Will SONY sink Leica?

Started Sep 10, 2011 | Discussions
DFPanno
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Will SONY sink Leica?
Sep 10, 2011

Apologies in advance if this topic has been already beat to death; I don't have a digital Leica so I don't spend much time here.

It just seems that the new NEX cameras are incredible even with the kit lens.

Add "Leica" lenses and OMG.

All at a fraction (a small fraction) of the cost of a M9.

How in the world can Leica keep up with SONY???

Can you imagine a rebadged NEX being sold as a Leica at some point?

Looks like the future will be interesting and exciting for both companies.

Maybe a little too interesting for Leica's taste.

Not trying to bait anyone; just curious as to what this forum thinks.

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bpalme
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Re: Will SONY sink Leica?
In reply to DFPanno, Sep 10, 2011

I don't think it will make much difference to Leica. If Sony comes out with a comparable Fullframe rangefinder that fits Leica M glass then it would be a different story. It won't sell for $1500 though... It would probably be close to the Leica price.

I wouldn't mind having a NEX7 myself to play with but the key feature of the M9 is the rangefinder apparatus. Add the viewfinder and FF sensor and there basically is no competition for the size/weight. A 35 mm F1.4 is closer to a 50 on the NEX.. it's still an F1.4 for light gathering power but not for DOF.

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harold1968
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Re: Will SONY sink Leica?
In reply to DFPanno, Sep 10, 2011

the nex7 is a lovely camera but it's not full frame and we need to see the results at base iso.

there is also nothing like the leica lens range, and despite what is said it's a hassle using m lenses on a nex. all the adaptors allow focus past infinity.

lastly the m series is a specialist shooting style which is nowhere near the nex.

the people to be really scared should be nikon and canon. I really think they have their heads in the sand.

DFPanno wrote:

Apologies in advance if this topic has been already beat to death; I don't have a digital Leica so I don't spend much time here.

It just seems that the new NEX cameras are incredible even with the kit lens.

Add "Leica" lenses and OMG.

All at a fraction (a small fraction) of the cost of a M9.

How in the world can Leica keep up with SONY???

Can you imagine a rebadged NEX being sold as a Leica at some point?

Looks like the future will be interesting and exciting for both companies.

Maybe a little too interesting for Leica's taste.

Not trying to bait anyone; just curious as to what this forum thinks.

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JBThePusher
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Re: Will SONY sink Leica?
In reply to harold1968, Sep 10, 2011

I Think Sony, and maybe Fuji soon are very close to be serious competitor

It seems Leica will answer at photokina 2012.

Next step is a sony FF body with EVF, compatible with Leica lens. WIth that, competition will really be open

http://loeildeclencheur.wordpress.com/

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Austin101
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Re: Will SONY sink Leica?
In reply to DFPanno, Sep 11, 2011

At some point in the not to distant future Sony will produce a camera (maybe NEX maybe something else) that is capable of producing comparable and then better image quality than that of the M9 however the NEX7 won't be it.

and unless Sony produce a Rangefinder no matter how good the image quality it will never compete with a Leica M

DFPanno wrote:

Apologies in advance if this topic has been already beat to death; I don't have a digital Leica so I don't spend much time here.

It just seems that the new NEX cameras are incredible even with the kit lens.

Add "Leica" lenses and OMG.

All at a fraction (a small fraction) of the cost of a M9.

How in the world can Leica keep up with SONY???

Can you imagine a rebadged NEX being sold as a Leica at some point?

Looks like the future will be interesting and exciting for both companies.

Maybe a little too interesting for Leica's taste.

Not trying to bait anyone; just curious as to what this forum thinks.

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jedinstvo
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Leica will sink Leica
In reply to DFPanno, Sep 11, 2011

It's been obvious for quite some time they don't really want to be making cameras anymore. They're willed to continue by their incredible history in photography.

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Irakly Shanidze
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Re: Will SONY sink Leica?
In reply to DFPanno, Sep 11, 2011

once you compare files from nex7 and m9 side-by-side, you won't be asking these questions
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lxstorm
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Re: Will SONY sink Leica?
In reply to DFPanno, Sep 11, 2011
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Michael Everett
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Re: Will SONY sink Leica?
In reply to bpalme, Sep 11, 2011

bpalme wrote:

I wouldn't mind having a NEX7 myself to play with but the key feature of the M9 is the rangefinder apparatus.

I am waiting to see how good focus peaking is. It may work just as well as RF appartus, especially when I hear about all the problems with front and back focusing on the M's. I have used a good EVF (GH2) and must admit it dispelled my worries about an EVF as opposed to OVF.

I must admit I am excited about the new NEX's. I am torn between getting a 5n now or waiting for the 7.

Michael

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Michael Everett
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Re: Will SONY sink Leica?
In reply to Irakly Shanidze, Sep 11, 2011

Irakly Shanidze wrote:

once you compare files from nex7 and m9 side-by-side, you won't be asking these questions

Take a look at Steve Huff's comparisons of the M9 and the 5n with the same Leica lens.

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2011/09/05/the-sony-nex-5n-digital-camera-review-a-monster-full-of-features/

I would say the difference is more one of character and preference that superiority.
And that's not even the Nex 7

Michael

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robdel
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Re: Will SONY sink Leica?
In reply to DFPanno, Sep 11, 2011

To be frank, if you can afford a M9 you can also afford a NEX to go along with it. So no, I don't think Leica is particularly concerned. They are after two different markets, and the dynamics of what motivates purchasing in these two markets are pretty different (e.g., the Leica M9 crowd is not generally after "best bang for the buck.").

What cameras like the NEX have done is get people who were never actually in the market for the M9 talking about Leica lenses and possibly purchasing and using them. So I would say the net benefit is to Leica.

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Michael Everett
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Re: Will SONY sink Leica?
In reply to robdel, Sep 12, 2011

robdel wrote:

What cameras like the NEX have done is get people who were never actually in the market for the M9 talking about Leica lenses and possibly purchasing and using them. So I would say the net benefit is to Leica.

I think you are right. I am one of those people that can't afford a Leica but am fond of Leica (and Zeiss) lenses as well as MF. These NEX cameras look like the first that could do some of the lenses justice and make the shooting experience pleasant. The GH2 moved in that direction but didn't quite do it. I have no grudge or envy for those that can afford an M9. I just wish I could afford more lenses. Or let me say I just wish that I could add more Leica lenses without my financial manager (you know who!) going ballistic.

Michael

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David_C_NC
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Re: Will SONY sink Leica?
In reply to Michael Everett, Sep 12, 2011

No,in my opinion ,but I will keep my M4 and scan instead of dropping 10K ( M9P) on a camera that has been trying to replicate the quality I have already only digitally.

Good glass has always been the answer since the beginning of cameras.Leica glass has always been keen as when I was grunt assistant in NYC working for Bob Day he used the Leica R system and it was a rude awaking for me with my L glass from Cannon.You could see the difference in the chromes with a loupe on the light table.

No advantage though being a rangefinder with the mirror less system coming in to it's own as I can see.AND Sony is their own manufacturer of the sensors where as Leica is out sourcing theirs from Kodak and a whole heck of the Leica lenses and cameras are manufactured in Japan not Germany.All my lenses,the few I have,are made in Germany.Whether that is a big deal or not I do not know ,but I do know when the Leica X-1 came out it was made certain to all concerned that this camera was from Germany not Japan.

Of course Sony is in Japan and so I am not sure that is a detriment or not anymore.
When Sony comes out with a FF sensor then we will see how they compare...Maybe

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Michael Everett
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Re: Will SONY sink Leica?
In reply to David_C_NC, Sep 12, 2011

David_C_NC wrote:

Sony is their own manufacturer of the sensors where as Leica is out sourcing theirs from Kodak and a whole heck of the Leica lenses and cameras are manufactured in Japan not Germany.All my lenses,the few I have,are made in Germany.

Aren't or weren't some Leica lenses made in Japan? Ironically when buying Japanese cameras -- Canon, Nikon, Sony, et al -- the thing to look for is that they are made in Japan, not China or somewhere else. Wonder how long before that will change and we will look for equipment made in China?

Michael

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Dirk67
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Re: Will SONY sink Leica?
In reply to Michael Everett, Sep 12, 2011

As far as I know all Leica M lenses are being made in Germany. Leica had a facility in Canada but not anymore. The only lenses made in Japan are the ones that are on re-batched Panasonic cameras. Those are being made to Leica specific requirements/designs but not made in Germany. Same with the Zeiss 35mm lenses for M mount, Canon mount, etc.

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bpalme
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Re: Will SONY sink Leica?
In reply to David_C_NC, Sep 14, 2011

David_C_NC wrote:

No,in my opinion ,but I will keep my M4 and scan instead of dropping 10K ( M9P) on

No advantage though being a rangefinder with the mirror less system coming in to it's own as I can see.AND Sony is their own manufacturer of the sensors where as Leica is out sourcing theirs from Kodak and a whole heck of the Leica lenses and cameras are manufactured in Japan not Germany.

Of course Sony is in Japan and so I am not sure that is a detriment or not anymore.
When Sony comes out with a FF sensor then we will see how they compare...Maybe

Leica lenses are made in Germany. Panasonic/ Leica lenses are not "Leica" lenses. They're Panasonic made with the aid of Leica.
Leica M cameras are made in Germany.

And...the rangefinder is here to stay.. it's the whole reason you can't even get a new leica lens today without waiting on a list.

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robdel
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Re: Will SONY sink Leica?
In reply to Michael Everett, Sep 14, 2011

Perhaps you are thinking of the Minolta M-Rokkor lenses? Optically the same formula as their Leica counterparts, but built by Minolta in Japan for the Leica CL and Minolta CLE.

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glacierpete
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Re: Will SONY sink Leica?
In reply to DFPanno, Sep 14, 2011

I think Sony boost the sale of adapted Leica M/R and Zeiss lenses, and opened for many a taste for the Leica/Zeiss world.

As others mentioned a FF sensor might influence the body sale of the M9. If it comes, the price range should be under the A850. But a NEX and a rangefinder are different tools. I prefer the NEX for acurate focusing.

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javimarcelo
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Re: Will SONY sink Leica?
In reply to DFPanno, Sep 14, 2011

I don't think a Sony NEX is a threat for Leica AT ALL.

I don't own a digital Leica M, but I do own a Leica M6 and the experience shooting a Leica M is way more satisfying (at least to me) than the experience of shooting a NEX, which I've tested.

If and only if a manufacturer makes a full frame RF camera, then Leica could be in trouble, but even in that case I don't think they will be, as people is going to buy the Leica instead of the other brand anyway.

So no, Sony is not going to sink Leica anytime soon.

The only company that can sink Leica is Leica itself, with a bad market strategy.

I wish Zeiss or Cosina/Voigtlander could release a FF RF for about 2500 euros and great IQ. I'd be all over it. M9 prices are too high for me.

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lxstorm
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Re: Will SONY sink Leica?
In reply to bpalme, Sep 14, 2011

And...the rangefinder is here to stay.. it's the whole reason you can't even get a new leica lens today without waiting on a list.

Auto focus is a great and very useful addendum however it was sacrificed to design a camera that suits M concept. The concept was IQ in case of a film media.

However digital sensors be better not so close to a rear glass element. Covering digital sensor with micro-lenses basically kills M-glass benefit and famous image bokeh.

Obviously digital M instrument has no synergy as film M had.

BTW I was able to purchase M glasess at B&H store by simply stepping by 7 years ago. To me wait list is not a good sign. imho means sails are minor and Leica does not manufacture lenses in advance.

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