*production* A77 ISO samples

Started Aug 28, 2011 | Discussions
julienA
Senior MemberPosts: 1,085
Like?
*production* A77 ISO samples
Aug 28, 2011

French site focus-numerique has a production-level A77 (so they say, "exemplaire définitif")

as it's been the case for the A700, early complainers have lost their time writing endless complaints on dpreview and elsewhere: the A77 jpegs are perfectly fine at hi ISO.

http://www.focus-numerique.com/test-1292/reflex-sony-alpha-77-bruit-electronique-12.html

direct access to 3200

http://img1.focus-numerique.com/focus/articles/1292/sony-alpha-77-3200iso-nrstan-big.jpg

direct access to 6400

http://img1.focus-numerique.com/focus/articles/1292/sony-alpha-77-6400iso-nrstan-big.jpg

TomvL
Contributing MemberPosts: 549
Like?
Re: *production* A77 ISO samples
In reply to julienA, Aug 28, 2011

Thanks, it does look great up to 6400.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
ET2
ET2
Senior MemberPosts: 3,756Gear list
Like?
Not production level
In reply to julienA, Aug 28, 2011

julienA wrote:

French site focus-numerique has a production-level A77 (so they say, "exemplaire définitif")

as it's been the case for the A700, early complainers have lost their time writing endless complaints on dpreview and elsewhere: the A77 jpegs are perfectly fine at hi ISO.

http://www.focus-numerique.com/test-1292/reflex-sony-alpha-77-bruit-electronique-12.html

The firmware is exactly same as IR

Software: SLT-A77V v0.58

how is that production model?

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
ktc1
New MemberPosts: 20
Like?
Re: *production* A77 ISO samples
In reply to julienA, Aug 28, 2011

Look pretty good at all isos to me..

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Stephen Carpenter
Contributing MemberPosts: 604Gear list
Like?
Re: *production* A77 ISO samples
In reply to julienA, Aug 28, 2011

Not sure it's production level as the firmware is v0.58. Also these are once again fine quality JPEGs not x.fine.

 Stephen Carpenter's gear list:Stephen Carpenter's gear list
Sony Alpha DSLR-A850 Sony Alpha NEX-5 Sony SLT-A77 Sony 70-400mm F4-5.6 G SSM Sony 85mm F2.8 SAM +5 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
JasperD
Senior MemberPosts: 2,662
Like?
Re: Not production level
In reply to ET2, Aug 28, 2011

He´s only reporting what they say.
Indeed, it´s reported as 0.58, so that makes all the better!

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Drue Mc Laughlin
Regular MemberPosts: 222Gear list
Like?
Re: *production* A77 ISO samples
In reply to julienA, Aug 28, 2011

Thanks for that ...most interesting

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
FredSpain
Junior MemberPosts: 36
Like?
Re: Not production level
In reply to ET2, Aug 28, 2011

ET2 wrote:

julienA wrote:

French site focus-numerique has a production-level A77 (so they say, "exemplaire définitif")

as it's been the case for the A700, early complainers have lost their time writing endless complaints on dpreview and elsewhere: the A77 jpegs are perfectly fine at hi ISO.

http://www.focus-numerique.com/test-1292/reflex-sony-alpha-77-bruit-electronique-12.html

The firmware is exactly same as IR

Software: SLT-A77V v0.58

how is that production model?

Another remark: Raw files are only 24 M, that seems strange as i would expect files into the 30 M range with a 24Mpx sensor.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Midnighter
Senior MemberPosts: 1,727
Like?
Canon 60D sample from same site
In reply to julienA, Aug 28, 2011

I am looking at the 6400ISO Canon 60D sample at that site. I dont know how to post just a link so add 'http: ' to the begining of this link and see for yourself. The a77 seems to have a lot more noise reduction applied, the details in the batteries are smeared compared to the 60D.

img1.focus-numerique.com/focus/articles/1123/canon-60d-6400iso-nrstan-big.jpg

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
julienA
Senior MemberPosts: 1,085
Like?
Re: Not production level
In reply to FredSpain, Aug 28, 2011

FredSpain wrote:

Another remark: Raw files are only 24 M, that seems strange as i would expect files into the 30 M range with a 24Mpx sensor.

This is cRAW size (cRAW A900 files are the same size). cRAW is pretty much lossless compression (actually it's lossy but in a very clever way which has no impact on IQ).

J

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
julienA
Senior MemberPosts: 1,085
Like?
Re: Canon 60D sample from same site
In reply to Midnighter, Aug 28, 2011

Midnighter wrote:

I am looking at the 6400ISO Canon 60D sample at that site. I dont know how to post just a link so add 'http: ' to the begining of this link and see for yourself. The a77 seems to have a lot more noise reduction applied, the details in the batteries are smeared compared to the 60D.

img1.focus-numerique.com/focus/articles/1123/canon-60d-6400iso-nrstan-big.jpg

The A77 should be downsampled to 60D size for fair comparison. Not sure whether the 60D wins after that.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Midnighter
Senior MemberPosts: 1,727
Like?
Re: Canon 60D sample from same site
In reply to julienA, Aug 28, 2011

Downsampling kills fine detail and can seriously mess with patterns. For all comparisons everywhere I prefer to upsample both images to 2x the size of the larger image and move further away from my screen.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Amateur Sony Shooter
Senior MemberPosts: 5,316Gear list
Like?
Re: Canon 60D sample from same site
In reply to julienA, Aug 28, 2011

julienA wrote:

Midnighter wrote:

I am looking at the 6400ISO Canon 60D sample at that site. I dont know how to post just a link so add 'http: ' to the begining of this link and see for yourself. The a77 seems to have a lot more noise reduction applied, the details in the batteries are smeared compared to the 60D.

img1.focus-numerique.com/focus/articles/1123/canon-60d-6400iso-nrstan-big.jpg

The A77 should be downsampled to 60D size for fair comparison. Not sure whether the 60D wins after that.

I just did side by side comparison, and A77 downsized to match 60D and D7000, I am afraid there is no good news, still the same old smear jpeg:

 Amateur Sony Shooter's gear list:Amateur Sony Shooter's gear list
Sony RX100 Canon EOS 7D Sony SLT-A99 Sony 70-200mm F2.8 G Sony 16-35mm F2.8 ZA SSM Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* +11 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
GuyMcKie
Contributing MemberPosts: 534
Like?
Re: Canon 60D sample from same site
In reply to Midnighter, Aug 28, 2011

The nr is to agressive (standard nr). Less nr and some pp could be better.

I downsampled the picture to the same size as the Canon. Barely a difference in detail, maybe the a tiny bit better and with less noise.

There is no gain in going from 18mp to 24mp. Using the 16mp sensor of the NEX5N was a better option.

Gr.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
GuyMcKie
Contributing MemberPosts: 534
Like?
Re: Canon 60D sample from same site
In reply to Amateur Sony Shooter, Aug 28, 2011

The nr makes the picture soft and desaturated. With local and micro contrast enhancement and some extra saturation the picture looks better.

There is to much luminance nr, leading in loss of detail, and smearing on the chroma nr.

Gr.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
SteveGJ
Senior MemberPosts: 1,422
Like?
Re: Canon 60D sample from same site
In reply to Midnighter, Aug 28, 2011

People should not forget the A77 is an SLT camera and the sensor gain has to be turned up the equivalent of about half a stop to compensate for the light loss. Thus with the Canon 60D and A77 both at a nominal 6400 ISO the Sony will, in effect, have it's sensor at the equivalent of 9,000 ISO. For equivalent IQ its sensor has to have technology about half a stop better. That's one of the compromises that the SLT design requires.

I'll hold judgement until I see properly processed RAWs with a fully optimised converter. I'll also be interest to see NEX 7 results. As it is, I'd be very surprised if the 24MP sensor doesn't outperform the 16MP one (in similar architecture cameras) when the DXOMark comes out. DXOmark is based on a normalised output size of course.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
underxposed59
Contributing MemberPosts: 710
Like?
Re: Not production level
In reply to julienA, Aug 28, 2011

julienA wrote:

FredSpain wrote:

Another remark: Raw files are only 24 M, that seems strange as i would expect files into the 30 M range with a 24Mpx sensor.

This is cRAW size (cRAW A900 files are the same size). cRAW is pretty much lossless compression (actually it's lossy but in a very clever way which has no impact on IQ).

J

I believe that Paul Genge from Sony UK in the live question and answer broadcast said that SONY had dropped cRAW because no one uses it and people hate the term compressed.
The live stream has since been taken down at Sony's request.

:-/

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
webgeek
Regular MemberPosts: 323
Like?
Re: Canon 60D sample from same site
In reply to SteveGJ, Aug 28, 2011

I have both the NEX-5 and SLT-A55. I take test images using both 18-55mm kit lens on each camera. Shot both JPG and RAW. The sensor on both camera is basically the same. The only different being the SLT-A55 have EVF and have 1/3 less light to the sensor.

The result is obvious at 100% and 200%. The winner is NEX-5 with better smoother ISO across all range. This led me to believe that the SLT design requires a higher gain to achieve similar ISO, therefore more noise.

I hope the firmware engineer do some magic to compensate for the SLT loss-of-light to the sensor and the 24mp monster packed into the APS-C.

I will still buy the A77 but will have to learn new tricks to deal with the apparent noise.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
underxposed59
Contributing MemberPosts: 710
Like?
Re: Not production level
In reply to underxposed59, Aug 28, 2011

underxposed59 wrote:

julienA wrote:

FredSpain wrote:

Another remark: Raw files are only 24 M, that seems strange as i would expect files into the 30 M range with a 24Mpx sensor.

This is cRAW size (cRAW A900 files are the same size). cRAW is pretty much lossless compression (actually it's lossy but in a very clever way which has no impact on IQ).

J

I believe that Paul Genge from Sony UK in the live question and answer broadcast said that SONY had dropped cRAW because no one uses it and people hate the term compressed.
The live stream has since been taken down at Sony's request.

:-/

I found the webcast on Photoclubalpha
Look @ 01:08:43
RAW file size is 27.6 MB
and no cRAW
http://www.photoclubalpha.com/2011/08/24/sony-uks-live-qa-webcam-sesssion/

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Midnighter
Senior MemberPosts: 1,727
Like?
Hmmm...
In reply to SteveGJ, Aug 28, 2011

Is it? You raise an interesting point. Back in the day when film was a fixed ISO I used two Canon F1 bodies that had light meters which, though supposedly identical, still differed by 1/3 of an f-stop from one another. Though I used an incident light meter during most times the ISO dial was always set 1/3 of a stop 'off' on the camera that registered high for the times I had to spot meter. Variations in metering accuracy, shutter speed consistency on the high end and reciprocity failure on the long end then meant that exposures were really set up on a camera by camera basis. The same thing applied to the Mamiya's. Even with the same ISO film in the various cameras exposures were different and each camera was given a compensation to dial in on the light meter so that exposures (on the film) would come out the same for each camera. This meant that shutter speed varied on the dial. The idea that the film could be 'cheated' of light did not enter into it... the cameras bent themselves to serve the film and proper exposure, not what the ISO dial said. Hmmm...

SteveGJ wrote:

People should not forget the A77 is an SLT camera and the sensor gain has to be turned up the equivalent of about half a stop to compensate for the light loss.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads