2 bad lens from B&H, what is the odd

Started Apr 21, 2011 | Discussions
viclauyyc
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2 bad lens from B&H, what is the odd
Apr 21, 2011

Sigh. I just order a Tokina 100mm for my D3. First one has problem with the aperture, sometime it show the max aperture as 2.8, most other time is 5.6 or 3.2 or something in between. So I send it back to BH for exchange. The second copy behave the same.

I test my D3 with other older lens with aperture ring. All works fine. Then I test the tokina with my good old D70, the very same thing happen........

So is it me have bad luck or Tokina has bad QC.

PS. the serial number for both tokina is different. so they did not just send back the bad lens

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Vic Lau at Calgary

madecov
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Re: 2 bad lens from B&H, what is the odd
In reply to viclauyyc, Apr 21, 2011

Actually, That is normal on a macro. My Tokina 35mm f/2.8 behaves the same.

It's not defective. It is showing the actual effective aperture as the lens focus's closer
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viclauyyc
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Re: 2 bad lens from B&H, what is the odd
In reply to madecov, Apr 21, 2011

Yes, the aperture do change when I change the focus. But the max. aperture never get bigger than 3.2. And the lens should be a 2.8 lens.

Also, I test my Sigma 150/2.8 micro. The max aperture do not change. So i guess it is either a Tokina thing or it is just a bad copy.

I will call tokina see what they say tomorrow

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Vic Lau at Calgary

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Holmes375
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Re: 2 bad lens from B&H, what is the odd
In reply to viclauyyc, Apr 21, 2011

Actually your Sigma 150 will indeed change the maximum aperture at close distance. I've been using the lens for years and it functions just like most true macro lenses do.

Nothing wrong with the Tokina if its changing the max aperture at close range.
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Petri_H
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Re: 2 bad lens from B&H, what is the odd
In reply to viclauyyc, Apr 21, 2011

No. it is not just a Tokina thing:

Photozone.de on Micro Nikkor AF-S DX 85mm f/3.5:

"Typical for most macro lenses, the effective aperture decreases towards the minimum focus distance. The lens reports this corrected value to the camera."

Actually your Sigma might be the "defective" one, again Photozone.de on Sigma AF 150mm f/2.8 APO EX HSM macro:

"Regarding its IF (internal focusing) design the Sigma should loose about 1.5 f-stops at its most extreme macro setting but unlike the Micro-Nikkors the effective max. aperture is not adjusted (update: the latest generation does). "

viclauyyc wrote:

Yes, the aperture do change when I change the focus. But the max. aperture never get bigger than 3.2. And the lens should be a 2.8 lens.

Also, I test my Sigma 150/2.8 micro. The max aperture do not change. So i guess it is either a Tokina thing or it is just a bad copy.

I will call tokina see what they say tomorrow

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Vic Lau at Calgary

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Emeraldforest
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Re: 2 bad lens from B&H, what is the odd
In reply to Petri_H, Apr 21, 2011

There was nothing wrong with your lens. My Tamron 90mm 2.8 macro is the same way. When I first got it, I was all pissy about the fact that it would go to 2.8 during certain situations. But I found out that it normal for macro lens when you are close focusing. I think it is called the 'effective aperture'. Point your lens to infinity and open up the aperture and it should go to 2.8. But if you are 'close focusing' the 'effective' aperture is what the camera dispays.

Anyhow, I thought I would share that with you, because i thought the same thing at first. I am glad that I did not send it back. I am surprised that they did not explain that to you when you arranged the return.

Anyhow, good luck with that. Google 'effective aperture' and it will help answer some of your questions and frustrations
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Leonard Shepherd
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Re: the chances are nil
In reply to viclauyyc, Apr 21, 2011

If you do not understand the complexities of some aspects of photography I am sure B&H have a help desk for recent purchasers, or you can post an query on a forum before saying your good lenses are defective.

As an owner of the Nikon 60mm D, 60mm G, 105 macro and 200 macro I can confirm Nikon macro lenses work in a similar way.
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ianz28
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Re: the chances are nil
In reply to Leonard Shepherd, Apr 21, 2011

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

If you do not understand the complexities of some aspects of photography I am sure B&H have a help desk for recent purchasers, or you can post an query on a forum before saying your good lenses are defective.

As an owner of the Nikon 60mm D, 60mm G, 105 macro and 200 macro I can confirm Nikon macro lenses work in a similar way.

Confirmed and agreed.

Nikon shows the "effective" aperture of any given macro lens no matter the manufacturer. If focused closer than infinity there is a high likelihood that your f2.8 lens will show f3.2 or even f5.6 as the maximum aperture. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the lens!

Furthermore you really should have understood the characteristics or at least researched the characteristics of "THE" lens - or - even "ALL" macro lenses before sending the lens back as defective.

You are not the first to question the changing aperture on Nikon bodies.

In response to the changing aperture perhaps you would be curious to know why exactly it is that the aperture changes.

It is really quite simple: As the lens focuses closer there is a reduction in the amount of light that is gathered by the lens. Essentially modern macro lenses act as if there is a teleconverter attached. The reason they behave this way is because they actually extend while focussing. In other words they achieve the effective magnification by extending the distance between the focal groups - it is essentially the same thing that happens when you use an extension tube or a tele-converter.

The closer the lens focuses the lower the amount of light there is that is reaching the sensor. While some brands choose to ignore the "true" aperture of macro lenses Nikon chooses to show this "effective" aperture on the camera.

There is nothing wrong with any of your macro lenses when this occurs. If anything you should thank Nikon for maintaining accuracy in the metering metrics of photography.

After all if you want to take the next step and calculate exposures with flash based on aperture for macro shooting you will get the correct exposures with Nikon.

ian

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madecov
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Re: 2 bad lens from B&H, what is the odd
In reply to viclauyyc, Apr 21, 2011

viclauyyc wrote:

Yes, the aperture do change when I change the focus. But the max. aperture never get bigger than 3.2. And the lens should be a 2.8 lens.

Also, I test my Sigma 150/2.8 micro. The max aperture do not change. So i guess it is either a Tokina thing or it is just a bad copy.

I will call tokina see what they say tomorrow

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Vic Lau at Calgary

Make sure you are checking the lens maximum aperture when the lens is at infinity. At any other focus distance it may not be showing maximum.
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henryp
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Re: No bad lens from B&H, what is the odd
In reply to viclauyyc, Apr 21, 2011

viclauyyc wrote:

Sigh. I just order a Tokina 100mm for my D3. First one has problem with the aperture, sometime it show the max aperture as 2.8, most other time is 5.6 or 3.2 or something in between. So I send it back to BH for exchange. The second copy behave the same.

I'm sorry for any inconvenience you experienced but as others here have explained, neither of your lenses was defective. So, your first lens came back to us with a report it was bad when it apparently was not. What should an ethical retailer do with this item?

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Les Kamens
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Re: 2 bad lens from B&H, what is the odd
In reply to viclauyyc, Apr 21, 2011

Just another reason to use system lenses... You spent 5000 plus on the body and the most important part the "eye" lens is where you decide to save money???? as i've mentioned before it cost you more in the long run, in repairs or sending it back for a working one or living with what you have till you can't any more. And then there is the resale value of a non system lens if it is still working properly.

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sting
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non-NIkon lenses
In reply to Les Kamens, Apr 21, 2011

Les Kamens wrote:

Just another reason to use system lenses... You spent 5000 plus on the body and the most important part the "eye" lens is where you decide to save money????

There are a number of non-Nikon lenses that exceed Nikon offerings.

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Holmes375
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Re: 2 bad lens from B&H, what is the odd
In reply to Les Kamens, Apr 21, 2011

Les Kamens wrote:

Just another reason to use system lenses... You spent 5000 plus on the body and the most important part the "eye" lens is where you decide to save money???? as i've mentioned before it cost you more in the long run, in repairs or sending it back for a working one or living with what you have till you can't any more. And then there is the resale value of a non system lens if it is still working properly.

Oh, come now. This is not a system or brand issue. Its not an issue at all, simply the OP's lack of understanding of how macro lenses function.

I love and prefer Nikkor glass but I won't hesitate to acquire a third party lens if it offers something Nikon does not.

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Mikael in DK
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Re: 2 bad lens from B&H, what is the odd
In reply to Petri_H, Apr 21, 2011

Bookmarked!

I learned something new today - thanks.

Kind regards,

Mikael

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larrywilson
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Re: 2 bad lens from B&H, what is the odd
In reply to Holmes375, Apr 21, 2011

I have several lens not Nikon made. The Zeiss's I have and the Tamron 90mm macro do just fine on my d3s. I think for me it is the output that manners, not so much a brand name.

Larry - smile

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Cope
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Re: 2 bad lens from B&H, what is the odd
In reply to viclauyyc, Apr 21, 2011

It's a shame you didn't ask before sending the first one back. I noticed this with my first macro lens, but I asked on a couple of forums. Now B&H is out postage and a second lens, plus the cost of sending the first one back to Nikon.
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Windancer
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Re: No bad lens from B&H, what is the odd
In reply to henryp, Apr 21, 2011

henryp wrote:

What should an ethical retailer do with this item?

Henry

I am really curious what answers you get on this one.........

Terry
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viclauyyc
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thanks everyone. I was wrong
In reply to viclauyyc, Apr 21, 2011

thanks everyone.

Guess I should ask in forum first next time.

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Vic Lau at Calgary

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larrywilson
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Re: question was good
In reply to viclauyyc, Apr 21, 2011

The question is not a bad question concerning max. f stop at various distances. It took me some study on various websites to find out the answer when I was hunting for a micro lens. Keep on coming back.

Larry

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gtblackwell
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B&H is as ethical as they come.
In reply to larrywilson, Apr 21, 2011

I have no idea of how they handle such situations but I trust them to do the right thing. If I bought a new lens from them and they sent me the returned lens I would be fine with it. I feel sure they check out all returned lenses. Certainly all dealers have not earned this reputation.

GB
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