First impression pf A77 + some disappointment < Sony fix it!

Started Sep 25, 2011 | Discussions
wilf
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First impression pf A77 + some disappointment < Sony fix it!
Sep 25, 2011

I've been using Sony DSLR since A100, then A350> A550 and now A77. After playing with my A77 for 2 days. Here are some of my 1st impression! I know most of you know all the good stuff about A77(and I do too)...so I think I better voice out some points for improvments, and I hope Sony can improve some of them in their next firmware update!

1. I tired out the video function (cos' it's new to me), Unfortunately, if you wanna use Aperture, Shutter Priority or Manual exposure for video, you need to use Manual Focus! How disappointed! One of the reason I bought the kit is I wanna use Aperture priority to shoot shallow DoF videos with AF! Even my Olympus EPL2 can do that!

2. Image IQ is great in low ISO...and high ISO...maybe just as good as my A550...but not any better. Another disappointment.

3.Start up time (the time I switch it on until I can take a photo) is some what slower than my A550. About 0.5 sec I guess.

4. Live Recording information display in both of the LCD and EVF- here are the 4 options: Display info with AF points, No disp info with AF points, disgal level gauge with AF points, Histogram only.
Why there isn't an option for All info display + Level gauge+ histogram?!

ok..I'm sort of busy, will tell you guys more soon.

 wilf's gear list:wilf's gear list
Casio Exilim EX-ZR300 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1 Sony SLT-A77 Sony Alpha DSLR-A550 Sony SLT-A99
_Fotogrfr_
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Re: First impression pf A77 + some disappointment < Sony fix it!
In reply to wilf, Sep 25, 2011

Thank you for this... and your other thread too. I have an a550 and am very interested in the comparisons and opinions from folks that own both the a550 and the a77 (or a65).

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ET2
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Re: First impression pf A77 + some disappointment < Sony fix it!
In reply to wilf, Sep 25, 2011

wilf wrote:

One of the reason I bought the kit is I wanna use Aperture priority to shoot shallow DoF videos with AF! Even my Olympus EPL2 can do that!

Of course EPL2 (as well Nex) can do AF in video mode with full manual control.

Their native lenses were made to work with CDAF system from the scratch.

DSLR lenses don't work with CDAF. You get video AF similar to Nikon D7000, which is much worse than manual focus, as it hunts crazy.

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aman74
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Re: First impression pf A77 + some disappointment < Sony fix it!
In reply to ET2, Sep 25, 2011

ET2 wrote:

wilf wrote:

One of the reason I bought the kit is I wanna use Aperture priority to shoot shallow DoF videos with AF! Even my Olympus EPL2 can do that!

Of course EPL2 (as well Nex) can do AF in video mode with full manual control.

Their native lenses were made to work with CDAF system from the scratch.

DSLR lenses don't work with CDAF. You get video AF similar to Nikon D7000, which is much worse than manual focus, as it hunts crazy.

I thought one of the SLT advantages was to allow PDAF during video.

Also, why would using different metering modes have to disable AF whether it be PDAF or CDAF?

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ET2
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Re: First impression pf A77 + some disappointment < Sony fix it!
In reply to aman74, Sep 25, 2011

aman74 wrote:

ET2 wrote:

wilf wrote:

One of the reason I bought the kit is I wanna use Aperture priority to shoot shallow DoF videos with AF! Even my Olympus EPL2 can do that!

Of course EPL2 (as well Nex) can do AF in video mode with full manual control.

Their native lenses were made to work with CDAF system from the scratch.

DSLR lenses don't work with CDAF. You get video AF similar to Nikon D7000, which is much worse than manual focus, as it hunts crazy.

I thought one of the SLT advantages was to allow PDAF during video.

Yes it allows PDAF during video, but you can't change aperture during PDAF AF. That was the point to my response, wasn't it?

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Richard M
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Re: First impression pf A77 + some disappointment < Sony fix it!
In reply to wilf, Sep 25, 2011

wilf wrote:

3.Start up time (the time I switch it on until I can take a photo) is some what slower than my A550. About 0.5 sec I guess.

ok..I'm sort of busy, will tell you guys more soon.

wow that must be unbearable so much of your life wasted

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Regards
Richard

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wilf
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QC problem
In reply to Richard M, Sep 25, 2011

Richard M wrote:

wilf wrote:

3.Start up time (the time I switch it on until I can take a photo) is some what slower than my A550. About 0.5 sec I guess.

ok..I'm sort of busy, will tell you guys more soon.

wow that must be unbearable so much of your life wasted

-- hide signature --

Regards
Richard

Well. 0.5 sec is good enough to miss a great shot...

And...Now QC problem! I think moving to Thailand for the body and China for the lens has degraded Sony's QC... because...there are already few cases just like mine in Hong Kong...I'm so unfortunet

My A77 froze a few times already..and now I couldn't press any button, even I changed the battery/lens/SD card etc...Will go to Sony Style tmr and get a new one...sigh...

 wilf's gear list:wilf's gear list
Casio Exilim EX-ZR300 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1 Sony SLT-A77 Sony Alpha DSLR-A550 Sony SLT-A99
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aman74
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Re: First impression pf A77 + some disappointment < Sony fix it!
In reply to ET2, Sep 25, 2011

ET2 wrote:

aman74 wrote:

ET2 wrote:

wilf wrote:

One of the reason I bought the kit is I wanna use Aperture priority to shoot shallow DoF videos with AF! Even my Olympus EPL2 can do that!

Of course EPL2 (as well Nex) can do AF in video mode with full manual control.

Their native lenses were made to work with CDAF system from the scratch.

DSLR lenses don't work with CDAF. You get video AF similar to Nikon D7000, which is much worse than manual focus, as it hunts crazy.

I thought one of the SLT advantages was to allow PDAF during video.

Yes it allows PDAF during video, but you can't change aperture during PDAF AF. That was the point to my response, wasn't it?

I'm trying to figure out your point...that's why I asked. It's unclear.

You said:

"Of course EPL2 (as well Nex) can do AF in video mode with full manual control.
Their native lenses were made to work with CDAF system from the scratch."

The A77's lenses were made to work with PDAF from scratch, so why does it have this limitation?

You also didn't answer why you can't change aperture and still get AF. I asked and all you did reply was that you can't change aperture during PDAF. That's not answering the question.

You're bringing CDAF into the equation for some reason. Maybe there's a very good reason that you lose AF when going to manual control, but you haven't provided one that's for sure.

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Trollmann
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Re: First impression pf A77 + some disappointment < Sony fix it!
In reply to wilf, Sep 25, 2011

Tiring out the video function: do the video function still work, or do you now have a still image camera with a non working video? In that case I can see that you are dissappointed, if not, then I do not quite get the point...

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gfrensen
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Re: First impression pf A77 + some disappointment < Sony fix it!
In reply to ET2, Sep 25, 2011

ET2 wrote:

wilf wrote:

One of the reason I bought the kit is I wanna use Aperture priority to shoot shallow DoF videos with AF! Even my Olympus EPL2 can do that!

Of course EPL2 (as well Nex) can do AF in video mode with full manual control.

Well actualy, my Nex can't do any manual exposure during video. The video mode is kind of fixed. Yes You can set the apperture when you start to take a video but that is all...

Their native lenses were made to work with CDAF system from the scratch.

That is why the AF of these cameras is good (not as fast as a DSLR with PDAF but it is good enough for many types of photography/video.

DSLR lenses don't work with CDAF. You get video AF similar to Nikon D7000, which is much worse than manual focus, as it hunts crazy.

That only goes for DSLR lenses that are used with CDAF when you use them with PDAF, even in video, they work as fast as the camera can focus...

The problem is that an PDAF sensor needs a minimal apperture to work good. I believe it is around F6 that is needed for food AF (Minolta did a trick to let the F8 mirrior lens auto focus). So when you want some kind of manual control over apperture in video you have to limmit the apperture to max F6. Sony opted for switching of AF in ASM mode. Video is created with a large apperture, so you get shallow DOF by default.

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Elgsdyr
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Re: QC problem
In reply to wilf, Sep 25, 2011

wilf wrote:

Richard M wrote:

wilf wrote:

3.Start up time (the time I switch it on until I can take a photo) is some what slower than my A550. About 0.5 sec I guess.

wow that must be unbearable so much of your life wasted

Well. 0.5 sec is good enough to miss a great shot...

I don't know your usage habits, but it seems to me that if you turn on the camera as you grab it (which should be easy with the power switch placed at the index finger), the camera should be ready as it reaches your eye. That is, unless you use the rear LCD for composing.

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Torsten Balle Koefoed

http://www.elgsdyr.dk

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ET2
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Re: First impression pf A77 + some disappointment < Sony fix it!
In reply to aman74, Sep 25, 2011

aman74 wrote:

ET2 wrote:

aman74 wrote:

ET2 wrote:

wilf wrote:

One of the reason I bought the kit is I wanna use Aperture priority to shoot shallow DoF videos with AF! Even my Olympus EPL2 can do that!

Of course EPL2 (as well Nex) can do AF in video mode with full manual control.

Their native lenses were made to work with CDAF system from the scratch.

DSLR lenses don't work with CDAF. You get video AF similar to Nikon D7000, which is much worse than manual focus, as it hunts crazy.

I thought one of the SLT advantages was to allow PDAF during video.

Yes it allows PDAF during video, but you can't change aperture during PDAF AF. That was the point to my response, wasn't it?

I'm trying to figure out your point...that's why I asked. It's unclear.

You said:

"Of course EPL2 (as well Nex) can do AF in video mode with full manual control.
Their native lenses were made to work with CDAF system from the scratch."

The A77's lenses were made to work with PDAF from scratch, so why does it have this limitation?

PDAF needs aperture to be wide open to work. That's how it works. On SLT, it has to be either wide open, or F3.5 (for faster lenses).

CDAF does not have that limitation.

You're bringing CDAF into the equation for some reason. Maybe there's a very good reason that you lose AF when going to manual control, but you haven't provided one that's for sure.

I have, but it just went over your head.

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ET2
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Re: First impression pf A77 + some disappointment < Sony fix it!
In reply to gfrensen, Sep 25, 2011

gfrensen wrote:

ET2 wrote:

wilf wrote:

One of the reason I bought the kit is I wanna use Aperture priority to shoot shallow DoF videos with AF! Even my Olympus EPL2 can do that!

Of course EPL2 (as well Nex) can do AF in video mode with full manual control.

Well actualy, my Nex can't do any manual exposure during video. The video mode is kind of fixed. Yes You can set the apperture when you start to take a video but that is all...

Nex-5n has full manual control in video (and AF too).

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stevecimo
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Re: First impression pf A77 + some disappointment < Sony fix it!
In reply to ET2, Sep 25, 2011

This is just a guess, but going by Sonys past, they try to disable modes that may cause problem..... I can image if they allowed AF in A/S/M mode users would be doing things like setting a aperture of F6 or higher then start complaining when AF stops working

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NickRno77
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Any positives
In reply to wilf, Sep 25, 2011

Is there anything you like about this camera?

BTW I think shooting vid in automode it shoots wide open anyway = shallow depth of field (DOF)

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ET2
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Re: First impression pf A77 + some disappointment < Sony fix it!
In reply to stevecimo, Sep 25, 2011

stevecimo wrote:

This is just a guess, but going by Sonys past, they try to disable modes that may cause problem.....

Wrong.

We have been over this a zillion times past year too when A55 was released.

PFAD works with aperture wide open (or F3.5 for faster lenses). That's why you can't change aperture and have AF-C in video mode simultaneously.

You have to switch to manual focus if you want to shoot with a user chosen aperture.

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aman74
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Re: First impression pf A77 + some disappointment < Sony fix it!
In reply to ET2, Sep 25, 2011

ET2 wrote:

I have, but it just went over your head.

I guess that's the sort of snarky comment I should come to expect from you. You actually didn't. You only now mentioned anything about aperture. You brought CDAF into the equation without explanation.

Go back and read. It's all here in black and white for everyone to see.

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ET2
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Re: First impression pf A77 + some disappointment < Sony fix it!
In reply to aman74, Sep 25, 2011

aman74 wrote:

I guess that's the sort of snarky comment I should come to expect from you. You actually didn't. You only now mentioned anything about aperture. You brought CDAF into the equation without explanation.

Go back and read. I was answering the OP who said his Olympus EPL2 can AF and allow full manual control in video, but the more expensive A77 can't. I answered that EPL2 is a mirorless camera where lenses are optimized to work with CDAF. CDAF doesn't require wide open aperture for AF, unlike PDAF. On DSLR CDAF would be crappy (just like D7000 video AF).

What's exactly your problem, again?

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aman74
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Re: First impression pf A77 + some disappointment < Sony fix it!
In reply to ET2, Sep 25, 2011

ET2 wrote:

aman74 wrote:

I guess that's the sort of snarky comment I should come to expect from you. You actually didn't. You only now mentioned anything about aperture. You brought CDAF into the equation without explanation.

Go back and read. I was answering the OP who said his Olympus EPL2 can AF and allow full manual control in video, but the more expensive A77 can't. I answered that EPL2 is a mirorless camera where lenses are optimized to work with CDAF. CDAF doesn't require wide open aperture for AF, unlike PDAF. On DSLR CDAF would be crappy (just like D7000 video AF).

What's exactly your problem, again?

Problem is you said nothing of aperture. It's not my fault you can't explain yourself. I did not know the aperture limitations. I was asking a genuine question, which you didn't answer. Can you see how your answer made zero sense without the aperture limitation context?

You also keep saying CDAF DSLR video is crappy. That's why I asked why this was an issue when the whole idea of the SLT is to have PDAF during video. It's still not answered why AF has to disappear to allow manual metering. As some suggested maybe this is because consumers wouldn't understand the aperture limits. However, it doesn't seem to be the case that manual metering is impossible to have along with AF, which is how you responded.

You're the one who needs to go back and read sir.

Don't bother replying to me as you're going on my ignore list.

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Sensor This
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Re: First impression pf A77 + some disappointment <= Sony a550
In reply to aman74, Sep 25, 2011

now there's an endorsement Sony can live without!
If the user report and opinion is close to accurate here is what you have:

Image quality report excerpt taken from DPR review of the December 09 a550 release,

"But shine it can: the raw files, when processed sympathetically, can easily compete with pretty much any other camera in this price range, and (in stark contrast to the smeary JPEGs) the Alpha 550's raw output is competitive - and usable - right up to ISO 3200 (above that noise is an issue for all cameras in this class). "

Smeary JPEGs...nothing new here! Sympathetic processing of RAW files! Ha! After ISO 800, as they say, forgetaboutit!

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