Epic Win or Epic Fail - J1/V1

Started Sep 21, 2011 | Discussions
jerrycambuk
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Epic Win or Epic Fail - J1/V1
Sep 21, 2011

I'm starting this thread simply as I was getting annoyed reading some of the garbage written on here, and other forums, by gear heads moaning about the J1/V1 launch as if it is worse than the ending of time. So, I am asking the question many have already commented on in other posts, has Nikon scored an EPIC WIN, or an EPIC FAIL with the J1/V1 launch today?

My twopenneth:

As a D700 user with a bag of F mount lenses, and with a wife and small son as well, the LIFESTYLE choice (knocked by so many) of the V1 is for me, very interesting.

It will not replace my D700 (never never never) BUT........ My wife, who is not a photohead but loves taking photos, and loves the quality we get from the D700 and the F mounts, will probably love a V1, and the adaptor to use our 16/35 or 50 f1.4. We may well buy a V1 with (horrors!!) a kit lens, and I'm sure my non techno wife will love it, as will my son, for whom this type of camera will be simple to use and will give him great results which at the age of 2 1/2 he would never be able to get from Daddy's DSLR.

Furthermore, the claimed focussing speed and shooting time lag could make this supposedly worthless compact into the only camera apart from a fully blown DSLR which is actually fast enough for kid and sports photography, but in a small package. And that is a huge positive.

Finally, back to LIFESTYLE - the thought of HD video in a small cam like this makes me think that now is the time to say bye bye to the Canon Legria (no HD) the couple of old Powershots, and the Canon D10, to be replaced by one compact camera which looks to have excellent compatability with my 'big-boy' system.

So, EPIC WIN Nikon, well done.

the_rascal
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Re: Epic Win or Epic Fail - J1/V1
In reply to jerrycambuk, Sep 21, 2011

but, your 50/1,4 on D700 is not the same as on the 2,7x sensor... really not...

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Debankur Mukherjee
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Re: Epic Win or Epic Fail - J1/V1
In reply to jerrycambuk, Sep 21, 2011

One thing is for sure and that is - you have to carry weight to take quality photographs , there is no shortcut to success.

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myzel
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Re:nothing epic
In reply to jerrycambuk, Sep 21, 2011

I think the 1 System will attract enough customers to make it a success. And I think it the V1 is a good second camera body for dSLR users.

I'm not sure if I will buy a V1. I think the concept is very good and I want a small but versatile compact camera, but the most important lens for me is missing: the fast normal prime.

I hope that there is a fast way to change shutter speed, aperture and ISO without having to click through a maze of menu options.

So, my opinion is, that the 1 System is a good addition to the Nikon line up, but nothing really epic. Epic WIN would be if the 1 system had a image quality comparable to the D3s for 1/2 the announced price and with 10 lenses more

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myzel
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Re: Epic Win or Epic Fail - J1/V1
In reply to Debankur Mukherjee, Sep 21, 2011

Debankur Mukherjee wrote:

One thing is for sure and that is - you have to carry weight to take quality photographs , there is no shortcut to success.

You are using large format technical cameras?

Almost every camera system is a compromise between price, size and image quality. Image quality isn't always the most important thing, being there with a camera can be more important

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RadarK
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Re: Epic Win or Epic Fail - J1/V1
In reply to jerrycambuk, Sep 21, 2011

In order to have a "win", you must have beat someone. Who did Nikon beat? Certainly not 4/3 or Sony NEX. They didn't even beat Samsung.

This camera is an epic "fail" because it brings nothing new to the table as far as image quality, usability or pocketability is concerned, and they did that at a price point that is just crazy. The only people who will buy it are the Nikon fanboys and those who don't know how to comparison shop.

These will be as memorable as the typical Nikon Coolpix camera.
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Dave Lively
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Re: Epic Win or Epic Fail - J1/V1
In reply to jerrycambuk, Sep 21, 2011

I really had high hopes for the Nikon 1 system based on the smaller sensor making a significantly smaller system possible. But from what I have seen so far it is not noticeably smaller than m43 and with m43 I would get a larger sensor and not have to wait for the lenses I want to become available. I hope someone doing a preview has a picture of a Panasonic GF-3 with the X14-42 sitting next to the J1 with the 10-30. While the 10-30 looks smaller than the Olympus 14-42 the new Panasonic X 14-42 looks to be even slimmer.

I had my credit card out hoping to preorder one of the Nikons this morning. After looking at the announcement I put the card away and am going to rethink my options. The larger than anticipated size and lack of manual controls is disappointing. The electronic shutter and fast autofocus are nice though.

While I may not be buying one of these a lot of people that want to take better pictures without knowing anything about photography except how to press the shutter button will. There are a lot of people in that market and these cameras will probably work very well for them. These cameras are clearly aimed at that market. The press release and Nikon website make the lack of control sound like a feature instead of the defect I consider it to be.

So my prediction is epic win for Nikon but a fail for me.

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Vladimir Yanushkevich
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Both 16-35 and 50mm FX-lenses are useless on 1-system
In reply to the_rascal, Sep 21, 2011

Not enough resolution for tiny pixels and way too long FLs

the_rascal wrote:

but, your 50/1,4 on D700 is not the same as on the 2,7x sensor... really not...

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Taikonaut
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Re: Epic Win or Epic Fail - J1/V1
In reply to jerrycambuk, Sep 21, 2011

An epic fail mainly because there is plenty of competition around which offer much more. The main disappointment for me would be the small sensor and then the whole new range of lens you have to adopt to get the most out of it. It cant do RAW. There is nothing expetionally new that you cant get elsewhere video wise. I mean whats the point?

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Visualiza
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Re: Epic Win or Epic Fail - J1/V1
In reply to jerrycambuk, Sep 21, 2011

It actually seems a lot better than what I had initially concluded from the info around the rumor mill. I'll wait to see how it develops, but it looks very promising thus far. The lens roadmap already beats NEX handily.

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jerrycambuk
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Re: Epic Win or Epic Fail - J1/V1
In reply to the_rascal, Sep 21, 2011

the_rascal wrote:

but, your 50/1,4 on D700 is not the same as on the 2,7x sensor... really not...

Obviously..... I'm not daft enough to think otherwise. Ditto the other post about the 16/35 on the V1 as well, which is why I imagine if I do buy a V1 when the price crumbles (which it will) then I'd get it as a P&S with the Kit Lens and buy the adaptor to mess around with the F mounts mainly for my wife's use. The system gives options, and that to a Nikon shooter with a lot invested in the Nikon FX system is interesting as I am sure we would all appreciate. I mean, even my old EL3 remote control could get pressed back into use

The killer feature for me is the supposed instant AF and no lag. If this is proved in the reviews then Nikon might just have made a worthwhile compact P&S for those with kids such as myself, and then the 1 system suddenly becomes very interesting. I don't bother with a compact camera at the moment because they are all just too slow for candid photographs of my son.

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futurewah
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Re: Epic Win or Epic Fail - J1/V1
In reply to jerrycambuk, Sep 21, 2011

I have just seen the UK pricing... £829 for the V1 with kit zoom... that's a bit strong... and F-mount glass with an adapter seems pointless... putting an F-mount lens on this would negate any size advantage, so put it back on your DSLR I say

I say FAIL... but that's just me... I'd like to see Nikon working on their DX and FX range myself... this will probably make them money, so for them WIN

As an aside... I see this as a testbed for new ideas... we will almost certainly see a DX or FX mirrorless from Nikon...it's the future... seems they are off to a flying start with their off-sensor AF and metering systems...

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dgc4rter
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Re: Epic Win or Epic Fail - J1/V1
In reply to jerrycambuk, Sep 21, 2011

As a proud owner of a Nikon D700 and D7000 - what was I hoping to see from the new mirrorless offering that would complement these two outstanding DSLRs?

Well, let's list my personal requirements;

1.) Small, well-built and well-designed compact body (but not too small to be finicky and difficult to handle)

2.) A sensor that can compete with the current cream of the competition. IMO the ones to beat are, undoubtedly, the Sony NEX systems. Not bothered about megapixels. Low light, high ISO performance is the Holy Grail in my book. The D300 APS-C 12 Mp sensor would have done it for me.

3.) Controls and functions geared up for the enthusiast photog. i.e. Easy to get at functions.
4.) State of the Art EVF. Comparable with Sony's or Fuji X100.

5.) Good range of small, fast prime lenses. I really don't see the point of putting massive lenses on a small compact camera. I may as well just keep using my DSLRs.

Obviously a few others but the above are the ones that easily spring to mind.

So, how many of these requirements does the J1/V1 satisfy. Errr... none really.

I have a Sony NEX-7 on pre-order because I think this camera is going to be a real "game changer". There's no doubt that it is causing a serious buzz around the industry and community. I can't see anything like that being generated from Nikon's announcement today.
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Sensor This
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Re: Epic Win or Epic Fail - J1/V1: They Already Won
In reply to jerrycambuk, Sep 21, 2011

People are talking about them.

jerrycambuk wrote:

I'm starting this thread simply as I was getting annoyed reading some of the garbage written on here, and other forums, by gear heads moaning about the J1/V1 launch as if it is worse than the ending of time. So, I am asking the question many have already commented on in other posts, has Nikon scored an EPIC WIN, or an EPIC FAIL with the J1/V1 launch today?

My twopenneth:

As a D700 user with a bag of F mount lenses, and with a wife and small son as well, the LIFESTYLE choice (knocked by so many) of the V1 is for me, very interesting.

It will not replace my D700 (never never never) BUT........ My wife, who is not a photohead but loves taking photos, and loves the quality we get from the D700 and the F mounts, will probably love a V1, and the adaptor to use our 16/35 or 50 f1.4. We may well buy a V1 with (horrors!!) a kit lens, and I'm sure my non techno wife will love it, as will my son, for whom this type of camera will be simple to use and will give him great results which at the age of 2 1/2 he would never be able to get from Daddy's DSLR.

Furthermore, the claimed focussing speed and shooting time lag could make this supposedly worthless compact into the only camera apart from a fully blown DSLR which is actually fast enough for kid and sports photography, but in a small package. And that is a huge positive.

Finally, back to LIFESTYLE - the thought of HD video in a small cam like this makes me think that now is the time to say bye bye to the Canon Legria (no HD) the couple of old Powershots, and the Canon D10, to be replaced by one compact camera which looks to have excellent compatability with my 'big-boy' system.

So, EPIC WIN Nikon, well done.

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harry
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Re: Epic Win or Epic Fail - J1/V1
In reply to jerrycambuk, Sep 21, 2011

I see there's a place for Nikon 1 to co-exist with other mirrorless system for the following reasons:

1. For Nikon loyalists, who would use a Nikon camera when there's a competitive model available (P7100 to Canon's G12, for example).

2. For photographers who don't mind owning various levels of camera systems, for various purposes. Raise your hands if you have an iPhone, iPad, iPod, multiple HDTVs and Blu-Ray players.

3. The CX format fill the missing sensor size gap, like it or not. If people have been impressed by the XZ-1 or LX5 still images, a CX sensor could only be better (most likely).

4. One fact about Nikon 1 that tells a lot about the new system - sticking to a 10MP sensor. This is kind of admitting (yet not really admitting) the insanity for pixel chasers. For people who are too sick of large pixel counts, the Nikon 1 offers a very sensible alternative to be against the trend.

5. The key (in my opinion) for Nikon 1's future staying power is quickly rolling out the lens lineup, faster primes, for example. An excellent 85mm equivalent F1.8 to show Nikon 1's portrait potential, like Olympus's new 45mm F1.8 for m4/3 would help attract more followers. The basic ingredients are there, just need more lenses, and FAST.
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dgc4rter
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Re: Epic Win or Epic Fail - J1/V1: They Already Won
In reply to Sensor This, Sep 21, 2011

Sensor This wrote:

People are talking about them.

Oh yes, but mostly in a negative way. The majority of posts I'm reading seem less than impressed. Do you think it stands a chance lined up against the NEX-7?
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kewlguy
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Re: Epic Win or Epic Fail - J1/V1
In reply to jerrycambuk, Sep 21, 2011

LOL, you want your wife to have the V1 so that you can share the 50/1.4?

Do you know that the toy sensor of V1 will only use small central part of full frame lenses? You'd be lucky if your 50/1.4 is able to match the resolving power needed by the tiny pixels.

Oh, btw, to use your 50/1.4 and lovely 16-35 on V1 you'll need more than the cost of V1 itselt ($899) because it needs a special adapter to use F lenses. So total cost will be more than $1000. And congratulations, you'll take nice soft pictures at f/1.4!

Now, if you take Oly's EPL1 at $349 and put on the new 45/1.8 at less than $500 - that makes sense! the quality, without a doubt, will be much better than V1 + ANY lenses...at ANY kind of lighting. Period.

And there are many sharp 4/3 optics at less than $500. 20/1.7, 14-45, etc..

Or NEX-5N? That's cheap, IMO. $699 with all metal kit lens. It uses modified D7000 sensor which is much larger than V1 sensor...

So there is no epic here. Lifestyle? What is that actually. Cameras are tools. It works, or it's cr@p.

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kewlguy
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Re: Epic Win or Epic Fail - J1/V1
In reply to harry, Sep 21, 2011

Sorry, I don't know what you meant by 85/1.8 portrait potential or something...

If you need f/1.8~f/2.8 to create pleasing blur often associated with portraits on FF/APS - I can't imagine what f/stop you'll need to recreate the effect on V1's tiny sensor!

The lens got to be bloody FAST! probably f/0.6-f/0.9 (someone with better math can help here). And that's impossible as we know it unless Nikon secretly mastered some alien optical technology

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futurewah
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Re: Epic Win or Epic Fail - J1/V1
In reply to dgc4rter, Sep 21, 2011

regarding your comment about the NEX-7... I agree... it has been on my radar for some time too... I lost interest in the Nikon mirrorless system when I first heard about the crop factor... I think Sony made the right choice with APS-C... it's the small SLR replacement I want

As an aside, I see the 1 system as a testbed for new technologies... I think we will see a DX and FX mirrorless from Nikon at some point... it's the future... and they seem to be off to a flying start with their off-sensor AF and metering systems......

dgc4rter wrote:

As a proud owner of a Nikon D700 and D7000 - what was I hoping to see from the new mirrorless offering that would complement these two outstanding DSLRs?

Well, let's list my personal requirements;

1.) Small, well-built and well-designed compact body (but not too small to be finicky and difficult to handle)

2.) A sensor that can compete with the current cream of the competition. IMO the ones to beat are, undoubtedly, the Sony NEX systems. Not bothered about megapixels. Low light, high ISO performance is the Holy Grail in my book. The D300 APS-C 12 Mp sensor would have done it for me.

3.) Controls and functions geared up for the enthusiast photog. i.e. Easy to get at functions.
4.) State of the Art EVF. Comparable with Sony's or Fuji X100.

5.) Good range of small, fast prime lenses. I really don't see the point of putting massive lenses on a small compact camera. I may as well just keep using my DSLRs.

Obviously a few others but the above are the ones that easily spring to mind.

So, how many of these requirements does the J1/V1 satisfy. Errr... none really.

I have a Sony NEX-7 on pre-order because I think this camera is going to be a real "game changer". There's no doubt that it is causing a serious buzz around the industry and community. I can't see anything like that being generated from Nikon's announcement today.
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myzel
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Re: Epic Win or Epic Fail - J1/V1
In reply to Taikonaut, Sep 21, 2011

Taikonaut wrote:

… It cant do RAW. …

It supports 12 bit compressed NEF - just like the Nikon dSLRs. So, yes it can do RAW.

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