Michael Reichmann explains the SD1 price...

Started Jul 23, 2011 | Discussions
stanislaw stitchanow
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It might but reality is different
In reply to Roland Karlsson, Jul 26, 2011

Olympus has shown that there is no weight advantage.
All the better lenses are as heavy or heavier than FF pendants.
Olympus 300mm is 3290g Sigma 300mm is 2400g
I have shown examples from lenses with the same FOV from Sigma also.

If you even think to jump in please post examples where lenses with the same FOV are lighter.
If not your posting is irrelevant

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Roland Karlsson
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Re: Ha, ha, ha...
In reply to worldcup1982, Jul 26, 2011

worldcup1982 wrote:

I can't help wondering how a buyer (if MRs explanation is true) feels knowing that the camera could cost 2000 usd...how would you feel paying 7000usd for a camera and soon after, discover that the price is simply a "marketing" (or whatever) decision?

That depends on several things.

1. Do you care? Maybe the amount of money you paid did not affect you. Either because your rich or because you dont need the money.

2. What happens with the price afterwards? Some people dislikes heavily that something expensive they bought drops in price. We have seen that earlier in this very forum - people that gets mighty upset when e.g. DP1 can be bought at half the price, claiming that they have been swindled in their investment.

3. Do you want to be exclusive? Some people like to buy mere expensive stuff. Then the are more unique. Something that they value. Thats typical for mode and jewellery and perfume and things like Rolex watches. Even cameras - which partly accounts for Leica's price.

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worldcup1982
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Re: Ha, ha, ha...
In reply to Roland Karlsson, Jul 26, 2011

Roland Karlsson wrote:

1. Do you care? Maybe the amount of money you paid did not affect you. Either because your rich or because you dont need the money.

2. What happens with the price afterwards? Some people dislikes heavily that something expensive they bought drops in price. We have seen that earlier in this very forum - people that gets mighty upset when e.g. DP1 can be bought at half the price, claiming that they have been swindled in their investment.

3. Do you want to be exclusive? Some people like to buy mere expensive stuff. Then the are more unique. Something that they value. Thats typical for mode and jewellery and perfume and things like Rolex watches. Even cameras - which partly accounts for Leica's price.

I think somehow is all linked...(1,2,3)...and separates the well informed rich from
the one who doesn't give a s# !t for what he is paying for...

If you care about what you are paying for, you know a Leica will hardly drop price so much (as a sigma) and probably you will know leicas history in lenses and photography...
Well, just MPV...

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Richard Franiec
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Re: The price was already set at below $2000.00 prior to the release.
In reply to DMillier, Jul 26, 2011

DMillier wrote:

Maybe it could be rebadged as a Mark 2 or SD1i with some superficial changes? It's such a shame really, this debacle, because priced reasonably it is clear that the camera has what it takes to put the Foveon chip firmly on the map. People would forgive that bad and accept the goodness at the right price....

People would still forgive the initial blunder.

It would take the correct decision to do what is right. This could be the most horrific thing to deal with, taking into account what was said on Sigma part so far. No matter how many "loaners" they give away, the exposure for SD-1 as exceptional photo taking tool will be very narrow. A few pictures in sports, fashion magazines or National Geographic would be lot more helpful. To reach larger market, much more than the current package should be offered, leaving the IQ alone:

-competent camera body including processing speed and functions available in competing systems
-support including pro
-processing software able to handle SD1 files without reinventing the wheel,
-listening to the customer base to address the shortcomings
-correct pricing policy
-multiple system mounts offered

Counting on the current strategy, Foveon chip will be facing uphill battle which will become steeper with every advancement in competing technologies.

Cheers

Richard

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fred_rdt
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Reality proves theory
In reply to stanislaw stitchanow, Jul 26, 2011

As expected.

500mm F4,5 EX DG 3150 g

300mm F2,8 EX DG 2400 g

Now imagine a theoretical 300mm DC. The front lens would be the same, but towards the rear end of the lens you could still save some glass.

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Chuck Lantz
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Re: and he would know this how?
In reply to leonard callow, Jul 26, 2011

leonard callow wrote:

But Chuck, the difference is that I am not pretending knowledge that I cannot have -whereas the idle speculators, much like fishwives gossipping, are.

again - what MR says is that there is no tech or other reason - price is merely one persons whim . . .
I say BULL - how does he pretend to this "knowledge"

phht. idle speculation is still speculation - I am just surprised that so many otherwise mature individuals seem to engage in it and not see it for what it is.

Leonard: And what I'm saying is "consider the source(s)." If enough previously trustworthy people from a group are all saying the same thing, the chances of their opinion being accurate go way up. Check out the sources on the topic at hand; ... they aren't all the usual rumor-mongers.

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"If they're not screaming at you to get out of the way, you're not close enough" - I thought this was original, but it's very close to what someone else said. Oh, well.

"Not to compete whole-heartedly, with a will to win, degrades the sport and insults the competition" - anonymous Olympic long-distance runner

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Chuck Lantz
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Re: Ha, ha, ha...
In reply to Roland Karlsson, Jul 26, 2011

Roland:

I think Rolex is a great example. They sponsor a bunch of the events I shoot, so I see their advertising and promotion output up close. They must sell a hell of a lot of watches to afford it all, which always amazes me since watches costing 1/100th of what even a stainless steel Rolex goes for keep better time and have loads more functions. But, obviously, thay ain't a Rolex.

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"If they're not screaming at you to get out of the way, you're not close enough" - I thought this was original, but it's very close to what someone else said. Oh, well.

"Not to compete whole-heartedly, with a will to win, degrades the sport and insults the competition" - anonymous Olympic long-distance runner

"Mongo not know ... Mongo just pawn in game of life." - Mongo

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Richard Franiec
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Re: Ha, ha, ha...
In reply to Chuck Lantz, Jul 26, 2011

Chuck Lantz wrote:

Roland:

I think Rolex is a great example. They sponsor a bunch of the events I shoot, so I see their advertising and promotion output up close. They must sell a hell of a lot of watches to afford it all, which always amazes me since watches costing 1/100th of what even a stainless steel Rolex goes for keep better time and have loads more functions. But, obviously, thay ain't a Rolex.

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"If they're not screaming at you to get out of the way, you're not close enough" - I thought this was original, but it's very close to what someone else said. Oh, well.

And Sigma is no Leica. It takes a bit of work and heritage to build reputation to sell the product for the premium price. No wannabes have a chance LOL.

Cheers

Richard

"Not to compete whole-heartedly, with a will to win, degrades the sport and insults the competition" - anonymous Olympic long-distance runner

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Roland Karlsson
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Re: Ha, ha, ha...
In reply to Richard Franiec, Jul 26, 2011

Richard Franiec wrote:

And Sigma is no Leica. It takes a bit of work and heritage to build reputation to sell the product for the premium price. No wannabes have a chance LOL.

The Leica M9 is actually a very good camera. Too expensive for me and maybe more expensive than really motivated. But ... the camera is very good. And its really unique - not only the high price makes the buyer unique ... also the camera.

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Roland Karlsson
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Re: It might but reality is different
In reply to stanislaw stitchanow, Jul 26, 2011

stanislaw stitchanow wrote:

Olympus has shown that there is no weight advantage.

No ... they have only shown that the lenses they make are heavy.

If you even think to jump in please post examples where lenses with the same FOV are lighter.

Theory is enough. Its obvious that larger sensors demand heavier lenses.

If not your posting is irrelevant

Taking Olympus as example is irrelevant.

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Roland Karlsson
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Re: The price was already set at below $2000.00 prior to the release.
In reply to Richard Franiec, Jul 26, 2011

Richard Franiec wrote:

People would still forgive the initial blunder.

Of course. But .... why do you think that matters?

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Roland Karlsson
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Re: and he would know this how?
In reply to Chuck Lantz, Jul 26, 2011

Chuck Lantz wrote:

Leonard: And what I'm saying is "consider the source(s)." If enough previously trustworthy people from a group are all saying the same thing, the chances of their opinion being accurate go way up. Check out the sources on the topic at hand; ... they aren't all the usual rumor-mongers.

That depends - maybe the people saying it all have the same source, directly or indirectly.

It might still be true - but the info is in this case not more reliable because more are saying it.

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Truman Prevatt
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Re: ...is this guy still working for Sigma ?...
In reply to worldcup1982, Jul 27, 2011

When you own the majority of the stock - you are he head MIFWC. When it is a privately owned company and you own the majority of the stock - you do what you want. Who knows the reason - it is his company and he can set the price where he wants.

If you don't want to buy that is your choice.

worldcup1982 wrote:

FritsThomsen wrote:

worldcup1982 wrote:

I fail to understand how amateur a company can be...one guy? this shows how much Sigma is behind the competition...not just product wise, even executives are worse than others...the guy didn't know sigma doesnt even have lenses to support the new camera? is this guy still working for Sigma?....

He he .. Yes !! He owns it

Ouch..then he must fire himself...lol...

No doubt Mr.Reichmann is refering to none other than the owner and founder

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Richard Franiec
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Re: The price was already set at below $2000.00 prior to the release.
In reply to Roland Karlsson, Jul 27, 2011

Roland Karlsson wrote:

Richard Franiec wrote:

People would still forgive the initial blunder.

Of course. But .... why do you think that matters?

For me, I keep my options open. When I'll see some common sense and the price to match I'll jump on the Sigma DSLR wagon to satisfy my curiosity. How about you, Roland?

Cheers

Richard

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Richard Franiec
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Re: Ha, ha, ha...
In reply to Roland Karlsson, Jul 27, 2011

Roland Karlsson wrote:

Richard Franiec wrote:

And Sigma is no Leica. It takes a bit of work and heritage to build reputation to sell the product for the premium price. No wannabes have a chance LOL.

The Leica M9 is actually a very good camera. Too expensive for me and maybe more expensive than really motivated. But ... the camera is very good. And its really unique - not only the high price makes the buyer unique ... also the camera.

My thoughts exactly. And at last, the resale value could be reassuring when making purchasing decision. I can say this as the D-Lux4 owner, not a real Leica but it still holds the value, more so than DP models regardless of IQ.

Cheers

Richard

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worldcup1982
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Re: ...is this guy still working for Sigma ?...
In reply to Truman Prevatt, Jul 27, 2011

Truman Prevatt wrote:

When you own the majority of the stock - you are he head MIFWC. When it is a privately owned company and you own the majority of the stock - you do what you want. Who knows the reason - it is his company and he can set the price where he wants.

Still, any company wants profit...more, not less, unless you are an eccentric fellow...and in the end, even if he owns the company, after making the camera avaiable for selling, he and the camera can be criticised...

If you don't want to buy that is your choice.

Of course, that's pretty obvious...and i do have the right to think that someone who buys a camera that could cost 2000 for 7000 is making a very bad choice, specially comparing the other options at the same price....i would feel like a fool paying 7000 and then discovering the cameras price could easily be 2000-3000...but hey, i do value the money i earn...

worldcup1982 wrote:

FritsThomsen wrote:

worldcup1982 wrote:

I fail to understand how amateur a company can be...one guy? this shows how much Sigma is behind the competition...not just product wise, even executives are worse than others...the guy didn't know sigma doesnt even have lenses to support the new camera? is this guy still working for Sigma?....

He he .. Yes !! He owns it

Ouch..then he must fire himself...lol...

No doubt Mr.Reichmann is refering to none other than the owner and founder

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Roland Karlsson
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Re: The price was already set at below $2000.00 prior to the release.
In reply to Richard Franiec, Jul 27, 2011

Richard Franiec wrote:

For me, I keep my options open. When I'll see some common sense and the price to match I'll jump on the Sigma DSLR wagon to satisfy my curiosity. How about you, Roland?

I dont know. I have other cameras that give nice images.

I am interested in any technology that can eliminate CFA sampling. But - with current very good CFA cameras, the interest is more and more a theoretical interest rather than a real need.

It would be nice with a Foveon (or other 3 layer sensors) though. Sharpness down to pixel level has its charm.

But - yet another system with yet another set of lenses, sux big time.

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Roland Karlsson
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Re: Ha, ha, ha...
In reply to Richard Franiec, Jul 27, 2011

Richard Franiec wrote:

My thoughts exactly. And at last, the resale value could be reassuring when making purchasing decision. I can say this as the D-Lux4 owner, not a real Leica but it still holds the value, more so than DP models regardless of IQ.

No disrespect intended, but the rebadged Panasonic cameras I think is in the category of buying Leica for the red dot. Not that they are bad cameras, but the price is only motivated by it being named a Leica ... and maybe the different design.

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