Why would I get V1/J1 over a good P&S ?

Started Sep 23, 2011 | Discussions
harold1968
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Why would I get V1/J1 over a good P&S ?
Sep 23, 2011

I am looking for reasons rather then just saying

1. It seems that a good P&S can have a longer range built in with no hassle of lens changing or dust getting in.
2. Is at least half the price
3. This thing has no DOF control to speak of so not much diff from P&S

If I want fun lens changes in a small package I can get Pentax Q. if I want some DOF and ISO I should get Nex or even cheap 4/3s

I see lots of Nikon fanboys/girls saying this is the best thing since sliced bread, but all because it does squeeze between two markets doesn't mean that the buyer slice actually exists at the price ?

I just don't get why Nikon feel that the man/women in the street will buy this over Panny LX5, Canon S95, Nikon P300 or Olympus AZ-1 ?

PS: The prices for these things in the UK looks insanve, even given retailer discounting after launch ....

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myzel
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Re: Why would I get V1/J1 over a good P&S ?
In reply to harold1968, Sep 23, 2011

harold1968 wrote:

I just don't get why Nikon feel that the man/women in the street will buy this over Panny LX5, Canon S95, Nikon P300 or Olympus AZ-1 ?

AF speed and image quality.

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Greg Gebhardt
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Focus speed biggest advantage
In reply to harold1968, Sep 23, 2011

and that IS a BIG advantage as most P&S are horrible for any type of action photography!

For those point and shooters that want to take images of their kids and sports the V1 will be the camera to have.

If Nikon can get any decent performance out of this small snesor, it will be a good seller. I see a problem with controlling DOF which is the numbner one problem with tiny sensors, then noise at higher ISO, this will be less of a problem than the DOF.
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harold1968
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Re: Why would I get V1/J1 over a good P&S ?
In reply to myzel, Sep 23, 2011

good point if dramatically better

but the panny is pretty good, maybe just a diff for sports ?

myzel wrote:

AF speed and image quality.

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IZO100
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There is no reason (nt)
In reply to harold1968, Sep 23, 2011

harold1968 wrote:

I am looking for reasons rather then just saying

1. It seems that a good P&S can have a longer range built in with no hassle of lens changing or dust getting in.
2. Is at least half the price
3. This thing has no DOF control to speak of so not much diff from P&S

If I want fun lens changes in a small package I can get Pentax Q. if I want some DOF and ISO I should get Nex or even cheap 4/3s

I see lots of Nikon fanboys/girls saying this is the best thing since sliced bread, but all because it does squeeze between two markets doesn't mean that the buyer slice actually exists at the price ?

I just don't get why Nikon feel that the man/women in the street will buy this over Panny LX5, Canon S95, Nikon P300 or Olympus AZ-1 ?

PS: The prices for these things in the UK looks insanve, even given retailer discounting after launch ....

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sandy b
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There were no "good" point and shoots
In reply to Greg Gebhardt, Sep 23, 2011

Just acceptable ones. Until now.

Seriously, ps were always a compromise between quality and size. The Nikon closes that gap quite a bit. You can have size and quality speed and af now. Thats huge.

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bryanbrun
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Re: Why would I get V1/J1 over a good P&S ?
In reply to harold1968, Sep 23, 2011

harold1968 wrote:

I am looking for reasons rather then just saying

You wouldn't get the V1/J1 if you are interested in low ISO image quality. The 7100 and most P&S have better image quality at low ISO:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/NIKONJ1/NIKONJ1A.HTM

http://www.focus-numerique.com/test-1302/compact-nikon-v1-bruit-electronique-12.html

Nikon sacrificed low ISO image quality in their new sensor for fast FPS.

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mike_2008
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Re: There were no "good" point and shoots
In reply to sandy b, Sep 23, 2011

sandy b wrote:

Just acceptable ones. Until now.

Seriously, ps were always a compromise between quality and size. The Nikon closes that gap quite a bit. You can have size and quality speed and af now. Thats huge.

Sorry, in terms of size and weight the v1 with a lens on it is hardly 'compact', and several times as heavy and large as say the S95.

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mike_2008
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Re: Why would I get V1/J1 over a good P&S ?
In reply to bryanbrun, Sep 23, 2011

bryanbrun wrote:

harold1968 wrote:

I am looking for reasons rather then just saying

You wouldn't get the V1/J1 if you are interested in low ISO image quality. The 7100 and most P&S have better image quality at low ISO:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/NIKONJ1/NIKONJ1A.HTM

http://www.focus-numerique.com/test-1302/compact-nikon-v1-bruit-electronique-12.html

Nikon sacrificed low ISO image quality in their new sensor for fast FPS.

Nikon has spent years building up a reputation for quality and then seem at risk of spending that capital on this marketing-driven camera system; why make super large lenses to keep a flat distortion when the low iso quality is not stellar in the first place? It seems the lenses have been designed with no compromises at all, while the sensor has been compromised for speed; this creates an imbalanced system, with unnecessarily large, heavy lenses, totally unattractive to p&s users, the intended market.

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The fact that a-mount lenses are still worth any money at all is thanks to the success of SLT.

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Greynerd
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Re: Why would I get V1/J1 over a good P&S ?
In reply to harold1968, Sep 23, 2011

harold1968 wrote:

I see lots of Nikon fanboys/girls saying this is the best thing since sliced bread, but all because it does squeeze between two markets doesn't mean that the buyer slice actually exists at the price ?

I like the idea of 2.7x and I have never owned a Nikon. Describing anyone who likes the concept as a Nikon fanboy is a bit of a weak argument but all too prevalent on these fora.

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myzel
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Re: Why would I get V1/J1 over a good P&S ?
In reply to harold1968, Sep 23, 2011

harold1968 wrote:

… but the panny is pretty good, maybe just a diff for sports ?

We will see how good the AF and how short the shutter lag is.

Until now every compact camera I used was to slow for candid people photos. It drives me crazy if I have to wait for the camera or if I have to pre-focus and then wait for the next moment.

Fast AF and short shutter lag isn't just something for action or sports photography. In my opinion it's important for almost any type of photography that isn't completely static.

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Sulis2
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Re: Why would I get V1/J1 over a good P&S ?
In reply to myzel, Sep 23, 2011

My Panny LX3 has never been that laggy - but as it's wide-to-short-telephoto I'm never using it for sports anyway, just portraits and street photography. Lovely little camera.

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harry
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Re: It's Not Either Or
In reply to harold1968, Sep 23, 2011

Nikon 1 clearly is aiming at p&s users to move up, but not necessarily to DSLR sizes and complexity.

I would actually choose a fast p&s now such as the the Nikon P300 (at $249), that gets the job done (or LX5, S100, if one could afford a bit more $$), then wait a year or two before I eventually plunge in the 1 market (more lens and model choices then, at hopefully cheaper prices).
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oeoek
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Re: Why would I get V1/J1 over a good P&S ?
In reply to harold1968, Sep 23, 2011

Most people are comparing the Nikon one camera's to M43 and other mirrorless camera's. I think those systems are designed as replacement for DSLR's. And clearly, the J/V1 are no replacement for that.

I can only speak for myself, but I have been looking at the P7100 and the G12 as a possible daily companion. I now use an S95, and while I love to carry it with me, I hate using it because of its controls and size. As for IQ, The small sensor preforms miracles as far as I am concerned; it is almost good enough...

I think the V1 might very well be a better choice over de P7100 or G12. A slightly larger sensor with slightly better high Iso, a fast AF system and enough camera to get a grip looks good. Being able to choose between a small pancake or a bigger zoom, with an additional long zoom in the bag is nice as well.

Sadly, for now it lacks the controls I would prefer. And until the V1 gets available, we have to wait for conformation on IQ and speed. But I am keeping my eye on these.

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Camp Freddy
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Shutter speed biggest fail
In reply to Greg Gebhardt, Sep 23, 2011

with those slow zooms, shutter speed will negate much of the tracking AF.

Nice panned shots.

However, let us not throw out the bathwater with the baby, the AF may be world leading. Keep the bathwater!
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Camp Freddy
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Why would you get V1/J1 over a fuji X10
In reply to harold1968, Sep 23, 2011

Once you actually buy a lens fast enough for the poor ISO in the "1s", then you are over the price for the X1o, which really can take good pictures.

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HB 101
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Re: Why would I get V1/J1 over a good P&S ?
In reply to harold1968, Sep 23, 2011

For static pictures, no way.

Maybe for sports, but let's wait for some real world pictures.

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Cytokine
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Re: Why would you get V1/J1 over a fuji X10
In reply to Camp Freddy, Sep 23, 2011

Camp Freddy wrote:

Once you actually buy a lens fast enough for the poor ISO in the "1s", then you are over the price for the X1o, which really can take good pictures.

This is what I thought until I read this article:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1316730752.html

The image processing technology in the V1 is 5 times faster than a D3, with 24 Digital channels and two dedicated image processing pipelines v 12 analogue channels on the D3.

This technology is not only fast but may bring back the colour control that was only possible with expensive off sensor Analogue Digital conversion like D2x D200 and D3.

Since Nikon I seem to remember had the Patent for multi-channel sensors, the new sensors like the V1 could put Nikon ahead of Sony and others in terms of speed and IQ.
Nikon claim the quality of the Nikon 1 is on par with a DSLR.

The sensor also seems to be optimised for video, so if the above is confirmed in tests, this would be a huge achievement for Nikon, add a few very fast lenses and an enthusiast version and this format will be very very good.

John

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harold1968
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Re: Why would you get V1/J1 over a fuji X10
In reply to Cytokine, Sep 23, 2011

I am confident the sensor will be great
however, unless nikon can bring out a 0.2 lens the DOF will be fat

Cytokine wrote:

Camp Freddy wrote:

Once you actually buy a lens fast enough for the poor ISO in the "1s", then you are over the price for the X1o, which really can take good pictures.

This is what I thought until I read this article:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1316730752.html

The image processing technology in the V1 is 5 times faster than a D3, with 24 Digital channels and two dedicated image processing pipelines v 12 analogue channels on the D3.

This technology is not only fast but may bring back the colour control that was only possible with expensive off sensor Analogue Digital conversion like D2x D200 and D3.

Since Nikon I seem to remember had the Patent for multi-channel sensors, the new sensors like the V1 could put Nikon ahead of Sony and others in terms of speed and IQ.
Nikon claim the quality of the Nikon 1 is on par with a DSLR.

The sensor also seems to be optimised for video, so if the above is confirmed in tests, this would be a huge achievement for Nikon, add a few very fast lenses and an enthusiast version and this format will be very very good.

John

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dgreene196
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Re: There were no "good" point and shoots
In reply to mike_2008, Sep 23, 2011

I guess it depends on your definition of 'compact,' doesn't it?

Compared to a DSLR, the Nikon 1 cameras are quite small. Compared to the S95/S100, they are moderately larger (the V1 is sllightly more than twice as heaviy as the S95 when the kit zoom or pancake lens are added). Personally, I appreciate the Nikon didn't follow Sony's trend (which Olympus and Samsung have followed to some degree) of having the mount stick out from the body. While it makes the bodies appear small (and the trend has been to have the smallest body possible, though I'm not sure why), functionally, these cameras aren't any smaller, and I think some are taking a step back in functionality as subsequent generations are released (GF3, I'm looking at you). It will be interesting to actually see and hold these cameras in store. While I've always liked the idea of the S90/S95/S100, I've never found them particularly comfrotable for my hands.

Of course, when you get to feature sets, the V1 resoundlingly trumps the S100, unless you really have to have 1080p at 24 fps, a smaller camera, a built-in flash, or as many megapixels as possible. Of course, as a more expensive camera, it should. But I can't imagine too many people cross-shopping the Nikon 1 cameras and high-end compacts. Beyond prices being somewhat similar (I don't think Nikon was aggressive enough on price), they're aimed at different markets. The G12, P7100, LX-5, S100, etc all have lots of buttos and dials for a reason. They are targeted at people who like those buttons. The Nikon 1 series is targeted at people who have compact cameras that they've become frustrated with. They want more responsivness, quicker photos. They want to get a shot or a video of a moment more than they want to create an artistic image (or fiddle with buttons or specs).

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