the 1Ds-MkIII. Same image quality at a much lower price. (> )

I never saw the 5DII as having equal IQ, the 1Ds3 was superior. Just didn't have the high iso capabilities or video. I have a 5D2 as a backup for my assistant. Otherwise it's 2 x 1Ds3's for everything.

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RedFox88
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it doesn't, really
In reply to Howard, Oct 19, 2011

Howard wrote:

The more I read the specs, the more I think it is just the latest in the 1D line (thus spelling the end of APS-H in EOS DSLRs). But how can this replace the 1Ds III which has 21.1 Megapixel?

It doesn't, really. So they've discontinued the 1Ds line which means they will just create a new camera model line. We will have to wait and see what their plan is.

I think FF will probably max out at 40MP or so, I can hardly believe at this point in time you would take a step back when you upgrade a line.

40? Hardly. Last year Canon made a prototype aps-h of 120 MP, they made a press release for it and it was carried by DPR as news. I'm sure people thought aps-c would "max out" at 12, but now we're at 18 and 24 MP already.

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Howard
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And?
In reply to mailman88, Oct 19, 2011

Your point is?
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Howard
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Not probable
In reply to maniax, Oct 19, 2011

To introduce an entire new line of lenses just to have a successor to the 5D II? This is farrrrr-stretched, not probable at all, maybe in another alternative universe.

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