Another way to think about it (SD1 & Pricing)

Started May 20, 2011 | Discussions
brittonx
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Another way to think about it (SD1 & Pricing)
May 20, 2011

Let's assume for a minute that the SD1 can truly deliver medium-format level image quality. What then do you get for the price compared to other medium-format cameras?

  • Way faster FPS

  • Much lighter body

  • Much smaller body

  • Smaller and lighter lenses

  • Better ISO range

What would you prefer carry around for landscape work, A large and heavy MF camera or the small and light SD1?

This could be a new market segment. True MF image quality in a small and lightweight package. What is that worth?

I will be interested to see is Sigma comes out with something in-between the SD15 and the SD1 for the larger Sigma user base.
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carlos roncatti
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Re: Another way to think about it (SD1 & Pricing)
In reply to brittonx, May 20, 2011

I think its impossible to tell without the camera being used yet, but for this new market segment, they would need to have pretty excellent lense that would make the system justice. Its not the case right now.

brittonx wrote:

Let's assume for a minute that the SD1 can truly deliver medium-format level image quality. What then do you get for the price compared to other medium-format cameras?

  • Way faster FPS

  • Much lighter body

  • Much smaller body

  • Smaller and lighter lenses

  • Better ISO range

What would you prefer carry around for landscape work, A large and heavy MF camera or the small and light SD1?

This could be a new market segment. True MF image quality in a small and lightweight package. What is that worth?

I will be interested to see is Sigma comes out with something in-between the SD15 and the SD1 for the larger Sigma user base.
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applemax
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Re: Another way to think about it (SD1 & Pricing)
In reply to brittonx, May 20, 2011

Hi!

What would you prefer carry around for landscape work, A large and heavy MF camera or the small and light SD1?

A Hasselblad H4D-31 medium format DSLR with similar pixel count (and price!) weighs 2250g with 2.8/80mm lens (already included in the price...). The SD1 without lens weighs arond 700g, so with a comparable lens, you end up very close to the Hasselblad. But it has about one half more volume than the Sigma.

As a Sigma user for over five years, I would rather take the Hasselblad if I had to chose. Sorry Sigma.

Regards
Max

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shigzeo ?
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Re: Another way to think about it (SD1 & Pricing)
In reply to carlos roncatti, May 20, 2011

Medium Format benefits from the medium format sensor: a sensor that captures a LOT of light and uses large pixels. Hell, my D200 is more pixel dense than every production medium format camera in the world right now. If it had a 45 megapixel sensor in its APS-C chassis, it might deliver great resolution, but not the sensitivity that the medium format can.

Plus, lenses on medium format do not have to be as tightly made as 35mm lenses do. They sufficiently perform well on low-res-per-mm sensors that capture loads of light. Sigma are not talking about the same thing. Resolution (effective or not) isn't the only issue: it's light absorption.

Sigma have not covered that angle at all.
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maple
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Re: Another way to think about it (SD1 & Pricing)
In reply to brittonx, May 20, 2011

Nothing new. That's Sigma's pipe dream.

But then why indicated price to compete with 7D in the first place? At least let someone less official to release the smoke.

Sigma has let down most (if not almost all) of their loyal customers, which are already few and far between. Perhaps that's exactly why it doesn't matter.

I suspect that even Sigma does not believe in this MF pricing crab. They just have no choice for reasons we can't possibly know. We could only guess at something like extremely low fab yield rate.
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headofdestiny
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Re: Another way to think about it (SD1 & Pricing)
In reply to brittonx, May 20, 2011

It's hard to imagine the Sigma being priced at 5x another so-called medium format killer: the Sony A850.

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Kwick1
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Re: Another way to think about it (SD1 & Pricing)
In reply to brittonx, May 20, 2011

True MF quality has already been achieved in a small, lighweight package. It's called the Leica M9 and it's less expensive than the Sigma.

That's not hyperbole - check out the results comparing the M9 to medium format:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/2010_mini_medium_format_shoot_out.shtml
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carlos roncatti
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Re: Another way to think about it (SD1 & Pricing)
In reply to Kwick1, May 20, 2011

Kwick1 wrote:

True MF quality has already been achieved in a small, lighweight package. It's called the Leica M9 and it's less expensive than the Sigma.

and it has outstanding lenses available....

That's not hyperbole - check out the results comparing the M9 to medium format:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/2010_mini_medium_format_shoot_out.shtml
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Scott Greiff
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Re: Another way to think about it (SD1 & Pricing)
In reply to brittonx, May 20, 2011

I don't think commercial / landscape photographers mind the weight. The usually put the camera on legs anyhow.

Another thing missing from the SD1 is the 16 bits per pixel typical of medium-format sensors.

brittonx wrote:

Let's assume for a minute that the SD1 can truly deliver medium-format level image quality. What then do you get for the price compared to other medium-format cameras?

  • Way faster FPS

  • Much lighter body

  • Much smaller body

  • Smaller and lighter lenses

  • Better ISO range

What would you prefer carry around for landscape work, A large and heavy MF camera or the small and light SD1?

This could be a new market segment. True MF image quality in a small and lightweight package. What is that worth?

I will be interested to see is Sigma comes out with something in-between the SD15 and the SD1 for the larger Sigma user base.
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Peter A. Stavrakoglou
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Re: Another way to think about it (SD1 & Pricing)
In reply to brittonx, May 20, 2011

IIRC, Laurence responded in a thread that the SD1 is not intended to compete with MF.
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chekist
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Re: Another way to think about it (SD1 & Pricing)
In reply to brittonx, May 20, 2011

I have to say, price point came as a surprise for me. I actually was thinking about it, if it was priced at $2000-$3000 range. But this is clearly a different class, which I am not sure Sigma is prepared to compete in.

Standards for MF cameras are very high. I am not sure Nikon and Canon optics would meet those standards. There is no current set of optics that Sigma makes that meets them. Dynamic range and color reproduction are very good as well. It is hard to imagine that Sigma can quickly close that gap.

Medium format is not a new market we have other players, such as Leica S2, trying to offer a compact cameras with high resolution. There are also DSLRs that are offering 24MP and excellent options for optics. If you ask me, I would rather have a D3X for $8,000 than Sigma for $10,000.

But I guess proof is in the pudding - lets see the images and reviews when the camera is finally out. So far the couple that I saw looked good, but this was far from comprehensive testing.
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Alfred123
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Re: Another way to think about it (SD1 & Pricing)
In reply to brittonx, May 20, 2011

brittonx wrote:

I will be interested to see is Sigma comes out with something in-between the SD15 and the SD1 for the larger Sigma user base.

I agree, there's a big gulf between SD15 and SD1 price. I immediately start thinking there might be an SD15 upgrade in the future since they are aiming the SD1 at a different market.

Yet another way to look at it: it was probably a good savings incentive.

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alexzn
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Re: Another way to think about it (SD1 & Pricing)
In reply to Alfred123, May 20, 2011

Sigma NEVER ever delivered on all their promises. Their cameras have always been quirky and visibly behind the technology curve in the very basics features of ergonomics, performance, and imaging pipeline, and to compensate for that they always competed on price. It will take a major miracle to have them release a camera that would deliver ergonomics of the best 35 mm bodies, and IQ of medium format. And there is always the lack of top-quality lenses, avaialbility of rentals and robust used market, all of which support the pricing structure of a major brand such as Canon, Nikon and Leica. Unless the new sensor is truly, truly phenomenal, they just shot themselves out of the game. And no one talked about lack of good high ISO capabilities in a Foveon, did they solve this issue for the new sensor. Sigma is really a big fat joke of the camera world.

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ogl
ogl
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Re: Another way to think about it (SD1 & Pricing)
In reply to alexzn, May 20, 2011

Don't forget - Canon and Nikon will launch new FF cameras this year. Pentax can easy put two PRIME II and 60 MP sensor and offer 645D-II.

Sony will show new APS-C high-end camera A77 and new FF body.
Samsung made new 18 MP super-pooper APS-C sensor with 4K video.

Leica has plans to launch M10 with new CCD sensor next year.

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