Slave flash with 430ex II

Started Oct 18, 2011 | Discussions
john_bmth101
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Slave flash with 430ex II
Oct 18, 2011

I currently shoot insect macro using the on camera flash of my Canon 400d with various homemade snoots and diffusers to get the light around the lens. I am thinking of buying a 430ex II (as I can't afford an mt24ex) and using it on some sort of bracket.

If I do use this setup is there another cheap flash I could get and trigger some way to light the background behind the subject? I/e 430ex II on the camera and a second flash behind to light up the bush or flowers in the background.

Chris R-UK
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Re: Slave flash with 430ex II
In reply to john_bmth101, Oct 18, 2011

Try the Canon 1100D-300D forum, but I think that answer is not easily or cheaply.
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Port Royal Dad
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You’ll need a master flash/commander.
In reply to john_bmth101, Oct 18, 2011

When used in a multi-light setup, utilizing   Canon’s   wireless   functionality , the 430EX-II is a slave flash only. A flash that’s mounted in the camera’s hot-shoe will become the main flash, and the issue will be that the 430EX-II cannot trigger other speedlight flashes.

So with your 400D, you’ll need to have a master flash/commander mounted in the camera’s hot-shoe.

However you do have a variety of alternatives/paths-

  • Use a Master flash in the camera’s hot-shoe (eg 550ex, 580ex). This will allow you a multi/two-light setup.

  • Use the commander, ST-E2, in the camera’s hot-shoe to trigger the 430EX. This still is a single flash setup.

  • Use an extra long Ettl cord to get the flash out of the camera’s hot-shoe. This still is a single flash setup.

  • Shoot with the 430EX on-camera mounted via a Ettl cord, but in manual mode (not Ettl), and use an inexpensive flash off camera (like the discontinued 420EX) mounted with an optical triggering device.

For me, the biggest improvement came when I (literally) got the flash out of the camera’s hot-shoe, and off-camera onto   a   light   stand .

And one of the easiest ways to do this was with an Extra Long Ettl Cord , like this one made from Flash Zebra-
Extra Long Ettl Cord for Canon :
http://www.flashzebra.com/products/0125/index.shtml

If you are dead set on establishing an inexpensive two light setup, I would look at getting an off camera shoe-cord, with the 430EX mounted on the end (for the foreground), and then placing an inexpensive 420EX equipped with an optical slave (for the background). Because the 430EX-II has full manual control, you can shoot with the flash in manual mode (will not emit the Ettl pre-flash), and use an optical slave mounted to another inexpensive speedlight.

But, here’s an example using only a single off-camera speedlight. ISO 100, 1/100, f/5.6, 400mm (lens used was the Canon 100-400L), single speedlight placed to illuminate the butterfly. The setup was at the edge of a wood-line, and the ambient lighting was already very low. I was able to place the light close enough so that the exposure for the ambient lighting was practically eliminated.

I’d recommend that you start out with a single speedlight, but get it out of the camera’s hot-shoe via an extra long Ettl cord. You can do a lot with a single off camera light. Use you camera’s meter to expose for the ambient light, and use the off camera flash to exposure the foreground subject.

Regards, Mike

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john_bmth101
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Re: You’ll need a master flash/commander.
In reply to Port Royal Dad, Oct 18, 2011

Port Royal Dad wrote:

  • Shoot with the 430EX on-camera mounted via a Ettl cord, but in manual mode (not Ettl), and use an inexpensive flash off camera (like the discontinued 420EX) mounted with an optical triggering device.

That sounds like what I'm after . Many thanks.

I think this could be perfect. What about the following setup? :

430ex II on ETTL cord in ETTL mode
cheap second flash on optical trigger set manually

The 430ex II will do a pre-flash, set the amount of light and then flash for correct foreground exposure leaving the background black.

As the background is black with one flash using the second cheap flash behind to light the background should not effect and overexpose the ETTL foreground.

edit:

I think I see the flaw in my plan. The ETTL pre flash will set off the optical trigger. Hopefully there are optical triggers that ignore pre flash.

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Port Royal Dad
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Yep...that's what will happen.
In reply to john_bmth101, Oct 18, 2011

bummer, I know!!!!

But you guessed it...the pre-flash from the Ettl will fire the optical trigger that's attached to your slave flash. Nevertheless, there might be adjustments that can be made to the sensitivity of the optical trigger? I'm not sure, but it seems like a fair question. I don’t personally use the optical triggers. This might be a good question to post in the Studio Lighting Forum.

Another consideration....some of the newer camera bodies have speedlight controls built into them. Might be an opportunity to upgrade your camera body?

Also, there are several inexpensive radio triggers available too. For instance, there is the Radio Popper JrX system.
http://radiopopper.com/the-jrx-system

I realize that you want to minimize your spending. Just another option as you think things through.

Regards, Mike

john_bmth101 wrote:

Port Royal Dad wrote:

  • Shoot with the 430EX on-camera mounted via a Ettl cord, but in manual mode (not Ettl), and use an inexpensive flash off camera (like the discontinued 420EX) mounted with an optical triggering device.

That sounds like what I'm after . Many thanks.

I think this could be perfect. What about the following setup? :

430ex II on ETTL cord in ETTL mode
cheap second flash on optical trigger set manually

The 430ex II will do a pre-flash, set the amount of light and then flash for correct foreground exposure leaving the background black.

As the background is black with one flash using the second cheap flash behind to light the background should not effect and overexpose the ETTL foreground.

edit:

I think I see the flaw in my plan. The ETTL pre flash will set off the optical trigger. Hopefully there are optical triggers that ignore pre flash.

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beagle1
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Re: Yep...that's what will happen.
In reply to Port Royal Dad, Oct 18, 2011

Port Royal Dad wrote:

bummer, I know!!!!

But you guessed it...the pre-flash from the Ettl will fire the optical trigger that's attached to your slave flash. Nevertheless, there might be adjustments that can be made to the sensitivity of the optical trigger? I'm not sure, but it seems like a fair question. I don’t personally use the optical triggers. This might be a good question to post in the Studio Lighting Forum.

the yongnuo flashes with optical triggers ignore the pre-flash (in S2 mode)
for example the YN-460 manual flash - $35

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Port Royal Dad
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Outstanding! OP, There's another great solution for you.
In reply to beagle1, Oct 19, 2011

I just knew somebody a lot smarter than me would chime in!

That's a pretty darn inexpensive manual flash.

Best Regards, Mike

beagle1 wrote:

Port Royal Dad wrote:

bummer, I know!!!!

But you guessed it...the pre-flash from the Ettl will fire the optical trigger that's attached to your slave flash. Nevertheless, there might be adjustments that can be made to the sensitivity of the optical trigger? I'm not sure, but it seems like a fair question. I don’t personally use the optical triggers. This might be a good question to post in the Studio Lighting Forum.

the yongnuo flashes with optical triggers ignore the pre-flash (in S2 mode)
for example the YN-460 manual flash - $35

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john_bmth101
Regular MemberPosts: 111
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Re: Yep...that's what will happen.
In reply to beagle1, Oct 19, 2011

beagle1 wrote:

Port Royal Dad wrote:

bummer, I know!!!!

But you guessed it...the pre-flash from the Ettl will fire the optical trigger that's attached to your slave flash. Nevertheless, there might be adjustments that can be made to the sensitivity of the optical trigger? I'm not sure, but it seems like a fair question. I don’t personally use the optical triggers. This might be a good question to post in the Studio Lighting Forum.

the yongnuo flashes with optical triggers ignore the pre-flash (in S2 mode)
for example the YN-460 manual flash - $35

Wow thats awesome. Many thanks. I have just googled everything I can find on Yongnuo and "very good for the price" seems to be the phrase that appears most .

Do you have the Yongnuo wireless triggers as well? I'm wondering if I put the 430ex II ontop of a wireless trigger on the camera whether it still has ETTL passed to it through the hot shoe. If it does then I could get a set of these RF603 triggers and a Yongnuo flash and I could shoot macro foreground with the 430ex II and have the Yongnuo flash out of sight on the floor triggered by the radio trigger.

Does anyone know if the Yongnuo wireless flash triggers allow the ETTL signal to pass through them, not wirelessly just for the one on the camera?

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beagle1
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Re: Yep...that's what will happen.
In reply to john_bmth101, Oct 19, 2011

john_bmth101 wrote:

beagle1 wrote:

Port Royal Dad wrote:

bummer, I know!!!!

But you guessed it...the pre-flash from the Ettl will fire the optical trigger that's attached to your slave flash. Nevertheless, there might be adjustments that can be made to the sensitivity of the optical trigger? I'm not sure, but it seems like a fair question. I don’t personally use the optical triggers. This might be a good question to post in the Studio Lighting Forum.

the yongnuo flashes with optical triggers ignore the pre-flash (in S2 mode)
for example the YN-460 manual flash - $35

Wow thats awesome. Many thanks. I have just googled everything I can find on Yongnuo and "very good for the price" seems to be the phrase that appears most .

Do you have the Yongnuo wireless triggers as well? I'm wondering if I put the 430ex II ontop of a wireless trigger on the camera whether it still has ETTL passed to it through the hot shoe. If it does then I could get a set of these RF603 triggers and a Yongnuo flash and I could shoot macro foreground with the 430ex II and have the Yongnuo flash out of sight on the floor triggered by the radio trigger.

Does anyone know if the Yongnuo wireless flash triggers allow the ETTL signal to pass through them, not wirelessly just for the one on the camera?

the cheap yongnuo wireless triggers (RF-602, RF-603) do not pass thru ETTL signals, they just send a "fire" signal to the receiver. The more expensive ones do, e.g. Yongnuo ST-E2

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