2 bad lens from B&H, what is the odd

Started Apr 21, 2011 | Discussions
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viclauyyc
viclauyyc Regular Member • Posts: 286
2 bad lens from B&H, what is the odd

Sigh. I just order a Tokina 100mm for my D3. First one has problem with the aperture, sometime it show the max aperture as 2.8, most other time is 5.6 or 3.2 or something in between. So I send it back to BH for exchange. The second copy behave the same.

I test my D3 with other older lens with aperture ring. All works fine. Then I test the tokina with my good old D70, the very same thing happen........

So is it me have bad luck or Tokina has bad QC.

PS. the serial number for both tokina is different. so they did not just send back the bad lens

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Vic Lau at Calgary

madecov
madecov Veteran Member • Posts: 3,165
Re: 2 bad lens from B&H, what is the odd

Actually, That is normal on a macro. My Tokina 35mm f/2.8 behaves the same.

It's not defective. It is showing the actual effective aperture as the lens focus's closer
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viclauyyc
viclauyyc OP Regular Member • Posts: 286
Re: 2 bad lens from B&H, what is the odd

Yes, the aperture do change when I change the focus. But the max. aperture never get bigger than 3.2. And the lens should be a 2.8 lens.

Also, I test my Sigma 150/2.8 micro. The max aperture do not change. So i guess it is either a Tokina thing or it is just a bad copy.

I will call tokina see what they say tomorrow

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Vic Lau at Calgary

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Holmes375
Holmes375 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,790
Re: 2 bad lens from B&H, what is the odd

Actually your Sigma 150 will indeed change the maximum aperture at close distance. I've been using the lens for years and it functions just like most true macro lenses do.

Nothing wrong with the Tokina if its changing the max aperture at close range.
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Petri_H
Petri_H Junior Member • Posts: 47
Re: 2 bad lens from B&H, what is the odd

No. it is not just a Tokina thing:

Photozone.de on Micro Nikkor AF-S DX 85mm f/3.5:

"Typical for most macro lenses, the effective aperture decreases towards the minimum focus distance. The lens reports this corrected value to the camera."

Actually your Sigma might be the "defective" one, again Photozone.de on Sigma AF 150mm f/2.8 APO EX HSM macro:

"Regarding its IF (internal focusing) design the Sigma should loose about 1.5 f-stops at its most extreme macro setting but unlike the Micro-Nikkors the effective max. aperture is not adjusted (update: the latest generation does). "

viclauyyc wrote:

Yes, the aperture do change when I change the focus. But the max. aperture never get bigger than 3.2. And the lens should be a 2.8 lens.

Also, I test my Sigma 150/2.8 micro. The max aperture do not change. So i guess it is either a Tokina thing or it is just a bad copy.

I will call tokina see what they say tomorrow

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Vic Lau at Calgary

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Emeraldforest
Emeraldforest Regular Member • Posts: 265
Re: 2 bad lens from B&H, what is the odd

There was nothing wrong with your lens. My Tamron 90mm 2.8 macro is the same way. When I first got it, I was all pissy about the fact that it would go to 2.8 during certain situations. But I found out that it normal for macro lens when you are close focusing. I think it is called the 'effective aperture'. Point your lens to infinity and open up the aperture and it should go to 2.8. But if you are 'close focusing' the 'effective' aperture is what the camera dispays.

Anyhow, I thought I would share that with you, because i thought the same thing at first. I am glad that I did not send it back. I am surprised that they did not explain that to you when you arranged the return.

Anyhow, good luck with that. Google 'effective aperture' and it will help answer some of your questions and frustrations
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Leonard Shepherd
Leonard Shepherd Forum Pro • Posts: 10,446
Re: the chances are nil

If you do not understand the complexities of some aspects of photography I am sure B&H have a help desk for recent purchasers, or you can post an query on a forum before saying your good lenses are defective.

As an owner of the Nikon 60mm D, 60mm G, 105 macro and 200 macro I can confirm Nikon macro lenses work in a similar way.
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ianz28
ianz28 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,379
Re: the chances are nil

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

If you do not understand the complexities of some aspects of photography I am sure B&H have a help desk for recent purchasers, or you can post an query on a forum before saying your good lenses are defective.

As an owner of the Nikon 60mm D, 60mm G, 105 macro and 200 macro I can confirm Nikon macro lenses work in a similar way.

Confirmed and agreed.

Nikon shows the "effective" aperture of any given macro lens no matter the manufacturer. If focused closer than infinity there is a high likelihood that your f2.8 lens will show f3.2 or even f5.6 as the maximum aperture. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the lens!

Furthermore you really should have understood the characteristics or at least researched the characteristics of "THE" lens - or - even "ALL" macro lenses before sending the lens back as defective.

You are not the first to question the changing aperture on Nikon bodies.

In response to the changing aperture perhaps you would be curious to know why exactly it is that the aperture changes.

It is really quite simple: As the lens focuses closer there is a reduction in the amount of light that is gathered by the lens. Essentially modern macro lenses act as if there is a teleconverter attached. The reason they behave this way is because they actually extend while focussing. In other words they achieve the effective magnification by extending the distance between the focal groups - it is essentially the same thing that happens when you use an extension tube or a tele-converter.

The closer the lens focuses the lower the amount of light there is that is reaching the sensor. While some brands choose to ignore the "true" aperture of macro lenses Nikon chooses to show this "effective" aperture on the camera.

There is nothing wrong with any of your macro lenses when this occurs. If anything you should thank Nikon for maintaining accuracy in the metering metrics of photography.

After all if you want to take the next step and calculate exposures with flash based on aperture for macro shooting you will get the correct exposures with Nikon.

ian

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madecov
madecov Veteran Member • Posts: 3,165
Re: 2 bad lens from B&H, what is the odd

viclauyyc wrote:

Yes, the aperture do change when I change the focus. But the max. aperture never get bigger than 3.2. And the lens should be a 2.8 lens.

Also, I test my Sigma 150/2.8 micro. The max aperture do not change. So i guess it is either a Tokina thing or it is just a bad copy.

I will call tokina see what they say tomorrow

-- hide signature --

Vic Lau at Calgary

Make sure you are checking the lens maximum aperture when the lens is at infinity. At any other focus distance it may not be showing maximum.
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henryp
henryp Veteran Member • Posts: 5,619
Re: No bad lens from B&H, what is the odd

viclauyyc wrote:

Sigh. I just order a Tokina 100mm for my D3. First one has problem with the aperture, sometime it show the max aperture as 2.8, most other time is 5.6 or 3.2 or something in between. So I send it back to BH for exchange. The second copy behave the same.

I'm sorry for any inconvenience you experienced but as others here have explained, neither of your lenses was defective. So, your first lens came back to us with a report it was bad when it apparently was not. What should an ethical retailer do with this item?

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Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video

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Les Kamens
Les Kamens Regular Member • Posts: 283
Re: 2 bad lens from B&H, what is the odd

Just another reason to use system lenses... You spent 5000 plus on the body and the most important part the "eye" lens is where you decide to save money???? as i've mentioned before it cost you more in the long run, in repairs or sending it back for a working one or living with what you have till you can't any more. And then there is the resale value of a non system lens if it is still working properly.

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sting
sting Veteran Member • Posts: 4,970
non-NIkon lenses

Les Kamens wrote:

Just another reason to use system lenses... You spent 5000 plus on the body and the most important part the "eye" lens is where you decide to save money????

There are a number of non-Nikon lenses that exceed Nikon offerings.

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Holmes375
Holmes375 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,790
Re: 2 bad lens from B&H, what is the odd

Les Kamens wrote:

Just another reason to use system lenses... You spent 5000 plus on the body and the most important part the "eye" lens is where you decide to save money???? as i've mentioned before it cost you more in the long run, in repairs or sending it back for a working one or living with what you have till you can't any more. And then there is the resale value of a non system lens if it is still working properly.

Oh, come now. This is not a system or brand issue. Its not an issue at all, simply the OP's lack of understanding of how macro lenses function.

I love and prefer Nikkor glass but I won't hesitate to acquire a third party lens if it offers something Nikon does not.

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Mikael in DK
Mikael in DK Junior Member • Posts: 45
Re: 2 bad lens from B&H, what is the odd

Bookmarked!

I learned something new today - thanks.

Kind regards,

Mikael

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larrywilson
larrywilson Veteran Member • Posts: 4,639
Re: 2 bad lens from B&H, what is the odd

I have several lens not Nikon made. The Zeiss's I have and the Tamron 90mm macro do just fine on my d3s. I think for me it is the output that manners, not so much a brand name.

Larry - smile

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Cope
Cope Veteran Member • Posts: 6,327
Re: 2 bad lens from B&H, what is the odd

It's a shame you didn't ask before sending the first one back. I noticed this with my first macro lens, but I asked on a couple of forums. Now B&H is out postage and a second lens, plus the cost of sending the first one back to Nikon.
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Windancer
Windancer Veteran Member • Posts: 5,345
Re: No bad lens from B&H, what is the odd

henryp wrote:

What should an ethical retailer do with this item?

Henry

I am really curious what answers you get on this one.........

Terry
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viclauyyc
viclauyyc OP Regular Member • Posts: 286
thanks everyone. I was wrong

thanks everyone.

Guess I should ask in forum first next time.

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Vic Lau at Calgary

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larrywilson
larrywilson Veteran Member • Posts: 4,639
Re: question was good

The question is not a bad question concerning max. f stop at various distances. It took me some study on various websites to find out the answer when I was hunting for a micro lens. Keep on coming back.

Larry

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gtblackwell
gtblackwell Contributing Member • Posts: 609
B&H is as ethical as they come.

I have no idea of how they handle such situations but I trust them to do the right thing. If I bought a new lens from them and they sent me the returned lens I would be fine with it. I feel sure they check out all returned lenses. Certainly all dealers have not earned this reputation.

GB
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