Stuck in 2 minds - just wanted to get my thoughts out...

Started May 24, 2011 | Discussions
Herts_JoaTMoN
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Stuck in 2 minds - just wanted to get my thoughts out...
May 24, 2011

Been looking forward to the new NEX lenses for a while now, but having recently come back from holiday, I can see the benefit of having a superzoom. But at £700 it is an expensive lens and at the 200 end id like to be shooting some more action shots and animals/ birds etc. Not sure if the NEX is up to the job as I fear it wont be able to keep up.

This got me thinking that maybe I should get a second camera now that im getting more serious about my photography. With the a77 on the horizon, I could get that (not seen estimated prices yet, £700 body only??). I dont see the a55 as enough of an improvement over the NEX to warrent investment.
a superzoom (perhaps the Tamron 18-200 or 18-270 (£170 / £500)
Sony 30 2.8 MACRO or SONY 28 2.8 (£160 / £200)
Sony 50 1.4 (£310)

Id then have a good ranges of lenses, potentially 3 for £640 if I chose the cheaper options above and a Body that is more capable in some situations than my NEX.

Id keep the NEX as my daily carry around camera with the 18-55. Also use it for landscape work and out on my bike with the 16 and sometimes with the 12mm adaptor. And use the a77 for days when i want to do some more serious shooting.

Or, I will stick with the NEX and buy lenses in similar ranges to the ones above once they are available. I have a feeling they will all be quite pricey though due to the silent motors and form factor etc.

Decisions decisions...

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Dennis
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Re: Stuck in 2 minds - just wanted to get my thoughts out...
In reply to Herts_JoaTMoN, May 24, 2011

Herts_JoaTMoN wrote:

Been looking forward to the new NEX lenses for a while now, but having recently come back from holiday, I can see the benefit of having a superzoom. But at £700 it is an expensive lens and at the 200 end id like to be shooting some more action shots and animals/ birds etc. Not sure if the NEX is up to the job as I fear it wont be able to keep up.

I agree with that assessment; although I haven't used the 18-200, I doubt it's faster than the 18-55. A faster NEX may be out at some point, but how long can you hold your breath ? What if the next model isn't fast enough, do you keep waiting ?

This got me thinking that maybe I should get a second camera now that im getting more serious about my photography. With the a77 on the horizon, I could get that (not seen estimated prices yet, £700 body only??). I dont see the a55 as enough of an improvement over the NEX to warrent investment.

What kind of improvement are you looking for ? You mentioned "keeping up". The A55 will blow the doors off of the NEX. It's a very responsive camera. The A77 may prove more so, at a rumored price of only $250 more, and ought to feature a much improved EVF. The other thing you want to consider is just how responsive the super zooms are. A DSLR with the right lens will definitely handle wildlife; I don't really have any idea how good the super zooms are in that regard.

Id keep the NEX as my daily carry around camera with the 18-55. Also use it for landscape work and out on my bike with the 16 and sometimes with the 12mm adaptor. And use the a77 for days when i want to do some more serious shooting.

At one point I got to dreaming about doing more & more with the NEX and less & less with my DSLR, but the more I use the NEX, the more I prefer my DSLR. The NEX if much handier and still the "grab & go" choice, but I expect to own a modest lens lineup for it, and continued reliance on the DSLR for more than just sports.

  • Dennis

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jazzroy1972
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Re: Stuck in 2 minds - just wanted to get my thoughts out...
In reply to Herts_JoaTMoN, May 24, 2011

If you want a superzoom you better stitch to Nex 18-200 one.

Simple reasons:

  • focus speed

  • image stabilization

  • size

  • overall price/performance ratio

Let me explain:

Having a superzoom has advantages, but also drawbacks, first of all is small aperture (most of them at 200 are around F6).

This means you need stabilization, not only to shot sharp, but also to lock the target easily.

You can use every kind of lens with the Nex, but obviously you need an adapter.

All the adapters allow you to use only full manual focus lenses, that means only old lenses (no 18-200) and without stabilization.

The only adapter that can use modern lenses is the one for the Alpha mount, which costs around 150 bucks.

With it you can use Sony (or compatible ones) lenses, but you have a huge obstacle: they are not made for mirrorless contrast focus technology, so focus hunting will take SECONDS and won't guarantee success.

So, putting a Tamron with stabilization on top of a Alpha adapter ends up in a quite high cost and a quite unusable kit.

I'd suggest you to choose other paths, and that's from my similar experience (my background was with the bridge superzoom cameras).

Now I'm using only primes, and only fast ones (if I want a tele I have a 135 F2.8 Olympus, simply gorgeous, sharp, lightweight and inexpensive).

The 18-55 kit zoom is left in the dust..

If you're really fond of superzooms the alternative could be to buy the 18-55 kit and wait 2 weeks for the soon to be announced (3 june) 55-200 stabilized Emount lens, which should cost around 250.

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Herts_JoaTMoN
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Re: Stuck in 2 minds - just wanted to get my thoughts out...
In reply to Dennis, May 24, 2011

Dennis wrote:

A faster NEX may be out at some point, but how long can you hold your breath ? What if the next model isn't fast enough, do you keep waiting ?

The a77 isnt due out until October I beleive (will find out more in a few weeks as to the spec), so ill be waiting a little while anyway.

What kind of improvement are you looking for ? You mentioned "keeping up". The A55 will blow the doors off of the NEX. It's a very responsive camera. The A77 may prove more so, at a rumored price of only $250 more, and ought to feature a much improved EVF.

I mainly want faster autofocus at the tele range, but the cheap fast primes are also a factor in me wanting to complement my NEX with an A mount camera. I think it will give me more options to expand as well may be getting a flash further down the line.

The other thing you want to consider is just how responsive the super zooms are. A DSLR with the right lens will definitely handle wildlife; I don't really have any idea how good the super zooms are in that regard.

Im trying to find out this myself. The tamron 18-270 is geting good reviews, but i just read that the sony version does not have image stabilisation, I dont think thats for all models though as I see VC versions available on a mount. But its compact, light, silent and meant to be fast to focus which made it appeal to me.

At one point I got to dreaming about doing more & more with the NEX and less & less with my DSLR, but the more I use the NEX, the more I prefer my DSLR. The NEX if much handier and still the "grab & go" choice, but I expect to own a modest lens lineup for it, and continued reliance on the DSLR for more than just sports.

I think i'd end up in a similar situation.

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Herts_JoaTMoN
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Re: Stuck in 2 minds - just wanted to get my thoughts out...
In reply to jazzroy1972, May 24, 2011

jazzroy1972 wrote:

Having a superzoom has advantages, but also drawbacks, first of all is small aperture (most of them at 200 are around F6).

This means you need stabilization, not only to shot sharp, but also to lock the target easily.

So, putting a Tamron with stabilization on top of a Alpha adapter ends up in a quite high cost and a quite unusable kit.

Id only be getting the Tamron if I get the a77 towards the end of the year. If I stick with my NEX only, then I will get the e mount 18-200, unless there is significant improvements at the 55-200 range on the 55-200 when that comes out.

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gfrensen
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Re: Stuck in 2 minds - just wanted to get my thoughts out...
In reply to Herts_JoaTMoN, May 24, 2011

A two camera kit is the best thing you can have, especialy when you go for the combination of an Alpha camera and a Nex camera. You can use the Alpha lenses adapted on the Nex and still use the automatic exposure (or use Apperture from the camera) Some lenses will AF bbit they will do it slowly... (look at this picture, taken with the Sony adapter and the Sony 70-400mm lens at 400mm hand held (but supported) It is sharp (while Auto Focused)

But for birds in flight you better switch to a DSLR type of camera.I think the A55 is a great camera, it focus fast and accurate, it is fast when taking bursts with AF, it is not to expensive... The A77 is rumored to cost about $ 1000,--So you can save some $$ and buy a nice extra lens... Super zooms have alwys drawbacks, like slow, optical not the best or very expensive (like the 70-400mm)

This picture is take with the same 70-400 mm but with the A700

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Herts_JoaTMoN
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Re: Stuck in 2 minds - just wanted to get my thoughts out...
In reply to gfrensen, May 24, 2011

Thanks.

Im finding my self leaning more and more towards the 2 camera route.

As for the concerns about superzooms, ive read nothing but glowing reviews of this one. Optically good (little soft at the tele end and some CA). Small. Light. Image stabilisation works well. The new focusing system is fast and near silent. Its not optically fast (f.5.6 at 70mm), but I'll take that drawback for the versitility. And id be getting fast primes anyway. Seems like im sold...

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gfrensen
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Re: Stuck in 2 minds - just wanted to get my thoughts out...
In reply to Herts_JoaTMoN, May 24, 2011

Good thinking! I hope you will enjoy both cameras and lenses....

Herts_JoaTMoN wrote:

Thanks.

Im finding my self leaning more and more towards the 2 camera route.

As for the concerns about superzooms, ive read nothing but glowing reviews of this one. Optically good (little soft at the tele end and some CA). Small. Light. Image stabilisation works well. The new focusing system is fast and near silent. Its not optically fast (f.5.6 at 70mm), but I'll take that drawback for the versitility. And id be getting fast primes anyway. Seems like im sold...

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blue_skies
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Re: Stuck in 2 minds - just wanted to get my thoughts out...
In reply to Herts_JoaTMoN, May 25, 2011

If you plan to shoot any video, you will fall in love with the SEL18200, the lens is absolutely wonderful for video.

If you like action shots of birds and animals, you may actually very much prefer the a77 or the a55 (more compact). You will also have a choice of longer range (IBIS) stabilized autofocus lens options.

If you only shoot occasionally, the NEX will do fine, and a cheap, non e-mount telelens will shine on an adapter. It is a valid alternative, plus you can wait for the 55-200 and see what it offers.

You will likely carry the NEX to more places that you will take your a55/a77. Size, and weight, does matter.

Also, with the a-mount to e-mount adapter LCAEA1, you can mount your alpha glass on either the aXX or the NEX, something else to consider.

Unless you shoot daily, have a professional need or have a serious hobby, I'd recommend to go with a one camera solution first. You may in fact like a high end P&S as an alternative, just because it fits in your pocket, all the time.

Since you already have the NEX, I'd suggest to enjoy the lenses that you have, and decide whether or not you miss anything for real. If birding is of interest, why not look at some of the 30x hybrid cameras - they work very well - and cost much less than the superzoom?

Also, a wish list is fun - you may change it as time progresses. If you spend it all up front you better like what you got - for every year you will have new offerings and decisions to make then.

Stick to the NEX, enjoy the little camera, and plan a budget over time.

Herts_JoaTMoN wrote:

Been looking forward to the new NEX lenses for a while now, but having recently come back from holiday, I can see the benefit of having a superzoom. But at £700 it is an expensive lens and at the 200 end id like to be shooting some more action shots and animals/ birds etc. Not sure if the NEX is up to the job as I fear it wont be able to keep up.

This got me thinking that maybe I should get a second camera now that im getting more serious about my photography. With the a77 on the horizon, I could get that (not seen estimated prices yet, £700 body only??). I dont see the a55 as enough of an improvement over the NEX to warrent investment.
a superzoom (perhaps the Tamron 18-200 or 18-270 (£170 / £500)
Sony 30 2.8 MACRO or SONY 28 2.8 (£160 / £200)
Sony 50 1.4 (£310)

Id then have a good ranges of lenses, potentially 3 for £640 if I chose the cheaper options above and a Body that is more capable in some situations than my NEX.

Id keep the NEX as my daily carry around camera with the 18-55. Also use it for landscape work and out on my bike with the 16 and sometimes with the 12mm adaptor. And use the a77 for days when i want to do some more serious shooting.

Or, I will stick with the NEX and buy lenses in similar ranges to the ones above once they are available. I have a feeling they will all be quite pricey though due to the silent motors and form factor etc.

Decisions decisions...

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Henry Richardson
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A55 + Tamron 18-270mm PZD
In reply to Herts_JoaTMoN, May 25, 2011

For your uses the A55 would be fine. Get the new Tamron 18-270mm PZD because it has a in-lens focus motor that is quiet and pretty fast. Also owners say it is a bit better optically than the Sony 18-250mm (which doesn't have an in-lens focus motor). The new 35mm f1.8 would be a good companion since it is fast and also has a good, general purpose fov on APS-C. If you really want a macro then I would suggest something longer than the 30mm so you will have a bit more working space. You might check out the expensive Sony 100mm macro or the Tamron 90mm which is a bit less expensive.

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Herts_JoaTMoN
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Re: Stuck in 2 minds - just wanted to get my thoughts out...
In reply to blue_skies, May 25, 2011

blue_skies wrote:

If you plan to shoot any video, you will fall in love with the SEL18200, the lens is absolutely wonderful for video.

Video isnt really a factor in my decision making.

If you like action shots of birds and animals, you may actually very much prefer the a77 or the a55 (more compact). You will also have a choice of longer range (IBIS) stabilized autofocus lens options.

This has been the main factor in me thinking about going down the aXX route.

You will likely carry the NEX to more places that you will take your a55/a77. Size, and weight, does matter.

I have the NEX with me every day and I find its size to be fine, but on days where I want to do more serious shooting (brothers cup final, trips to the zoo and other such days out), I some times find it can be a bit limited with only the 16 and the 18-55.

Also, with the a-mount to e-mount adapter LCAEA1, you can mount your alpha glass on either the aXX or the NEX, something else to consider.

I have the adaptor but found with an a mount lens attached the small size of the NEX is offset by having a large lens and adaptor on it. Might as well have the benifits of the aXX series at a similar size.

Since you already have the NEX, I'd suggest to enjoy the lenses that you have, and decide whether or not you miss anything for real. If birding is of interest, why not look at some of the 30x hybrid cameras - they work very well - and cost much less than the superzoom?

The NEX is serving me well and I enjoyed taking 800+ photos with it in my recent trip to Japan (shared in another thread).

Considered a super zoom, but then I wont be able to adapt it for low light situations like I could if I just put a fast prime on an aXX.

Also, a wish list is fun - you may change it as time progresses. If you spend it all up front you better like what you got - for every year you will have new offerings and decisions to make then.

Stick to the NEX, enjoy the little camera, and plan a budget over time.

Making a wish list has been fun and I enjoy doing the research in to new things and the discusions it brings.

I love my NEX and wont be giving it up if I get a new camera, it's great as a general purpose day to day camera, I've just found that in certain situations it has been a bit limiting and im not sure if with another lens those limitations will be fully addressed.

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Herts_JoaTMoN
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Re: A55 + Tamron 18-270mm PZD
In reply to Henry Richardson, May 25, 2011

Henry Richardson wrote:

For your uses the A55 would be fine. Get the new Tamron 18-270mm PZD because it has a in-lens focus motor that is quiet and pretty fast. Also owners say it is a bit better optically than the Sony 18-250mm (which doesn't have an in-lens focus motor).

Agreed. That lens looks great and im moving more and more towards wanting it as I read reviews. I as concerned at first when i read the sony version doesnt have the image stabilisation, but later found out that all the a series has in body stabilation.

My friend has the a55 and i enjoyed playing with it. Going to wait for the a77 to be announced before making a decision on what to get though.

The new 35mm f1.8 would be a good companion since it is fast and also has a good, general purpose fov on APS-C. If you really want a macro then I would suggest something longer than the 30mm so you will have a bit more working space. You might check out the expensive Sony 100mm macro or the Tamron 90mm which is a bit less expensive.

The second lens I would want is a fast wide to normal prime somewhere between 24-30 for indoor work. The widest i could find at a decent price was the 28mm 2.8.

Id then want a portrait lens, which is why i suggested the 50mm 1.4.

and finally a macro.

In that order of prefference.

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Herts_JoaTMoN
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Re: Stuck in 2 minds - just wanted to get my thoughts out...
In reply to Herts_JoaTMoN, May 25, 2011

Updated lens wish list after a few replies from various places.

1) tamron 18-270mm pzd (£500, only 450g)
2) tamron 17-50mm f2.8 (£340)
3) maybe tamron 90mm f2.8 Macro (£350)
4) sony 50mm f1.8

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GaryW
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Re: Stuck in 2 minds - just wanted to get my thoughts out...
In reply to Herts_JoaTMoN, May 25, 2011

Herts_JoaTMoN wrote:
...

Id only be getting the Tamron if I get the a77 towards the end of the year. If I stick with my NEX only, then I will get the e mount 18-200, unless there is significant improvements at the 55-200 range on the 55-200 when that comes out.

The Alpha 55-200 works well. If the Nex version is at least as good, that'll be good enough for me. This and the 18-55 make a nice pair. Not quite as convenient as a one-lens solution, but you don't always need to carry both. (Sometimes you only need a 55-200. But seriously, a 2 lens solution is adequate.

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Herts_JoaTMoN
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Re: Stuck in 2 minds - just wanted to get my thoughts out...
In reply to GaryW, May 25, 2011

GaryW wrote:

The Alpha 55-200 works well. If the Nex version is at least as good, that'll be good enough for me. This and the 18-55 make a nice pair. Not quite as convenient as a one-lens solution, but you don't always need to carry both. (Sometimes you only need a 55-200. But seriously, a 2 lens solution is adequate.

Would I be able to get focus at sports events such as football (soccer) and indoor ulitmate frisbee events with it though? I have had real trouble using the 18-55 in those situations and although I dont mind going to manual focus and pre focusing in some occasions, I would like faster autofocus to try and catch more of the action.

I took 100s of pics at the last indoor ultimate tournament I went to, and this was the only pic that i was satisfied with.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hertsjoatmon/5568044889/in/set-72157626373022350

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blue_skies
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Re: A55 + Tamron 18-270mm PZD
In reply to Herts_JoaTMoN, May 25, 2011

Herts_JoaTMoN wrote:

Henry Richardson wrote:

For your uses the A55 would be fine. Get the new Tamron 18-270mm PZD because it has a in-lens focus motor that is quiet and pretty fast. Also owners say it is a bit better optically than the Sony 18-250mm (which doesn't have an in-lens focus motor).

But it is inferior to the SEL18200:
http://www.photozone.de/canon-eos/412-tamron_18270_3563vc_canon?start=1

http://www.photozone.de/sony-alpha-aps-c-lens-tests/539-sony18200f3563nex?start=1

  • also, a bit cutesy

http://www.youtube.com/user/DigitalRevCom#p/search/2/U41Vwd83rus

Agreed. That lens looks great and im moving more and more towards wanting it as I read reviews. I as concerned at first when i read the sony version doesnt have the image stabilisation, but later found out that all the a series has in body stabilation.

My friend has the a55 and i enjoyed playing with it. Going to wait for the a77 to be announced before making a decision on what to get though.

The new 35mm f1.8 would be a good companion since it is fast and also has a good, general purpose fov on APS-C. If you really want a macro then I would suggest something longer than the 30mm so you will have a bit more working space. You might check out the expensive Sony 100mm macro or the Tamron 90mm which is a bit less expensive.

The second lens I would want is a fast wide to normal prime somewhere between 24-30 for indoor work. The widest i could find at a decent price was the 28mm 2.8.

Id then want a portrait lens, which is why i suggested the 50mm 1.4.

and finally a macro.

In that order of prefference.

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blue_skies
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Re: Stuck in 2 minds - just wanted to get my thoughts out...
In reply to Herts_JoaTMoN, May 25, 2011

Herts_JoaTMoN wrote:

Updated lens wish list after a few replies from various places.

1) tamron 18-270mm pzd (£500, only 450g)
2) tamron 17-50mm f2.8 (£340)
3) maybe tamron 90mm f2.8 Macro (£350)
4) sony 50mm f1.8

to 4) --> (£200)?

Plus the aXX body ..(£700+), you are in for (£2,090).

I'd recommend the SEL18200 (£700) and an adapter (£35) to pick up a few legacy lenses (1.4/1.7 prime £35 and 2.8 wide £35). This only sets you back (£805).

You can always add a new NEX body (C3, 7) and one or more of the announced lenses for the (£1,285) that you save.

Or surprise the family with a nice getaway.

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Herts_JoaTMoN
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Re: A55 + Tamron 18-270mm PZD
In reply to blue_skies, May 25, 2011

blue_skies wrote:

Herts_JoaTMoN wrote:

Henry Richardson wrote:

For your uses the A55 would be fine. Get the new Tamron 18-270mm PZD because it has a in-lens focus motor that is quiet and pretty fast. Also owners say it is a bit better optically than the Sony 18-250mm (which doesn't have an in-lens focus motor).

But it is inferior to the SEL18200:
http://www.photozone.de/canon-eos/412-tamron_18270_3563vc_canon?start=1

http://www.photozone.de/sony-alpha-aps-c-lens-tests/539-sony18200f3563nex?start=1

  • also, a bit cutesy

http://www.youtube.com/user/DigitalRevCom#p/search/2/U41Vwd83rus

Your looking at the older version of the lens in the photozone link not the new smaller pzd model

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Herts_JoaTMoN
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Re: Stuck in 2 minds - just wanted to get my thoughts out...
In reply to blue_skies, May 25, 2011

blue_skies wrote:

Herts_JoaTMoN wrote:

Updated lens wish list after a few replies from various places.

1) tamron 18-270mm pzd (£500, only 450g)
2) tamron 17-50mm f2.8 (£340)
3) maybe tamron 90mm f2.8 Macro (£350)
4) sony 50mm f1.8

to 4) --> (£200)?

Plus the aXX body ..(£700+), you are in for (£2,090).

I'd recommend the SEL18200 (£700) and an adapter (£35) to pick up a few legacy lenses (1.4/1.7 prime £35 and 2.8 wide £35). This only sets you back (£805).

You can always add a new NEX body (C3, 7) and one or more of the announced lenses for the (£1,285) that you save.

Or surprise the family with a nice getaway.

will any of these options allow me to focus faster on action?

If you can convince me that the nex plus e mount 18-200 will focus as fast as a a55 plus the 18-270 pzd then that would sway my decision. I have a strong feeling that it wont be very close though

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blue_skies
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Re: Stuck in 2 minds - just wanted to get my thoughts out...
In reply to Herts_JoaTMoN, May 25, 2011

Herts_JoaTMoN wrote:

blue_skies wrote:

Herts_JoaTMoN wrote:

Updated lens wish list after a few replies from various places.

1) tamron 18-270mm pzd (£500, only 450g)
2) tamron 17-50mm f2.8 (£340)
3) maybe tamron 90mm f2.8 Macro (£350)
4) sony 50mm f1.8

to 4) --> (£200)?

Plus the aXX body ..(£700+), you are in for (£2,090).

I'd recommend the SEL18200 (£700) and an adapter (£35) to pick up a few legacy lenses (1.4/1.7 prime £35 and 2.8 wide £35). This only sets you back (£805).

You can always add a new NEX body (C3, 7) and one or more of the announced lenses for the (£1,285) that you save.

Or surprise the family with a nice getaway.

will any of these options allow me to focus faster on action?

I am sure that the getaway will

No, the NEX, with CDAF, is not a fast action shooting camera, unless you prefocus (MF mode) or use wider angle lenses. The SEL18200, because of its longer range, can drain batteries faster (constant focus on), or take time to find focus (more steps). It is still very decent, may 0.5sec or so. (and use burst mode, you can 'follow' the action).

For kids' soccer, I do not think that CDAF will be a problem.

But if you want almost instant (less than 0.1sec) focusing, quick point and shoot type behavior, the aXX with PDAF will be much more appreciated.

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