Quo Vadis Nex?

Started May 16, 2011 | Discussions
Just Having Fun
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Re: Quo Vadis Nex?
In reply to blue_skies, May 17, 2011

blue_skies wrote:

As to the difference in Nex and Panny zoom: 18-55 versus 14-42 differs by only 1cm in length, folded less than 5mm. The longer zoom: 18-200 vs. 14-140 differ by 6cm in focal length. This could yield a difference of 3cm in folded length. (eg. 10cm vs. 7cm). This makes a big difference, this is what you notice.

Don't forget the diameters too. That is where sizes can realy differ, and that is what will affect weight.

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KM Legacy
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Re: Quo Vadis Nex?
In reply to gfrensen, May 17, 2011

You have to keep in mind that the NEX system does not consist only of the NEX 3/5 still cameras. The same lenses are also designed to serve the NEX-10 video camera, which is not compact and certainly not pocketable. Sony being a video-oriented company, they may be more interested in the NEX-10 part of the system.

Another thing is that rangefinder lenses can be very small, esp. in diameter, because they do not have auto-diaphragm mechanisms like SLR lenses, nor do they have autofocus (except for the late Contax G) or image stabilization mechanisms.

I think the E-mount is ultimately going to replace the A-mount SLRs and SLTs. Most people who buy SLRs don't seem terribly concerned about pocketability, and long or fast lenses for APS-C or larger formats are always going to be large.

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Henry Richardson
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Re: Voigtlander Ultron 40mm f2 for FF
In reply to blue_skies, May 17, 2011

blue_skies wrote:

that lens is for an SLR mount, ie. it will take a full size adapter (ie. add 25+mm or so). It is 'pancake' for SLR, but it is similar in size to the SEL1855 when mounted on the NEX.

You missed the point. The point is that a fast, small pancake can be made and, in fact, exists and the Voigtlander is even for FF. Some have said that they are not possible and that is why Sony doesn't make any. Also, check out the Samsung 30mm f2:

http://www.photozone.de/pentax/534-samsung30f2

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franzel
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Re: Voigtlander Ultron 40mm f2 for FF
In reply to Henry Richardson, May 17, 2011

Henry Richardson wrote:

You missed the point. The point is that a fast, small pancake can be made and, in fact, exists and the Voigtlander is even for FF. Some have said that they are not possible and that is why Sony doesn't make any. Also, check out the Samsung 30mm f2:

Pancake lenses are usually not very fast, the negative lens elements are hard to adjust, but Sony sure could make them.

However, a camera as slim as the Nex is a lot harder to work with when you design lenses, due to the short flange distance; a 40mm pancake for a DSLR is fairly easy to make - yet that Voigtlander 40mm isn't a very small lens, either .

The trouble is that noone knows where Sony is going with the Nex line; I assume we'll have to wait for the Nex-7 announcement , the Nex-3C is really confusing things for me .

Right now, Sony seems to have it's releases backwards, apart from the (rumored) 1.7/24 .

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Henry Richardson
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Next 7 NEX lenses
In reply to franzel, May 18, 2011

franzel wrote:

The trouble is that noone knows where Sony is going with the Nex line; I assume we'll have to wait for the Nex-7 announcement , the Nex-3C is really confusing things for me .

Here you can see the next 7 NEX lenses

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/poll-are-you-missing-the-compact-pancakes-on-the-sony-nex-lens-roadmap/

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Dennis
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Re: Quo Vadis Nex?
In reply to Michael Kaminski, May 18, 2011

Michael Kaminski wrote:

That's the question. Is that really so? Are these new lenses just normal lens designs for cameras with mirrorbox?

I think you're asking if these are retooled versions of lenses designed for a longer registration distance, the answer is almost certainly no in the case of Sony; no idea on any 3rd party lenses). The R1's lens looked short, but front to back the camera was pretty long. Meanwhile, a couple of points ...

While the 18-200 looks big in pictures, relative to the body, it's roughly the size of the KM or Tamron 28-75/2.8; not a huge lens.

The mockups look smaller, making them look like not-terribly big lenses, depending on your tolerance and your needs and the actual specs.

We have no idea what they'll look like when they come to market; mockups are mockups.

A given lens is going to be so long unless they get creative with folded optics or something ... You should hope for a 16-80 that isn't as big as the Alpha 16-80 plus an inch long adapter ... but it's also not going to be that much shorter than a 16-80 (it could collapse like the Oly kit zoom).

Is it really not possible to make smaller high quality zoom lenses for mirrorless cameras?

Smaller than what ? There's nothing to complain about yet. Mockups of unknown specs that may or may not be accurate.

I'm not talking about pancakelenses. It's about highquality zooms. The R1 had a 24-120mm lens with aperture 2,8-4,8 for an APS-C sensor. And the dimensions were 139mmx168mmx97mm. So for what it delivered it had a quite small lens. (By the way it sold with the Zeiss lens for 950.-€)!

Here's the NEX versus F717:

If it competes in prize with an DSLR and is of nearly the same size, where's the advantage of the NEX?

Good question. I bought it to use with small lenses, not to replace my DSLR

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Dennis
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Re: Voigtlander Ultron 40mm f2 for FF
In reply to Henry Richardson, May 18, 2011

Henry Richardson wrote:

You missed the point. The point is that a fast, small pancake can be made and, in fact, exists and the Voigtlander is even for FF. Some have said that they are not possible and that is why Sony doesn't make any. Also, check out the Samsung 30mm f2:

Henry, it's easier to design a pancake lens when you've already got lots of room due to a longer registration distance. It's easier to get 50mm from the sensor in a thin lens when the lens mount is 40mm away; a 50mm for NEX can't get too small. You'd never see a 70mm pancake like the Pentax. (Put that on an inch deep adapter and that's probably as good as it gets). I really hope for a 30mm pancake in the future, but honestly, at this point, that's about the only pancake lens in addition to the 16 that I'd hope for.

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Dennis
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Re: Quo Vadis Nex?
In reply to blue_skies, May 18, 2011

Thanks a lot for posting this - I was particularly interested in your shot of the NEX with the 35/1.4. I'd been looking at that lens on cameraquest thinking it's awfully compact (plus adapter naturally), very fast, and the FL isn't bad (I'd prefer 28).

But seeing it on your NEX, it's not enough of what I'm looking for ... maybe the 24/1.7 will be more to my liking. Price will probably be similar (by the time you buy the 35 and a $60 shade plus an adapter). I was hoping it would be the pancake I'm looking for.

Of course the other thing to consider is the design of the NEX which makes lenses look long relative to he thin body.

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Michael Kaminski
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Re: Quo Vadis Nex?
In reply to Dennis, May 18, 2011

Thanks for the precise answer.

As far as rumors go, the new standard "highqialityzoom" shall arrive in 2012. So if the NEX-7 arrives in 2011 there will be no zoom that will give good imagequality. The current 18-55 zoom is already at it's limits with the current NEX-5.

So NEX is a hold-file for 2012 and then possibly too big and too exotic to fill the small camera niche.
Thanks
Michael

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Michael Kaminski
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Re: Quo Vadis Nex?
In reply to Michael Kaminski, May 18, 2011

? Are there any Sony G lenses that are not Full frame ?

Could the new E-Mount G High Quality Standard Zoom be a Full Frame lens and therefore such a big lens ?
Greets
Michael

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Dennis
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Re: Quo Vadis Nex?
In reply to Michael Kaminski, May 18, 2011

Michael Kaminski wrote:

Thanks for the precise answer.

As far as rumors go, the new standard "highqialityzoom" shall arrive in 2012. So if the NEX-7 arrives in 2011 there will be no zoom that will give good imagequality. The current 18-55 zoom is already at it's limits with the current NEX-5.

The 18-55 is underrated, but I know what you mean; I wouldn't buy an expensive camera, certainly not a 24MP (rumored) camera, unless I could get the lenses I wanted for it. At one time, I toyed with the idea of a NEX-7 type camera with lenses to replace a lot of my DSLR shooting, using the DSLR only for sports/wildlife, but as time goes on, I see myself sticking with a compact NEX and 1-2 small lenses, and using the DSLR whenever I don't mind the bigger camera.

So NEX is a hold-file for 2012 and then possibly too big and too exotic to fill the small camera niche.

If Nikon ever delivers something like the system that's been rumored, it might be a good option, as it's supposedly based on a sensor that's even slightly smaller than m43.

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Dennis
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Re: Quo Vadis Nex?
In reply to Michael Kaminski, May 18, 2011

Michael Kaminski wrote:

? Are there any Sony G lenses that are not Full frame ?

Not yet. We don't know how they'll label the new rumored "kit" lens that's supposed to be out with the rumored A77. Though I think they use the G label on some digicam lenses.

Could the new E-Mount G High Quality Standard Zoom be a Full Frame lens and therefore such a big lens ?

I doubt it. If it's 'standard' for APS-C, it's probably going to go wide enough (16 or 17mm) to be impractical on FF. And it's much too early to say it's overly big given that it's only a mockup, and we don't know the specs.

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gfrensen
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Re: Quo Vadis Nex?
In reply to Michael Kaminski, May 18, 2011

Michael Kaminski wrote:

Also note the prototype of the Sigma (what was it 30mm) lens for NEX. Here also the lens is longer than it's counterpart for SLRs. Which brings me to the conclusion, that these lenses are not designed for Mirrorless cameras, but just adaptations from SLR lenses, with a built in adaptor and distance ring to fit them to a NEX.

I can think why they make the lensesw "adapted" SLR lenses (it is cheaper to develop) But I don't llike it to much. I do hope the brands will come with some reeal E-mount lenses too, but it will take time to develop I think.

Sorry, no offence, but I wonder if the System is not to be meant to be a serious try.

No offence taken, I think the Nex camera was introduced, but the lens lineup was to much in development. I think the Nex range will be de successor of the mirror cameras. So the Nex (and other mirrorless) are the future and the mirror cameras will slowly dissapear.. But it will take time.

Greets
Michael

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Just Having Fun
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Re: Quo Vadis Nex?
In reply to gfrensen, May 18, 2011

gfrensen wrote:

I can think why they make the lensesw "adapted" SLR lenses (it is cheaper to develop) But I don't llike it to much. I do hope the brands will come with some reeal E-mount lenses too, but it will take time to develop I think.

I think they will make a newer lens design that they can put an m43 mount and and E mount on. This will really increase their target market.
The old sigma lenses for fourthirds were all just APS or FF lenses.

I am not sure if they will conside something that will work with Samsung or the new Nikon too.

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gfrensen
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Re: Quo Vadis Nex?
In reply to Just Having Fun, May 18, 2011

Just Having Fun wrote:

gfrensen wrote:

I can think why they make the lensesw "adapted" SLR lenses (it is cheaper to develop) But I don't llike it to much. I do hope the brands will come with some reeal E-mount lenses too, but it will take time to develop I think.

I think they will make a newer lens design that they can put an m43 mount and and E mount on. This will really increase their target market.
The old sigma lenses for fourthirds were all just APS or FF lenses.

I hope you're right about the m43/Emount lenses, it would be great to have some good and cheap sigma lenses for E-mount,

I am not sure if they will conside something that will work with Samsung or the new Nikon too.

I think it will all depend on the popularity of those cameras, but I think Samsung is loosing and Nikon? Well who knows?

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